A bunch of pagans and wiccans are going to hold an event in my city tomorrow

Hi there!

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of Veeky Forums are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!

Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bait to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!

took you long enough

>How is that possible? To believe in blatant bullshit?
How is this any different than Christians rejecting actual historical analysis of the church and the gospels? Faith out ranks reason.

True

All religions start somewhere

And they're always mocked at first as lunatics

>beautiful church
>nice vestments
>reverent treatment of the blessed sacrament

I fail to see any problem here

LARPing us? How are they LARPing you? Are you a pagan?

Except that fact that Christianity had a spiritual lineage from Judaism whereas Wicca has none because they're nothing more than LARPers attempting to recreate pagan religions from books and taking rites from other traditions.

>taking rites from other traditions
So, in other words, they have a spiritual lineage.

As much as a dress sown of table cloth, window curtains, and towels could be called a dress

If you were to ask an observant Jew about whether or not Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of being the Messiah, they would be just about as dismissive. Without a more objective criteria than your personal distaste for them, those LARPers have as much a claim to a spiritual lineage as did Christians.

but it could still be made into a dress

Spiritual designations within an organized priesthood are extremely political, this is particularly true in Judaism. Jesus was a radical rabbi opposed to the priesthood so of course they don't consider him to be a Messiah.

> Without a more objective criteria than your personal distaste for them, those LARPers have as much a claim to a spiritual lineage as did Christians.

The founders of Christianity formed the faith within the framework of their existing spiritual traditions, which stretched for thousands of years, in fact they never saw themselves as separate from the rest of the Jewish community, circumstances and history made Christianity it's own separate faith. As a religion it's firm foundations were established through intellectual and theological debates on the nature of God, humanity and the soul. The religion has been alive for centuries and is still practiced today.

Now take a look at the LARPers, they're creating a religion out of thin air. Their spiritual traditions have been dead for a millenia, there's no direct lineage from the past to the present. All they have are books and observing the rites practiced by societies that still have shamanistic practices and/or polytheistic frameworks. And the hilarious thing is that they're trying to recreate the old pagan practices within the Christian world view because if you grew up in the West then your perception and how you interact with the world was molded by Christianity. They don't see the world the way the old pagans did and therefore cannot truly embrace the old pagan rites they wish to emulate.

I wonder why this kind of phenomenon is so present in England where they have like 1 pagan monument (yeah they also have a bunch of standing rocks/dolmen and a earth mounds but those aren't really that fit to this kind of "rituals"), but not in Egypt or here in Italy where we have all those Greek temples in Sicily and Nuragic structures in Sardinia

>They don't see the world the way the old pagans did and therefore cannot truly embrace the old pagan rites they wish to emulate.
Again, how is this any different from early Christians declaring that Jews who did not accept Jesus as the Messiah were simply fake Jews of the Synagogue of Satan, and modern Christians who dismiss Judaism as Pharaseeism (despite ignoring the actual histotical views of the Pharasees) and themselves as the true heirs to "Old Testament" tradition? You use words like "framework stretching thousands of years" for one, but when another group engages in the exact same behaviour you call it indirect lineage and impossible.

It's a uniquely Northern European phenomena. There are a very tiny minority of Greeks who have taken to worshiping the old pantheon but they're usually ultra-nationalists. Having met a lot of these so called "pagans" they're often social misfits and outcasts who have average to below average intelligence, and think they're smarter than they actually are.

And what don't you understand about a spiritual tradition being alive and practiced into the modern day? The same spiritual teachings being taught to the hill-folks in ancient Judea are still taught to this day in both Judaism and Christianity. The politics is nothing more than a straw man.

>christcucks on Veeky Forums a.k.a. the very manifestation of the Godhead's autism
>mocking and ridiculing others and calling them LARPers

Honestly, the only thing smaller than you christcuck's sincerity is your own self-awareness, which none of you retards possess. I have infinitely more respect for a druid at Stonehenge than I do for the fat NEET faggots you people are who endlessly boast about how incredibly Christian you are, without ever acting on the moral rules you demand others to follow. What a sorry, sad bunch of clowns you people are

for the fat NEET faggots you people are

>You disagree with me so you are le ebin fat neet xD

Go. Back. To. Reddit

>filename
kek

euphoric

>The same spiritual teachings being taught to the hill-folks in ancient Judea are still taught to this day in both Judaism and Christianity
Not at all. They very demonstrably changed, for example in the development of monotheism from monolatrianism which itself developed from polytheism.

>We also do LOTS of research its a faith with a fuck ton of homework
There's not enough evidence to actually reconstruct any european pagan religion and their rituals. All your "evidence" is basically Varg tier fiction. I don't mind people finding spirituality outside established religions, but that's not what neo pagans are doing right now. Instead they're trying to force their headcanon as truth and everyone else is just a poser.

>The same spiritual teachings being taught to the hill-folks in ancient Judea are still taught to this day in both Judaism and Christianity.

Not really.

Here, >pic related is a great example of a historical look at modern Christianity.
The Japanese Christians are just as oblivious of all the local additions as you are of yours.

Then tell me this, my autistic christcuck friend: when was the last time you helped poor people? Give me the specific time and date when you did something to help people in need. By the way, I take this literally, just like you take your stories about Jesus literally (that is, when it's convenient to you). When was the last time that you, in other words, not someone else, not you paying someone off the get out of your moral burden, you and only you, actually did something, that is not writing something on an anonymous board, not telling something to your friends, but actually physically moved your arms or legs, to help ease the suffering of those in need?

I'm going to make an educated bet that it was never, and that you will now redefined what the words "you" and the words "doing something" mean, probably to mean the exact opposite of what the actually mean, all to cover up that you don't have a moral fiber in your body, that you don't give a flying fuck about other people, and that all Christianity is for you is a stick to beat "immoral" people with, immoral people that you probably don't differ from at all.

Now, enlighten us all with your moral actions, or in your case, now make some shit up to hide the fact that you have never acted in line with your own morality and never will. Go.

>Wicca fag and modern pagans
>calling anyone a NEET faggot
>mfw

This whole modern pagan movement is nothing more than an impotent rebellion against the traditional dominant religion. Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, the various Hindu faiths, etc. are all REAL religions.

Dressing up like a bunch of faggots who are pissed off that their parents neglected them as children and performing a bunch rituals they got out of a book, does not make a religion especially if there's no theological foundation. Modern day paganism falls along the same line as Scientology or Mormonism, not a religion but a cult.

You understand perfectly the context of what I was talking about don't dance around the subject

>Christian off-shoot
>well this clearly represents the whole of Christianity

You're grasping straws.

This post gave me cancer

Typical wicca faggot reaction when backed into an intellectual corner starts spouting SJW-tier arguments.

Holy shit, this can't be real. There's no way anyone can be this gay.

>You understand perfectly the context of what I was talking abou
I don't, actually. As far as I can see, we have two religions claiming to extend back far beyond the point they actually do in order to establish their own legitimacy, falsely.

Wrong. There's evidence showing that Judaism did exist that far back even when the Jews were polytheistic as the priesthood of Yahweh existed in the pantheon.

Yes, the development of monolatrianism from polytheism would require some atencendant of the god worshipped in the latter within the context of the former. This in no way supports your statement that the Judaism taught in ancient Judea was identical to later versions.

What I said was that the spiritual teachings were the same. Of course Judaism is different now compared to the past because that's what happens with all living traditions but the fundamentals of the religion and how it interacts with the divine hasn't changed.

And neither of you answered my question, which proves my point. You call others LARPers, and then never live according to your own moral creed. Ecen thick as a brick christcucks like you must see the irony in this.

That is, if these two posts isn't Ælian having another Æutistic fit. By the way, hi Ælian, have you found a way not to be a tremendous Æutistic faggot yet? My guess is probably not

So a modern Christian interacting with the divine by feeling guilty and promising to the deity to not do something again is fundamentally the same as an ancient Jew needing to ritually purify themselves before producing a material sacrifice in order to avoid the immediate wrath of their deity?

And this why modern pagans are nothing more than fucking LARPers because none of you have the mental capacity to actual debate the merits of your so called "religion"

>implying i'm a christian

See unlike you I actually understand the nature of religion and the extremely important role it plays in human society. So the question boils down to this: what does paganism have to bring to the table? What's the point of recreating dead ideas that modern humans can't comprehend? Besides being an edgy contrarian movement that's a refuge for the fuck ups and rejects, what possible spiritual value could it add to society?

Are the superficial concepts the only knowledge you have of both? You're grasping at straws again.

Answer the question instead of "dancing around it."

I'm not dancing around it, I'm waving and dismissing it because it's a stupid question that doesn't need an answer. It's obvious that you don't even know the fundamentals of Judeo-Christian religions.

That is a very interesting dance you're engaging with.

But let's get to the actual point here. You say that the modern Christian and the ancient Judean traditions are equivalent, despite their obvious and manifold differences, because you personally believe in them. Meanwhile, the modern neo-pagan and the ancient actual pagan traditions are different because of their obvious and manifold differences, because you do not believe in them. And given that the only difference is your personal investment in one pseudo-tradition versus the other, we must conclude that you are either the objective arbiter of all religions or you are talking out of your ass and are confusing your personal biases with reality. If you can demonstrate a difference, do so.

Your mental gymnastics is annoying as are your points asinine. I've made my points perfectly clear, there's a direct spiritual lineage from Judaism to Christianity but all you can do to refute that is to point out the doctrinal differences when they both exist around the idea of God and how men should interact with the worldly and otherworldly. I doubt your cognitive bias will permit you to understand this fact, one set of beliefs established itself through rigorous study of religious texts, intellectual and theological debates the other set of beliefs is nothing more than a collection of stories, hearsay and misguided romanticism. Objectively the former holds more weight.

Most christians i know these days are larpers as well or they think larping is dumb so they dont go to any church events.

>I've made my points perfectly clear, there's a direct spiritual lineage from Judaism to Christianity
Actually, you have just asserted this in the face of me pointing out very severe differences between the two.
>I doubt your cognitive bias will permit you to understand this fact, one set of beliefs established itself through rigorous study of religious texts, intellectual and theological debates
Were this actually the foundation of Christianity, then scholars such as Ehrman who delve into the actual history of said debate would not be so reviled by believers. In fact, they would welcome such clarification.
>the other set of beliefs is nothing more than a collection of stories, hearsay and misguided romanticism
Both belief systems are actually exactly the same, "but I doubt your cognitive bias will allow you to understand this fact. "

>People discussing who is the truest LARPer

Christians for sure. I know some of them who stand up early every sunday to listen to the same old superhero stories.

Keep on with the mental gymnastics it won't give your LARPing anymore weight.

>then scholars such as Ehrman who delve into the actual history of said debate would not be so reviled by believers

This affirms my belief that you have no clue about either Judaism or Christianity save for what superficial knowledge you possess. Ehrman is an ex-evangelical with an ax to grind, who's knowledge of the Bible and Christianity comes from his evangelical background he's middling theological scholar at best. If you wanted to read actual criticism of early Christianity you could have done better.

>your LARPing anymore weight.
I'm a fedora-tipper. All LARP is equal.

>Ehrman is an ex-evangelical with an ax to grind
So display an error. You are curiously hesitant to do so, similar to how you were curiously hesitant to demonstrate how your modern Christianity and ancient Judaism were actually connected despite the differences. It seems like the only thing you have to fall back on is faith, which makes you no different from the LARPers you condemn.

>I'm a fedora-tipper.

That's even worst

>"So display an error."
>exaggerates the mistranslations and omissions in the bible
>thinks the NT should be tossed out because of it
>argues scriptures are flawed human work despite passages describing divine origin of scriptures
>greatly downplays the abilities of the literacy and writing abilities of the average scribe
>thinks that ancient men were drooling retards in want of intelligent

His work is pompous as it is cringeworthy

>demonstrate how your modern Christianity and ancient Judaism were actually connected despite the differences.

This is where your education failed you. Even a child knows the similarities and differences between the two.

I said display an error, not air your grievences. Show a specific conclusion that is incorrect, by specific evidence.

>Even a child knows the similarities and differences between the two.
So there are differences? Show how these differences are less severe than those between legitimate paganism and the modern reconstruction. Remember, you claimed that the original adherents would find modern neo-paganism very alien to theit beliefs, but Judaism historically also found Christianity very alien to their beliefs.

crash their LARP in full Teutonic gear

>Do they legitimately believe this shit or are they LARPing us?
You could ask the same from anyone who goes to church.

For us indo-European peoples there's no question of being or not being polytheists (actually henotheists), no more than we can choose to be lactose intolerant, or a bird can convert and become a fish. Even if we were to become hard core Muslims, the gods would reappear all over again in the form of a saint, an angel, a "son of God"... It's embedded in our collective unconscious.

>capitalizing every instance of heathenry
Faggot.

cracked.com/article_19283_7-ancient-forms-mysticism-that-are-recent-inventions.html

oh and wicca is horseshit too

cracked.com/article_18510_6-supposedly-ancient-traditions-that-totally-arent.html

That bitch is wearing a leopard print coat. Where were fucking Leopards in Early Britain.

Also, aren't Pagans supposed to be recreating pre-Christian practices? What the fuck are they doing at a pre-celtic site?

>Do they legitimately believe this shit

Do Christians?

Jesus christ shut the fuck up you moron

Wow, what well thought out argument to refute me, I'm stunned by your intelligence.

While I can't speak for everyone, I personally try my best to be objective, open minded, and generally just willing to listen. There are types that yeah just try to force their opinion on others, but that's not everyone. Let people say as they will, I have found a peace, and contentment in this, so I'll continue with what I'm doing.