Turks, Turkish, Asians ?

Osman's ancestors being of the pure Turkic stock doesn't mean his successors were too.

Of course not, friend.

With all the balkan sluts we got from the blood tax for our harems, all the scandinavian/irish women from the corsair raids and our taste in circassians sluts, I am ashamed to admit that we would have some irregulars amongst the royal bloodline, and overall population.

But atleast every Turkic man at the time was a happy camper.

Turks are islamizated byzantines, from turkic they have only language

>tfw you will never be a Turkic Warrior with a harem full of greek qts
Why even live?

>Turkic Warrior
Keksikus maximus

Not being a turkroach > having a harem

>greek
>qt
nice try my heavily indebted friend

And culture.

t. Visited Turkey, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Mongolia and Xinjiang

>Xinjiang
For what purpose? The daily chink opression of Uyghurs?

>we pretty much wiped out the ethnic population

Nope you assimilated them

China tour included Xinjiang. I liked it.

Don't try to reason with turkroaches logic and reason is beyond their grasp

DELET THIS

After effect of our harems, mass migration of Circassians, crypto-georgians and the fact that eastern Anatolia is filled with filthy k*rds, friend.
Funny, I get the same impression from people that argue against the history of my own people, or kurds.

"Turk" isn't an ethnicity, anatolian turks and especially central asian turks are literally the most mixed people in the world. Turk ethnocentrism is the most retarded form of nationalism ever

Lol dude i visit Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kirgyzia and Turkey, and i can say Turkey dont have turkic steppe culture

And dont forget that uzbeks not real nation

...

>After effect of our harems,

This map show Y haplogroup, thus it is the male lineages only, and not the women.

With the historical,context of Turkey, the haplogroups there must come from :

R1B Hittites + Gauls + Armenians + Franks
J2 Persians + Anatolians + Greeks
J1 Arabs
E3 Greeks
L Gypsies
R1A Slavs + Goths
I Scandinavians + Germans
G Caucasians
C Turks + Mongols
N Turks
O3 Huns
Q Turks
P Turks
H Gypsies
K Turks
The more mysterious is A which is basically Proto-nigger, i literally can't fathom how they went there.

I guess everyone else would seem unreasonable to the unreasonable.

Because turk used to be an insult in the ottoman empire for the dumb presents in Anatolia. If you called someone a turk it was a huge insult. That only changed when the ottoman empire started to collapse in the 1800s And the elite noticed the only people that supported them were the same people they were making fun of for hundreds of years

Not only is it entirely ahistorical, but it is also literally impossible for the Turks to have wiped out all of the local inhabitants and resettled the land while still keeping it that productive within the timeframe they had. It was a continuous shift. Saying "We wiped out all the anatolians so now all the Turks are PURE DESCENDANTS of the ANCIENT NOBLE TRIBES" is horseshit especially if you've ever seen what an actual central asian person looks like.

Also, logistically speaking, the fact that Turkish noblemen stole Balkan women for a few hundred years and brought Balkan boys to serve as elite soldiers in the capital doesn't account for the fact that dirty goat farmers in the rural hinterland of Central Anatolia have similar genetics. There would be a very big difference otherwise. Native human populations tend to form a genetic continuum, and if there had been a resettling of a totally genetically different group, like in America or South Africa, you would see a much bigger difference. All evidence points towards assimilation.

The Turks merely assimilated the Anatolian Greek population, which itself had only recently been formed from the Byzantine assimilation of native Anatolian peoples such as the Hittites. These recent converts didn't really feel Greek so they didn't put up opposition to the religion, language, and customs of the new invaders.

J2 is also quite prevalent in Southwestern Turkic groups, especially Oghuz Turks who intermingled with Indo-Europeans and passed through Iran before coming to Anatolia. Which makes the whole haplogroup thing pointless

>Because turk used to be an insult in the ottoman empire for the dumb presents in Anatolia.

Not true, plenty of soldier caste specifically referred themselves as Turks. You are talking about one anecdotal evidence from a Brit who probably called a city-dwelling Greek or Armenian a Turk, who was more trying to make a point about society in England anyway.

Turks in North Africa and Balkans called themselves Turks.

Morever shift from an Ottoman identity to a Turkish one was caused by lose of territory in Balkans and North Africa when the Young Turks realised that there was no multi-ethnic empire to be had.

There is a lot of bullshit about use of term "Turk" in Ottomans by mixing reality with basically saying "Turk was an insult even in Ottoman!" from people who hate Turks. The reality was Ottomans didn't consider themselves Turks, you were a Muslim Ottoman or not, the rest didn't really matter but plenty of people used term "Turk" as a self-identifier, especially in conquered territories. Obviously there was a clash of rural people and urban people, a lot of urban populations were Greeks or Armenian Muslims, calling them "Turk" would insult them because they would associate with being rural.

Of course steppe culture wouldn't be prevalent among Turks because it's prevalent in basically nowhere. It's been a lot since Turkics (including Turks) left their nomadic lifestyle. There's no point in putting nomadic steppe lifestyle argument forward when talking about culture because it doesn't count as an argument since Turkics aren't fucking nomads anymore. But if we're going to talk about village-culture in Turkey and other Turkic countries, welp, it's the fucking same. Both in terms of traditions and daily life.

Also, look up for the Yorrucks or Yoruks.

>Meanwhile in Anatolia we pretty much wiped out the ethnic population
>Le invasion = le wipe out
/pol/ logic.

The Ottoman Turks were an empire. They werent out to create some sort of ethnic mustard race, they just wanted to rule over shit.

To that end, shitloads of Anatolians found themselves as Ottoman subjects whom, over time, got absorbed into the cultures of their masters given that they live smack in the heartland of Ottomania.

It is more of a language issue really.

By that logic, all of the Middle East should be turkic because from the 1000s up to the 1800s, there is no major Arab ruler at all in the Middle East. It was always some Turkic cunt who arrived alongside the Seljuks and a smattering of Mirzas/Beys/Khans ruled what is now considered Arab land

>You are talking about one anecdotal evidence from a Brit who probably called a city-dwelling Greek or Armenian a Turk, who was more trying to make a point about society in England anyway.
It isn't when the Ottoman Ruling Class spoke Persian & Classical Arabic, called themselves first and foremost, Padishah, and rarely spoke Turkish unless it is talking to plebs.

It was very common for Steppenigger Dynasties to abandon their native culture save for the military aspects of it that won the Empire in the first place. You saw it every fucking time from China to Turkey.

In China, Nurhacis dream of a Manchu empire died when by Yongzheng, the Manchus werent interested in keeping even their language and called their Empire China, with them as Qing Subjects. As far as Manchus were concerned the conquest of China pretty much made them Chinese, bearing the mandate of heaven and ergo heirs of that Empire. Despite this, their military is organized around the traditional 8 Banners, albeit with every army now a Chinese style army.

Babur and his followers saw themselves as Timurid Persianate Aristocrats. They absolutely loathed both their Turkic & Mongol blood. If you have to to point out their lineage to their faces, they would give you their dynastic heritage instead of their ethnic (Babur: "My dad was Timurid, my mom was Chaghatai."). They have seen their native cousins and pretty much did not want to associate with them. Hell the reason why Babur invaded India in the first place was to run away from the fucking Uzbek niggers that took his fiefdom in Transoxania. Despite this, they were still pretty cavalry centric and the organization of their armies was organized in the traditional tumenlar system of Central Asia.

A well known Ottoman Scholar whose name escapes me termed this phenomena "leashed barbarism." That while the ruling class saw themselves as muh enlightened, they would tap to the martial culture of their forebears when needed.

That doesn't square with the fact that the Ottoman armies were basically like every other Muslim army at the time, and did not really retain any Steppe characteristics at all.

The Padishah also called himself Khan and Sultan. Plus Persian was language of literature and Arabic language of science but Ottoman was the language of the rulers and bureaucracy. People also spoke Ottoman with varying degrees of influence, a random urban Ottoman's language would be much more "clear" than a heavily invested writer. You can see this in works of chroniclers and travellers, Ottoman was the spoken language and the lingua franca within the empire, while Persian and Arabic was elitist, comparable to Greek and Latin in Europe.

It's true that there was a lot of elitism around language within the empire and Turkish itself was not seen as prestigious compared to Persian or Arabic, understandably so as well but most people still spoke it and Ottoman was not a standard language at all. It's comparable to English in which the language is Germanic in structure and origin but the more complex you speak the more French, Latin and Greek you incorporate to the language.

Also again what the dynasty considered themselves doesn't reflect most of the population, be it bureaucratic elite, the soldiers or urban populations. The situation of "hatred against Turks" is overplayed by Turkish nationalists and people who hate Turks both to create a narrative that Turks were hated under Ottomans to justify different viewpoints. If Turks were so hated under Ottoman Empire, the local elite, even of non-Turkish origin, in North Africa and Balkans wouldn't identify as Turks. More so, Spahi wouldn't make a claim they are superior to Janissary because they are of Turkish heritage.

How ethnic identity worked and its complexity under a multi-ethnic Empire is completely different than the more simple national lines drawn, usually because of nationalistic reasons. For example word "Arab" meant Bedouin and denoted a class of nomads, people in Palestine were called Palestinians, Syria Syrians so on and so forth, yet Arabic was considered a prestigious language.

>They absolutely loathed both their Turkic & Mongol blood. If you have to to point out their lineage to their faces, they would give you their dynastic heritage instead of their ethnic (Babur: "My dad was Timurid, my mom was Chaghatai."). They have seen their native cousins and pretty much did not want to associate with them

Because the concept of "Turkic" is a relatively new term and so is nationalism? Especially amongst rulers and specially amongst nomadic people who identified with their family and not with an "ethnicity" or a "nation". Do you think the nobles in Europe identified with the common plebs or with their ancestry and dynasty? Aristocracy often identified with foreign aristocracy more than the plebs of their own nation in Europe too, see the French revolution.

You are applying concepts of ethnicity and nationality retroactively.

borders, continents, and race are more or less arbitrary divisions that serve only organisational purposes, and are ill suited to address issues of identity.

>You are applying concepts of ethnicity and nationality retroactively.
Except you're implying that such identities ended with the rulers & the nobility.

While the plebs pretty much participated as well. Since the dynasty was seen as the protector of the realm, they too identified themselves as "X Dynasty SUBJECTS." Their ethnicity was second to the loyalty to the dynasty.

>That doesn't square with the fact that the Ottoman armies were basically like every other Muslim army at the time, and did not really retain any Steppe characteristics at all.
Uh yes. It does. A lot.

The military is pretty much the only way Steppenigger culture survived in the meme empires Turkics built. I mean besides language

The fact that their weapons are associated with Muslim speaks highly of Turkic integration into their new Islamic culture.

Shit like the mounted horse archer, the steppe version of the composite recurve bow, THE FUCKING SABER, military fashions such as topknotting or that silly side buttoning jacket that Muslim aristocrats used to wear, are all Steppenegro heritage.

In addition the "Muslim" fixation for light, horse archer cavalry. That was Turkic through and through. Brought to them by Mamluks and afterwards the Seljuks. Prior to this the Arabs were first and foremost light infantry. Who then adopted bits of warfare from the Sassanids and the Romans.

I am speaking from point of view of "plebs". I.E most of the population. See authors from Ottoman Empire like Osman Agha or Karachelebi who wrote in Turkish, former a lot more "clear" than the latter. Osman Agha was also a devshirme. Also a lot of Arabic and Persian literature was translated to Ottoman starting from 16th century, it shows that there was no "disdain" against it, even if it was considered lesser compared to Arabic and Persian.

>Le invasion = le wipe out
Except it was on a scale of the colonisation of America, friend.

We kept a express-way open from Transoxiana for centuries.
Hundreds upon hundreds of different Turkic tribes would settle to live the "Anatolian dream" of settling down no longer relying on your horse and having your own harem of balkan sluts.
Sure natives would still be around but we were the real Romans now.

You mean those qiegao-selling mudslimes?

Turkroach can't realise his people were sheep that would be conquered and assimilated over and over.

Byzaboo/stormweenie can't realise we were the ones conquering and doing the "assimilation" over and over.

Implying your forefathers were anything other than anatolian goatfuckers/ goatherders

>Meanwhile in Anatolia we pretty much wiped out the ethnic population
>we
>wiped out the ethnic population

Oh yes, you all look so Central Asian

For fuck's sake, just read up some studies about the ethnical composition of modern turks, you have basically nothing to do with Central Asian Turkish people, just some really low admixture but over all you're your own ethnic group and much closer to South Eastern Europeans and Near Easterners than to fucking Central Asians like Kazakhstans

>We kept a express-way open from Transoxiana for centuries.
>we

Most of your ancestors were those being conquered, maybe 5 or even being "generous" 10% were the conquerors, the rest were Anatolians.

>Except it was on a scale of the colonisation of America, friend.

Lol no, also Central America is still basically mostly native, only place were the local population was mostly hunter gatherers like Brazil, Argentina or North America got most of their population replaced, and that's because of diseases

>goatfuckers/ goatherders

That would fit the descriptions of the Turkik nomadic invaders more than Anatolians who at least largely practiced agriculture and were settled in cities along the coast

*sigh* it's hard being Turkic master race when you got all these inferior white folks soon to be bred out of existance making up lies about your Oghuz ancestry.

Yeah, I'm sure Turks look like this

What a nice looking Finnish family.

Still don't see your point, though.

>Kyrgyz
>Not even Oghuz

Here Turkmenis.

To be honest if I was a wewuzian like you (I'm not fortunately) I'd look up to my actual ancestors like the Hittities who went close to conquering ancient Egypt and held and empire from Syria and Iraq to Western Anatolia, to the early city states under Assyrian protection, where tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets were found, or the interesting Luwian and Syro-Hittitie kingdoms, or at Lydia, one of the wealthiest kingdoms of antiquities, or the Greek Anatolian city states like Miletus where philosphy was born, at the wonderous rock tombs of Lycia, at all the rich cities of the Anatolian coast in antiquity like Ephesus and Tarsus, from where many important historical figures arised, at the Byzantine empire, the list goes on and on.

>make a thread about turkey
>mehmet ali goatfuckers come out of the woodwork
ah yes love this board

>talk about my Turkic heirtage
>cletus shartpants stormweenies come out of the woodwork thinking they can refute a thousand years of Turkic occupation with "muh greek rape babbys"
ah yes love this board

> We kept a express-way open from Transoxiana for centuries

Not after the rise of Shia Persia. That cut off the Ottomans from Central Asia permanently.

Anywhere to look for pics of central asian or turkic qts?

I went to Xinjiang. It seems like more of a 'breeding out' thing. Urumqi is a Han city, make no mistake.

Smart choice. By leaving Xinjiang turkic/muslim it's gonna be big big trouble down the road and may spill out of the region.

TBF if you strip a Greek and Turk naked you can't really tell the difference.
Without the fez pic related would fit in at the polis and nobody would ever know.

Most are native anatolians, slavs and armenians and also to a sm\ller degree central asians. Anyway being nomads meant that turks mixed with everyone they came across or raided so being turkish is not an genetic concept anymore but a cultural one.

...

Because Urumuqi literally didn't exist until Han settlers built it in the Qing dynasty.

The Uyghurs were traditionally centred around Kashgar.

Kashgar and Hotan t.b.h

kek

This sums it up perfectly.

>Oghuz ancestry
Judging from these papers mentioned above and other history books, there is a high possibility that the ruling class of Gok-Turk was Y haplogroup Q, and the ruling clans of Oghuz Turks were Q1a1b-M25. Also, the royal family of Ashina(阿史那) clan that ruled Gok-Turk and Khazaria kingdom is maintained to be haplogroup Q1b.[39] It is also plausible because Turk is a descendant of Xiongnu that was ruled by haplogroup Q. For example, in the ancient cemetery in Heigouliang(Xinjiang), which is known as the summer palace of Xiongnu king, 12 men were excavated, and all belong to Y haplogroup Q. Especially, all 4 Q1b men among them represent hosts of tombs.[40](Xiongnu nobles/conquerors found in another ancient site are turned out to be Q-M3)[41]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmens#Y-DNA_haplogroups_of_Turkmens

IF your haplogroup isn't Q you aren't Turks.

...

This.

people who live in modern turkey aren't turkish

people who live in modern france aren't french

kek

They are Turkic speaking Anatolians. Not Turkic people

The original Turks were Siberians.
Central Asian Turks are genetically a mix of Turkics and Iranics.
Anatolian Turks are just Anatolians speaking Turkish.

>The original Turks were Siberians.
Proto Turks were the natives of the Altai or Western/Central Mongolia who interacted with Indo Europeans,Uralics,Mongolics,Tungusics and Yenesians.

Turks and Poles are the craziest people when it comes to discussing history, they will simply throw all logic, science, data and studies aside, make their own shit up and believe it as if it was a religion.

This entire board is the most retarded place cause they still haven't figured out he is a falseflagging australian shitposter.

Just fucking google "Periplaneta" which is part of his retarded tripname and come back and tell me the result.

>australian shitposter
lol nice stereotype retard

>WE WUZ MONGOLIANZ N SHIET SENPAI

Do Turks not have mirrors? You guys don't look Mongoloid at all.

t. actual Mongoloid

fuck off cunt.

we know he is one of your sleepers from /int/

I stand by my point, used to frquent many history forums and turks and poles are fucking delusional. Theres also a whole pseudo history movement about how turkic people were a proto empire that gave birth to civilization.

I agree, pan-turanism,"we wuz oghuz n sheit", "muh grey wolves n turkic heirtage" eventhough half of them don't even know who Tengri is, all the material you need to cause general butthurt and the turks gave it to the shitposters on a silver platter.

I just needed to vent at how easy this board gets baited by him.

>Siberians/Altai
indeed they are part of the Paleo-Siberian peoples

all the paleo-siberian families are identical except linguistically

the difference between a samoyed, evenk, chukchi, yakut, mongol, manchu, korean, eskimo, khanti is minimal

paleosiberian, like papuan, or australian, is based on genotype and not language

> impossible for the Turks to have wiped out all of the local inhabitants

Mongol conquests anhilated 70,000,000+ 1206–1324 Eurasia
Conquests of Tamerlane anhilated 20,000,000+ 1370–1405 Eurasia
Turko-Mongoloid conquests anhilated 300,000,000+ 200-1920 Eurasia

>plenty of mongol rape babies people still left in Central Asia and the Middle East

the reason why Tocharians vanished:

Mongoloid raids and invasions as some of the deadliest conflicts in human history.

Large areas of Asia were seriously depopulated,[6] as every city, village or town was subject to destruction. Each soldier was required to execute a certain number of persons, with the number varying according to circumstances. For example, after the conquest of Urgench, each Mongol warrior – in an army group that might have consisted of two tumens (units of 10,000) – was required to execute 100 people [7].

Mongoloid invasions induced population extermination on a scale never seen before particularly in Central Asia and eastern Europe.

The only Turkics who went like that were Uzbeks and Kazakhs. Because their leaders used to be related to Genghis Khan.

>Idiots talking about Muh Race! Muh Race!.
>Turkic is a fucking language group
I've had better history threads in Veeky Forums. Veeky Forums was a fucking mistake. It took the historyfaggots from /k// /int/ and Veeky Forums and banded them with /pol/lacks.

>Are they Asians

the recent expansion was participated by various mongoloid groups:
Xiongnu 匈奴, Xianbei 拓跋部, Donghu 东胡, Dingling 丁零, Shiwei 室韦, Tántán 檀檀 (Rouran Khaganate), Tuòbá 拓拔, Yueban 悅般, Nirun, Tūjué 突厥 (Gokturk), Chigan 叱干, Xue 薛姓, Xueyantuo 薛延陀, Tiele 鐵勒, Huns 匈人, Khazar 可萨人, Avars 阿瓦尔人, Bulgars 保加尔人, Xi tūjué (Onoq - Western Turkic Khaganate), Dōng tūjué (Eastern Turkic Khaganate), Gu-su (Oghuz) 烏古斯人, Ogurs, Utigurs, Huíhé (Uygur) 回纥, Onogurs, Kutrigurs, Kangar 康國聯盟, Kimak 基馬克汗國, Kuman 庫曼汗國, Kereit, Gelolu (Karluk) 葛逻禄, Kara-Khan 黑汗, Tūqíshī 突騎施, Yugur 甘州回鶻, Pachanaq 佩切涅格人, Qīnchá (Kipchak) 欽察, Nogais 諾蓋人, Karachays 卡拉恰伊人, Seljuk 塞尔柱帝国, Kirghiz 柯尔克孜族, Chigil 處月, Qangli 康里, Shalgan, Chulyms 楚利姆鞑靼人, Kumyks 庫梅克人, Dada (Tatars) 韃靼,
Güchügüd (Naiman) 乃蛮, Ongud 汪古部, Dolugad 杜格拉特, Bashkirs 巴什基爾人, Chuvash 楚瓦什人, Gagauz, Uzborgs, Kazakhs 哈薩克族, Khakas 哈卡斯人, Qashqai 卡什加人, Tuwans 图瓦人, Báxīmì 拔悉密, Shatuo 沙陀, Oirat 四衛拉特, Buryats 布里亚特人, Arghun 阿魯渾王朝, Kara Del 哈密國,
Khitan 契丹人, Khamag 蒙兀国, Mongol 蒙古帝国, Dzungar 准噶尔汗国, Chagatai 察合台汗國, Khilji 卡爾吉王朝, Telengut, Teleuts 铁列乌特人, Kalmyk 卡爾梅克汗國, Khoshut 和硕特汗国, Tonggu (Tungus) 通古, Dolgans 多尔干人, Sālāzú 撒拉族, Shors 索尔人

>all the paleo-siberian families are identical except linguistically
You don't understand the meaning of Paleo Siberian.

>the difference between a samoyed, evenk, chukchi, yakut, mongol, manchu, korean, eskimo, khanti is minimal
Proven false by autosomal dna.

Uralic,Mongolic and Turkic speaking populations have Western Eurasian admixture.

Koreans,Japanese and by a lesser extent the Mongols and Manchus have ancestry from East Eurasian lowlanders(Dai like).

>paleosiberian, like papuan, or australian, is based on genotype and not language
Oceanians are quite distant from East Eurasians.

>Altai
>not Siberia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altai_Mountains
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia#Mountain_ranges

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_Siberia

and fuck off retard

When people from turkey think that they turkic

Turks originally looked like Mongols like your pic. They are indigenous to Russia, Central Asia, Mongolia and possibly China.

Many of the Turks who invaded Anatolia were heavily mixed with Iranian ethnicities, thus they don't look like the original Turks completely. Many are also former Anatolians, Greeks, Armenians, etc etc.

You mean, our rightful territory that we conquered from the Oirats and settled you on ? Ungrateful Shitskin, this is why your race is weak.

Pretty much. But Turk history is repetitions of this.

See: Bulgaria.

Do the people in Turkey consider itself as a multi-ethnic people ? Are they aware of their non-asian origins ?

Most Turks I've met in Australia are well aware and chill, accepting and proud of it.

Turks here are alright as long as they're not we-wuz, pol-tier super autistic right wing types.

Only bad egg I met was one Uighur who started bitching to me about Han Chinese not hiring his terrorist brethren for jobs, then he got mad when my north Chinese hand patted him on the back.