Hey Veeky Forums

after 30 days the $ has a new paper trail-
your account.

beyond that they don't much care where it came from.

And what are the consequences if you're caught and already acquired a home?

to avoid laundering charges you'd want your friends to be willing to testify though.

the IRS and your bank may be ok but the FBI might get curious.

Well I am still speaking hypothetically but what if the money was all mine, however it is just cash I have saved over yeaaars of working as a bartender and it was unreported income

At the moment I officially make just over 30k gross so in this situation I would not want to get put in fucking prison for all this so I was wondering if people I knew who would have no problem doing so said they were gifting me this money would I be good to go or would I get al caponed

fraud charges, prison, bankruptcy, foreclosure.

it probably depends on whether or not you're posting from a proxy right now and don't mind shredding the device you're posting from.

you're talking felony tax evasion after all. Conspiracy, fraud.

Like I said it is only a hypothetical.

Like how do drug dealers and stuff get their hands on huge ass houses and stuff without reporting their income? Or what does someone do with money they have just saved up and have a lot of?

I would pay taxes on it I just do not want to get fucked in the ass, I do not know if it is possible to pay taxes on mattress money

Oh shit you said hypothetically! Alright let's go Johnson we can't get him now. Have you heard of money laundering? That's how drug dealers have huge houses.

>how do drug dealers and stuff get their hands on huge ass houses and stuff without reporting their income
I could tell you but I'd risk prison for the kindness.
> I do not know if it is possible to pay taxes on mattress money
of course it is.
you think the IRS is going to say, "no, we don't want your money?"

you just file an amended return and claim your income. Pay taxes, interest and penalties on it.
Yes, they're going to rape you for lying.

Lol. If anyone brings up money laundering in university finance courses, then the FBI storms in the class and arrests everyone.

irl you shouldn't get into university if you're not smart enough to work it out on your own.

What kind of form do I fill out to say hey I have thousands of dollars in cash that has just been saved up for years since I pay for most everything using a credit card and let the cash I ever get just sit there?

I mean do I just pay the taxes on the 50k and say oops? Then walk away with less than 50k but a clean record?

>What kind of form do I fill out
amended return for tax year (whatever years you made the dosh)
>Then walk away with less than 50k but a clean record?
they don't (usually) put you in prison for coming clean.

But how do you go about doing that for income that has been accruing for over a decade? It is not like I remember what years I got lucky at a casino, sold a vehicle or other crap on craigslist, won a bet from a friend etc

the easiest way is to call the IRS and ask them.

some helpful lady named LawShawnda will help you estimate when you gained cash and how much you owe. Then LawShawnda will help you work out a payment plan and submit your first payment and the next 347 payments after.

desu your first plan would probably work. I just don't personally do fraud because I have more to lose.

What does that have to do with anything. The point is you can't get arrested for knowing how to money launder. You can only get arrested for money laundering.

Drug dealers open cash businesses as a front and fake income from said cash businesses so they can pay income tax on their dirty money which then makes it clean, they don't avoid tax they just have enough profits that they are actually trying to pay tax on their money to make it seem that it has come from a legitimate business

>You can only get arrested for money laundering.

or telling someone how to money launder if they then proceed to money launder. That's also a crime. In your fantasy the prof would be arrested along with the student if someone took his advice.

Making say an extra 3k a month in tips probably is not enough to bother opening a fake business to launder it all I would imagine

Absolutely ludicrous law, if true.

>It's usually illegal in the US to borrow a down payment.
It's not illegal, it's just universally against bank lending practices. It not only impairs the creditworthiness of the mortgagee (having more loans to pay back is bad), it also create potential competing mortgages on the property. You won't go to jail for it, but you will default on your mortgage if you try to sneak it by.

take this faggot for example:
He hasn't committed a crime.

but if OP takes his advice and launders money his stupid ass can go to prison too.

teaching people to steal has it's own risks

>you will default on your mortgage if you try to sneak it by
my banker said it's fraud (Colorado). Lying on a loan application.

I have no idea if that's true or not, I've never tried it.

So they can arrest the cast and crew of The Wire?

them and all of Wikipedia!

the law isn't fair or just. You don't want to be on the wrong side of it. Wikipedia does things that would land me in prison.

>my banker said it's fraud (Colorado). Lying on a loan application.
Civil fraud, not criminal. And obviously that hinges on whether you made an untrue statement on the loan forms.

Also, your statements about criminal complicity are ridiculous overbroad and mostly untrue. In order to be criminally culpable for teaching someone something that aids in the commission of a crime, you have to have actual or constructive knowledge that they intend to use that information to commit a crime. We don't put people in jail for thought crimes, only actual crimes.

>Wikipedia does things that would land me in prison.
Just stop. You sound like a moron.

Laundering money implies you are going to pay tax to legitimize the money while OP is trying to avoid taxes. Laundering legal money that's been taxed before being recieved and will be taxed again after is just pointless.

That's a good point. We should be talking about tax evasion, not money laundering.

>We should be talking about tax evasion
It's not even tax evasion, under OP's original post. The recipient of a gift owes no tax. It's the donor, not the donee, that owes tax (if any).

Now unless OP's friends happen to have already used up their $5 million lifetime gift exemption, they'd owe no tax. There's also no need for the friends to file gift tax returns since the amount ($10K) is under the $14,000 threshold.

tl;dr not illegal, no taxes, IRS doesn't care

But you will have to tell your bank and likely you'll have to provide a gift affidavit from your friend proving that the money was a gift not a loan.

the problem is the jury.

If OP launders money based on advice from user the jury would decide if someone helped him.

I have the ability to advise OP in money laundering or tax evasion so a jury might indeed find me guilty of conspiring. Wikipedia and others have no such personal interest in OP.

Yeah but what if the gift is actually a loan (which it is, let's be honest). This is not a finance and law question, this is an ethical question.

Turns out this thread had no reason for existing. Thanks friend.

>this is an ethical question.
except if OP claims it as a loan he won't get the bank loan.

Of course. He will have to be deceitful and corrupt his soul. Is it worth it?

For a conspiracy charge I would have to do more than just explain how drug dealers launder money. I would have to aid OP in his endeavor and there would have to communication records as well as actual evidence of """"both""" of us attempting or actually carrying out our very specific plans. E.g if I told OP he should buy knee pads and suck dicks to get rich I don't think I would get conspiracy to commit prostitution, however if me and OP have text messages lining up clients and they have receipts of OP buying knee pads then they would maybe have something, you guys are paranoid for no reason.

and my argument is no.

It's easier and less risky to pay taxes on your income and get credit for it.

>the problem is the jury
Friend, I know you mean well, but just stop, One of us has a law degree and one of doesn't. Maybe the one without the law degree should stop giving bad legal advice?

>Yeah but what if the gift is actually a loan (which it is, let's be honest). This is not a finance and law question, this is an ethical question.
First, no issues with the IRS. The only tax issue is whether the friends charge a market rate of interest. If not, the spread would be considered a gift. But this isn't really the problem here...

If it's actually a loan, then OP is going to be hot water with the bank. He'll have signed papers saying it was a gift, and that he received no loans. If these are lies, then he's in default on his mortgage and that could go sideways fast.

Or not. If the mortgage gets paid on time, the bank may never know.

In a perfect world you're right.

this isn't a perfect world. You'll be judged by 12 of your peers and one judge. Historically individuals don't fare well under that construct.

there is nothing to gain and much to lose by telling OP how to build a pipe bomb, rob a bank, or evade taxes.

>One of us has a law degree and one of doesn't
fuck off Matt.

you're all of 16 years old, live in a car, and make Veeky Forums videos for a living.

So if the money from friends, he intends to pay back, but at no interest, then it is considered a gift and not a loan? And the bank would be okay or not with this?

Thanks for the info

Nice time on that post

So if each friend were to sign a document saying it is a gift with no expectation of being paid back, and they each gave me 10 grand in cold hard cash... no one is going to give a shit or ask them where it came from after I made the 50k deposit in my bank account?

Can you tell me the difference between a C corp and LLC

kek'd again

Has to do with wearing veils and getting piercings.

The funny part is, money laundering isn't tax evasion. I've said to OP how drug dealers operate. I haven't told him what he should or shouldn't do. But this whole thread is pointless as pointed out by
There are boards on the interwebs with ""much"" less anonymity that teach you how to commit fraud for shit like beverages or headphones.

>money laundering isn't tax evasion
indeed.

both answer OP's question and both are felonies.

the obvious answer is pay your fucking taxes and get loans without fraud, money laundering, or tax evasion.

>For a conspiracy charge
It's complicity, not conspiracy. Also known as "aiding and abetting."

Conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit a crime. Similar, I guess, but different.

>You'll be judged by 12 of your peers
What about the states that don't have 12 member juries, kid? What about the civil trials without juries? Just stop talking about thing that are way beyond your knowledge.

>So if the money from friends, he intends to pay back, but at no interest, then it is considered a gift and not a loan?
Complex question, honestly. To keep it simple, at law, it'd be considered a valid loan. However to the IRS, it's probably a loan, but the friend's failure to collect a market rate of interest would be considered a gift. So if the loan *should* have accrued $1200 interest (for example) and OP only pays back the $10K original amount, then the friend is considered to have gifted OP $1200.

>So if each friend were to sign a document saying it is a gift with no expectation of being paid back, and they each gave me 10 grand in cold hard cash... no one is going to give a shit or ask them where it came from after I made the 50k deposit in my bank account?
The bank will want to know, because the bank will want to confirm for themselves that it's truly a gift not a loan. They may ask the friends to sign a form document called a "gift affidavit" that legal binds them to never recollect the money from you. And/or they may require that the money sit in your account for some period of time, to prove that its really your funds and not some temporary bamboozle.

Also, while it *shouldn't* prevent you from getting the mortgage if you're up front about it with the bank, it doesn't look good from an underwriting perspective. If your creditworthiness is marginal, not being able to come up with your own deposit from your own salary/wages looks bad.

>What about the civil trials without juries?
not really a problem with the IRS, FBI, or your local police force.

banks aren't going to bring civil suit when you've broken the law. That's a criminal matter.

>FBI
So now the FBI gets involved in mortgage applications? LOL. Funny stuff, junior.

>banks aren't going to bring civil suit when you've broken the law
1. They're going to bring a civil suit against you when they don't get repaid, which is the only time any of this matters anyway. Duh.

2. Exactly what law is being broken in OP's hypothetical? Go ahead and cite it. I'll wait.

It is not about the loan itself I have enough proof of income to show I can make payments it is more just making sure I have a big enough down payment to avoid a much higher interest rate or some sort of awful loan insurance that I would be paying on top of everything else

>Go ahead and cite it. I'll wait.
every single state and municipality has a fraud law on the books. I can't cite millions of laws that say the same thing.

>To keep it simple, at law, it'd be considered a valid loan
So how would banks view this? Would he have to lie and just say the money is a gift and isn't going to be paid back?

unless you want to argue that what OP proposes isn't criminal fraud?

I'll wait....

Trust me, you're not the first person to borrow a portion of their down payment. It happens all the time. Unlike what that other faggot keeps saying, this isn't a crime and the FBI isn't going to knock down your door.

Be careful about the advice you listen to on the internet, especially on legal matters. There's lots of kooks who give shitty advice based on too many episodes of Law and Order.

>this isn't a crime
it's fraud. and tax evasion.
>the FBI isn't going to knock down your door
true. Op is unlikely to get caught.

>this isn't a crime
Still, there is red tape surrounding it, right? Does the OP have to weasel around with his words?

>Does the OP have to weasel around with his words?
he does.

that's where it becomes loan fraud.

if he went in and said he evaded taxes it wouldn't be fraud.

>Gee guise, I wonder if dumping 50K cash into a checking account will throw up red flags
>p-please advices kthx
This thread is like the plot for those shitty shows late on night on local TV. We'll call this one Worlds Dumbest Criminals Vol. 3: Internet Autism

>unless you want to argue that what OP proposes isn't criminal fraud?
>I'll wait....
It's not. Dumbass.

>Would he have to lie and just say the money is a gift and isn't going to be paid back?
You're assuming something not in the OP, which is that it's actually a bunch of loans and OP is going to lie about it. He doesn't say that.

But if they are actually loans then he's not going to get a mortgage. No bank will give a residential mortgage if any portion of the purchase price is borrowed funds.

Or he can lie about it and risk the consequences.

>
>>this isn't a crime
>it's fraud. and tax evasion.
No it's not. I've already explain why both these statement are false. Go read the thread, kid.

>Does the OP have to weasel around with his words?
No. If his friends gift him the money, then there are forms that need to signed and disclosures that have to be made,

People do this every day, for hundreds of years. Usually the loans come from family members (parents often help their children with the down payment), but a loan is a loan.

The other user is just showboating for attention. There's no crimes, no tax issues, and no FBI raids. Think about it.

>It's not. Dumbass.
lying on your loan application about where you got your down payment isn't loan fraud?

you're a hell of a lawyer.

>lying on your loan application about where you got your down payment isn't loan fraud?
Show me where OP said he was going to lie on his loan application, retard...

I'll wait ....

>If his friends gift him the money
he said that's not true.

Well in my hypothetical scenario above I said the money would be mine and I would be just using my friends to be the buffer, they would sign forms saying that they each gave me an amount as a gift with no expectation on return. Then I put the money which was mine anyway in the bank with the forms showing it is a gift.

Would the irs not be curious how each freind had 10k in cash to just gift to me? And go ask them questions?

I think that would be the part everyone is hung up on

>Show me where OP said he was going to lie on his loan application, retard...
>however it is just cash I have saved over yeaaars of working as a bartender and it was unreported income

>Would the irs not be curious how each freind had 10k in cash to just gift to me? And go ask them questions?
your bank would be curious if anyone was.

Right. OP never says it. But I think it's clear, by reading between the lines, that getting $10k from 5 friends means he intends to pay them back. And he wants to keep his mouth closed about it.

>Right. OP never says it

No he didn't, faggot.

(OP)
>if I had 5 friends gift me 10k cash
(OP)
>each friend signed some kind of form saying they gift me this money

He specifically says -- TWICE -- that its a gift. In two separate posts he reiterates that its a GIFT, not a loan.

See, when you're a lawyer, you learn to actually READ what people write. The details are important.

This is why people like you should never give legal advice. You're functionally retarded.

>But I think it's clear, by reading between the lines, that getting $10k from 5 friends means he intends to pay them back
You're making assumptions that run contrary to OP's actual statements. Regardless, I've already explained what would happen if OP is lying about this. At this point, I think I've covered the bases.

>No he didn't, faggot
"hypothetically"

which won't stand in court and we both know it.

not that it matters, OP won't get his loan taking your advice anyways. Because his "friends" aren't going to risk prison or an IRS audit over his shit or yours.

Are you implying the 10k loaned to you by your friends hasn't been taxed upon them receiving that money?

There's nothing wrong with making assumptions, and creating a new hypothetical situation. This isn't a court case. I am just curious.

>"hypothetically"
As in "it hasn't happened yet but if we do it this way what are the consequences?"

Do you know what the word "hypothetically" means? Protip: it doesn't mean "change the meaning of the words." Dumbass.

Rereading this post I see what you're doing now, however I can tell you just to imagine being in your friends shoes in your plot and you will see it just won't work.

Yeah you learn to read. And you also learn to be willfully blind to unstated things that you know are likely true. Thanks for the info though.

>"it hasn't happened yet but if we do it this way what are the consequences?"
exactly right.

but when it does happen op spends a year in prison and is a convicted felon for live and you get to keep on pretending to be a lawyer.

>There's nothing wrong with making assumptions, and creating a new hypothetical situation. This isn't a court case. I am just curious
And that's why I didn't insult you, and answered your questions to the best of my ability. Nothing wrong with being curious.

I never have a problem with people asking legal questions. It's only the morons who try to give legal advice about subjects when they're clearly ignorant that cause issues.

In this hypothetical they would be fully on board to sign the papers but I suppose it may not be worth the trouble no matter how much I want said house.

>It's only the morons who try to give legal advice about subjects when they're clearly ignorant that cause issues.
lying on your loan ap about where you got your down payment isn't fraud?

say it isn't, mr. lawyer.

According to you, it's illegal for me to give advice over the internet. Also, I seem to recall that you claimed that I was your lawyer.

Freak.

>it's illegal for me to give advice over the internet.
not illegal, just civil liability. As you yourself say.

they'd have to find you to sue you though.
I can probably help with that.

And once again, you move the goalposts to claim some strawman argument that OP never made. Your posts belong in the trash.

You know a lot about trash, don't you Mr. Janitorfag? Isn't it time for your wife's pre-pre breakfast? Or are she and kids on one of your lavish vacations to Cracker Barrell?

>some strawman
see
OP said he was going to commit fraud.
I'm not going to insult you for missing that.
I don't expect you to read the entire thread.

>lavish vacations to Cracker Barrell?
We're still booked for Cabo in a couple weeks.

I'll post pics just for you.

>OP said he was going to commit fraud.
No he didn't. He said the exact opposite. Show your wife the thread and ask her. She looks like the lawyerly type.

This is true. OP said:

>The money is under-the-table mattress money
>Give to friends
>Friends gift it to him
>Now he has legit money

>He said the exact opposite.
you know people can read the thread, right?

The issue is that, what would you do if you ""anonymously"" recieved 10k. There would be questions of where the money came from and the government would want their piece.

Protip: if they don't deposit the money and it's all in cash spent for living expenses like food etc

I love my wife and I love it when you post her face.

it's not an insult. I adore that girl.
just like I adore my kids that you love to call retarded.

carry on, private.

Are the other user samefagging? Because you're turning into a massive retard.

>The money is under-the-table mattress money

Cute, except OP never said that, asshole. He ACTUALLY said:

>just mattress money that they have saved over years in cash from small things here and there like a win at a casino or selling something on craigslist

Now unless winning money in a casino or selling things on Craiglist is suddenly illegal, you can fuck right off.

I'm out. Between having to look at that picture and the current level of discourse in this thread, I'm nauseated.

>Now unless winning money in a casino or selling things on Craiglist is suddenly illegal, you can fuck right off.
he said unreported income from bartending.
>Between having to look at that picture and the current level of discourse in this thread, I'm nauseated.
the picture of my wife you saved on your computer and posted itt?

kek.
if it nauseates you don't post it, jackass!
you are seriously retarded.