I'm done

This is tricky but what I can say is that 20 BTC will seem like an enormous amount if you are wiped out and at zero for a few weeks. $20K is also about how much you need to safely refuel with a smart alt coin position.

I posted this thread because it's a good lesson

Ironically, this guy _did_ his research, deemed DASH a shitcoin, shorted it heavily. The problem is, when you short, you need to buy it first.

Hundreds, if not thousands of traders shorted DASH, driving the price _up_ (counter-intuitively).

>double down and margin trade Doge coin
Picture related
I only margin trade with minimal amounts
It's gambling

>20 BTC will seem like an enormous amount
He used the 20 BTC to short DASH even more and lost again, kek.

>trading crypto on margin
I will never understand this, crypto is risky and volatile as is, no need to compound the risk further.

YOLO

People who use margin don't understand about position sizing and risk management (some version of Kelly formula). It's the same reason why Forex eats up mothersfuckers (100x margin possible).

>He worked for years to get to 150 BTC, then lost it all in days.
Incorrect. The total margin value is 150 BTC, but his/her investment is approx 30 BTC (20%)

But due to his failure, his 30 BTC gamble has cost him all of that, plus he now owes the poloniex team 120 BTC

Wrong. That's not how it works. Exchanges don't allow people to "owe them money". That is what a margin call and forced liquidation is.

Yes, that was partly wrong.
He explains this was only the last margin call, after repeated liquidations. The original net value was >50 BTC.

>he now owes the poloniex team 120 BTC
No, Poloniex always liquidates before the lender loses anything.

youtube.com/watch?v=O-OPWUg26LU

i will have a look at this if i lose my first 500e crypto investment

J U S T
U
S
T

margin trading Bitcoin is fun.

10x on OKCoin isn't even that bad if you're not a retard and employ some moderate risk management and position sizing.

I've made far, far more on relatively small BTC amounts than I ever would have trading spot

>Trading an already volatile instruments on margin
The way to make money is to take out margin on instruments which have very low volatility and medium returns.

What is margin trading desu????

Is it like gambling??

It's trading with more money than you have, borrowing from the exchange like a loan.

wow why would anyone do that

Greed and hopium.

Because western society has been indoctrinated to include lending in every facet of life

now be a good goy and go build your credit score

To bet bigger on smaller market movements

It only takes one bad trade to fuck your over if you're leveraged to the hilt. Most people don't use stop losses and refuse to take a loss.

Yeah well you become more sensitive to movements, that's up to the individual, good lesson from OP though

No thats not how shorting works. When you short something you sell it. You only buy it back LATER. Not first.

The shorters were overwhelmed by a much greater number of people longing, so they lost their money when they got margin called later on (and had to buy).

>It's trading with more money than you have
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP

What are you going on about? Trying to imply using margin isn't about borrowing from the exchange and trading with money that isn't yours?

Found the moron.

HAHAHAHAHAHHA
B
T
F
O

Incorrect poloniex does go negative or below your initial margin value. Therefor he started with far more than 20 btc because poloniex auto liquidates below 20% margin and there is only max 2.5 times what you initially put in.

He most likely kept adding until his input was 150 btc but lost it all from auto liquidations with remaining 20 btc.

You're literally wrong though and you don't understand shorting.

Shorting means to borrow an asset, then sell it immediately, then buy it back again later and return it back to the person you bought it from.
If you never end up getting rid of your short position, all you've done is buy the asset. Thus the price goes up.

Shorting isn't worth it. The maximum you can make is 100% (if the coin crashes to 0). When you buy the profit potential is unlimited. Plus, you have to pay interest on the margin. To each their own though.

Im always confused about shorting

I thought shorting meant selling at 200 and buying at 100

but apparently shorting implies a margin position where you make money as the price goes down and you may lose all of your money or even go in debt if it goes up.

Shorting is:
>Borrowing coins from exchange (margin)
>Selling the coins now
>Buying them back later
>If you buy back cheaper you made money
>If you buy more at a higher price you lose money
>Profits are limited to 100%
>Losses are unlimited (except by margin call)

buy more = buy back*

>things poor people say

Is correct. Extremely risky, especially on volatile currencies such as crypto. You can go anyway from doubling your money or losing it all.

>Losses are unlimited
>(except by margin call)

Except? That's the only case you fucking, it's either margin call loss or less. i.e. Losses are limited to 100% or less, depending on the policy of the exchange.

Tbh you sound like a bagholder scared someone's might go and short your shitcoin of choice. Is it DASH or ETH?

Obviously. I was just describing the fundamental structure behind shorting. If margin calls weren't there, you could go into the negative, infinitely.

I was trying to stress the point that shorting limits your upside. Buying is the smarter choice with crypto, because you can make more than 100%, and 100% gains happen all the time and over short time spans.

Thanks for the insults though. They are cute. Makes me want to suck your dick. You down?

>yadayada

That's a long way of saying 'Hey guy I'm just another shilling prick'. Talking like over-100% swings are a normal thing.

>hey look this recently pumped shitcoin is obviously overvalued and the pump petered out, better go long because it """could""" more than double in value

t. no one ever

Your right. Keep on believing, brother. You are fighting the good fight.

>smart alt coin position

You don't borrow from the exchange to initiate a short, and thus the price doesn't move up.
That's done using a separate lending market where people can lend their Bitcoin and shitcoins. So if you wanna short, you (automatically or manually, both possible) lend some Shitcoin (when you go short, you need Shitcoin to sell... to buy back lower, later - hopefully) or BTC (in case you go long, you need BTC to buy Shitcoin which you can sell higher if it goes up).

So, shorting the shitcoin doesn't move up the price of the shitcoin, because you lend it on a completely separated market.

Woke up to this email today. It was all a bluff. My margin is back well above maintenance and nothing was touched.
Although, shorting shitcoins
whooooo
talk about your emotional rollercoasters. Definately not worth it unless you have bigs nuts and zero brains. And make a profit.

he could have just as easily set a buy stop limit 1% above his initial short as he could have set a sell stop limit below an initial long. His whole spiel about "never short" is completely missing the point. he was undisciplined because he thought he had a sure thing, so he believed he didn't need to bother. Hubris was his downfall.

Seconding this.

You don't want to be margin trading something that can move 20% in 5 minutes on margin. Not only do you not need to, it's fucking retarded.
If you're going to do it you absolutely -must- have a stop loss set.

>Talking like over-100% swings are a normal thing.
They happen like every other day on polo you dumb faggot

How do I short shitcoins? Can I do that on yobit?