Who is the worst US president of all time and why is it Woodrow Wilson?

>pushes nation state meme
>while the usa is composed of multiple nationalities

Wilson didn't break up Austria-Hungary. Austria-Hungary broke up on its own.

Austria-Hungary would literally never break up if not for losing the war, at worst they would just let the Serbs leave.

>Austria-Hungary would literally never break up if not for losing the war
Okay? What does that have to with Wilson? He didn't cause the war.

Stop lying about the country destroying itself then, you rat.

>he didn't cause
He sure contributed to its outcome with his intervention and his postwar Wilsonian order though. That guy was Clinton on steroids.

>Stop lying about the country destroying itself then, you rat
It's literally true though you ass-ravaged faggot. No one forcibly dissolved Austria-Hungary, the various peoples declared independence. Obviously there was a context to that (losing the war) but it was still the actions of locals. Stay mad, Austria pro

He actually did break up Austria-Hungary. In 1918, A-H tried negotiating for peace, and even federalized to an extent as a sign of good will. Brits and French would have accepted it, but the US firmly refused anything but complete dissolution (because of the nation-state meme, pretty much the most harmful meme in the whole history of the world). Only after that did the whole nationalist chimpout happen, and Austrians were prohibited to intervene.

>various people declared independence
Right.

>no referendum
>pro-monarchist circles deliberately excluded from postwar negotiations
>handpicked Entente stooges and foreign agents get to be the only representatives

Kill yourself.

[citation needed]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about, stop embarrassing yourself. Austria-Hungary had already ceased to exist by time the postwar negotiations even occurred. And it was the elected members of the pre-war Austrian parliament that voted to abolish the monarchy.

>Alexander Watson argues that, "The Habsburg regime's doom was sealed when Wilson's response to the note sent two an half weeks earlier arrived on 20 October." Wilson rejected the continuation of the dual monarchy as a negotiable possibility.[157] As one of his Fourteen Points, President Woodrow Wilson demanded that the nationalities of Austria-Hungary have the "freest opportunity to autonomous development". In response, Emperor Karl I agreed to reconvene the Imperial Parliament in 1917 and allow the creation of a confederation with each national group exercising self-governance. However the leaders of these national groups rejected the idea; they deeply distrusted Vienna and were now determined to get independence.

>On 14 October 1918, Foreign Minister Baron István Burián von Rajecz[158] asked for an armistice based on the Fourteen Points. In an apparent attempt to demonstrate good faith, Emperor Karl issued a proclamation ("Imperial Manifesto of 16 October 1918") two days later which would have significantly altered the structure of the Austrian half of the monarchy. The Polish majority regions of Galicia and Lodomeria were to be granted the option of seceding from the empire, and it was understood that they would join their ethnic brethren in Russia and Germany in resurrecting a Polish state. The rest of Cisleithania was transformed into a federal union composed of four parts—German, Czech, South Slav and Ukrainian. Each of these was to be governed by a national council that would negotiate the future of the empire with Vienna and Trieste was to receive a special status. No such proclamation could be issued in Hungary, where Hungarian aristocrats still believed they could subdue other nationalities and maintain the "Holy Kingdom of St. Stephen". [cont]

>It was a dead letter. Four days later, on 18 October United States Secretary of State Robert Lansing replied that the Allies were now committed to the causes of the Czechs, Slovaks and South Slavs. Therefore, Lansing said, autonomy for the nationalities – the tenth of the Fourteen Points – was no longer enough and Washington could not deal on the basis of the Fourteen Points any more. In fact, a Czechoslovak provisional government had joined the Allies on 14 October. The South Slavs in both halves of the monarchy had already declared in favor of uniting with Serbia in a large South Slav state by way of the 1917 Corfu Declaration signed by members of the Yugoslav Committee, and the Croatians had begun disregarding orders from Budapest earlier in October.

this. He also changed his tune on them several times. Initially he depicted them as a victim of German hegemony in Central Europe.
>They have done a wrong to Belgium which must be repaired. They have established a power over other lands and peoples than their own--over the great Empire of Austria-Hungary, over hitherto free Balkan states, over Turkey, and within Asia--which must be relinquished.
>The peace we make must remedy that wrong. It must deliver the once fair lands and happy peoples of Belgium and northern France from the Prussian conquest and the Prussian menace, but it must also deliver the peoples of Austria-Hungary, the peoples of the Balkans, and the peoples of Turkey, alike in Europe and in Asia, from the impudent and alien dominion of the Prussian military and commercial autocracy.
By the end of the war he was completely against their continued existence. Everybody else in the entente was either indifferent or openly thought it was a bad idea to destabilize the region in such a way, but Wilson's autism prevailed in the end.

>The Lansing note was, in effect, the death certificate of Austria-Hungary. The national councils had already begun acting more or less as provisional governments of independent countries. With defeat in the war imminent after the Italian offensive in the Battle of Vittorio Veneto on 24 October, Czech politicians peacefully took over command in Prague on 28 October (later declared the birthday of Czechoslovakia) and followed up in other major cities in the next few days. On 30 October, the Slovaks followed in Martin. On the 29th of October, the Slavs in both portions of what remained of Austria-Hungary proclaimed the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs. They also declared their ultimate intention was to unite with Serbia and Montenegro in a large South Slav state. On the same day, the Czechs and Slovaks formally proclaimed the establishment of Czechoslovakia as an independent state. Karl's last Hungarian prime minister, Mihály Károlyi, terminated the personal union with Austria on 31 October, officially dissolving the Austro-Hungarian state. By the end of October, there was nothing left of the Habsburg realm but its majority-German Danubian and Alpine provinces, and Karl's authority was being challenged even there by the German-Austrian state council.[159]

Was this the guy who died of exhaustion promoting League of Nations because he was a proto-hippie?

Here.

To clarify, I was talking specifically about Czechoslovakia, a country founded by Entente generals and Parisian professors where monarchists were not only excluded from negotiations but outright jailed.

Frantisek Jehlicka and Andrej Hlinka demanded a referendum in what is now Slovakia and the requests were completely ignored. Nobody actually gave a fuck about what the people wanted and nobody bothered asking them.

I'm well aware of all that, but it doesn't support what you said, because this all took place before the armistice was even signed, so the Allies could not possibly have prohibited Austria from intervening in its own territory at this point. It also ignores that the national councils that were established pretty much immediately declared independence and started functioning as provisional governments. Wilson didn't create nationalism among the peoples of Austria-Hungary, it already existed and radicalized through the war leading to independence. The Allies just recognized this pre-existing fact.

>destroys Austro-Hungary because of nation state meme
>lets Yugoslavia forms from its remains

????

To back up your point:
>Even many Czechs and Slovaks were unconvinced of the viability of a Czechoslovak state, as Czechoslovak nationalism had made little progress since the revolutions of 1848. Czech leaders such as Masaryk went to great lengths to convince both nationalities that independence was possible and best done through a state compromising both peoples. However, no leader of any great stature emerged for the movement and according to W. R. Callcott there was “little evidence of a desire for full independence in Prague and Bratislava – something which supporters of the Dual Monarchy never fail to emphasize”. Despite President Wilson’s speech in January 1917 supporting self-determination, events in Austria-Hungary had set back the cause of Czechoslovak nationalism substantially. The new emperor was more acceptable to the allies than Franz Joseph had been, and had two Bohemians (Clam-Martinic and Czernin) heading his ministry.

That has nothing to do with the dissolution of Austria-Hungary though, but with what occurred later after it had already fallen apart.

To be clear, I'm not arguing any of this is a good thing. Who knows what the people would have said in a referendum. But the fact is it was the actions of local actors on the ground that were decisive. It's not like Austria-Hungary was just walking along doing fine and then the Allies burst in and fucked things up. History is more complex then that. The locals responded to the actions of the Allies, but the Allies were also responding to actions of the locals.

Obama has done all that in spades. It makes Dubya look like he did it on accident.
Lincoln shat all over the constitution, fuck that bloke

The allies were responding to the actions of a bunch of nationalists in exile in their countries petitioning for something that was not openly being demanded back home in any major way. Germany went through similar instability after the war, but we treat independence attempts such as the Bavarian Soviet Republic as somehow being different because of the nation-state meme. Austria-Hungary was bound to lose quite a bit of territory but had it been given a chance to restore order it would have been able to maintain control of most of its core.

That's highly debatable, and there is no way of knowing. The fact is there is a big difference between:
>Wilson destroyed Austria-Hungary
and
>local nationalists destroyed Austria-Hungary, and Wilson supported them

Wilson didn't force the National Councils Karl had set up to declare independence. He didn't force the Austrian parliament to vote to abolish the monarchy. They did that themselves. His support helped, but local actors had agency too.

I'm not arguing that there were no nationalist/federalist movements. I know history better than that. I'm arguing that, if the Entente didn't actively support them and outright refuse any kind of peace that didn't end in utter dissolution (as it is likely that A-H would have returned under control if given an opportunity to do so), there wouldn't be any independence uprisings. Federalist uprisings? Likely. But without the Entente being there to guarantee the new-formed nations' independences, there wouldn't have been seccessions.

There is absolutely no way of knowing if that is true. Maybe. But the fact is, what actually occurred is that the local national councils declared independence. They took the decisive step. No one forced them. They could have declared their support for a federal state instead, but they didn't.

The point is that it is a lot more complex than "Woodrow Wilson destroyed Austria-Hungary" memehistory.

Wilson did not do any of those things, but he openly rejected peace overtures made by a country that had been 100% defeated short of the Italians or Russians marching into Vienna with the expressed intent of ensuring complete collapse.

The only reason I'm so butthurt at Wilson for this is that he basically deprived the US and the other allies a potential key ally in fighting the Axis later on, basically making that entire region ripe for the taking by the Nazis. Anybody with any sort of sense could tell that there would be a power vacuum in that region that would massively favor the Germans, even in the 1910s.

>Wilson did not do any of those things, but he openly rejected peace overtures made by a country that had been 100% defeated short of the Italians or Russians marching into Vienna with the expressed intent of ensuring complete collapse.
I don't know why you bring up the Russians since they were out of the war by this point. Anyway, no one is denying Wilson supported breaking up Austria-Hungary. But he wasn't the only one.

Think about it like this: whose idea was it to break up Austria-Hungary, originally? I think you'll find it Masaryk and the other nationalists, not Wilson. They later convinced the American government to support them, but it was their idea originally.

Wilson's actions were the context for local nationalists doing their own thing of their own free will.

>The only reason I'm so butthurt at Wilson for this is that he basically deprived the US and the other allies a potential key ally in fighting the Axis later on, basically making that entire region ripe for the taking by the Nazis. Anybody with any sort of sense could tell that there would be a power vacuum in that region that would massively favor the Germans, even in the 1910s.
I agree with that. I don't even like Woodrow Wilson, my intention is not to defend him, but to pretend he broke up Austria-Hungary all on his own is ridiculous. He didn't conjure nationalism out of the aether, it was there already.

You believe that Obama has got us into 2 wars, collapsed the economy, and made the US look worse than GWB did? Are you seriously this delusional? Corruption and political polarization are not exclusive or to any administration, so I'm not gonna argue about that. I'm just trying my best to not be as delusional and bitter about Trump as you guys were about Obama, but c'mon, GWB was easily among the worst US presidents recently, if not ever.

Not just for US, but for the entire world
Woodrow Wilson truly was the worst president of all time

>Obama
>makes US look stupid
Pick one, really.
He is à nigger but hé is à fucking good front-of-the-scene-Man.

Sorry for the froglish.

Don't forget how he advocated for a lenient Versailles, which caused WW2

What do you mean by this?
You know Dubya does not refer to Obama, right?

>All this hate for Woody when he tried his hardest to make sure something as horrible as WW1 would ever happen again
He was a good man ;_;7

I hate him for bringing back the Federal Reserve

>SJW crap it's LBJ
>Equal rights are now SJW crap

Wilson did literally nothing wrong in the Presidency, literally nothing

>lenient Versailles
>caused ww2
Most autistic thing I've read in a while

Not him, but it's true

Calm down, UT.

>Versailles was lenient
"[Germany] was stripped of 13 per cent of her territory and ten per cent of her population; the border territories of Alsace and Lorraine were returned to France. Germany lost all of her colonies, 75 per cent of her iron ore deposits and 26 per cent of her coal and potash. The size of the army and navy was drastically cut, and an air force and submarines were forbidden. The Germans also had to officially accept ‘war guilt’ and pay reparations to the tune of £6,000 million."

history.co.uk/study-topics/history-of-ww2/treaty-of-versailles

>Versailles caused WW2 by being too lenient
"A German revanchist movement developed in response to the losses of World War I. Pangermanists within the Weimar Republic called for the reclamation of the property of a German state due to pre-war borders or because of the territory's historical relation to Germanic peoples. The movement called for the re-incorporation of Alsace-Lorraine, the Polish Corridor and the Sudetenland."
"Those claims, supported by Hitler, led to World War II, with the invasion of Poland."

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revanchism

An excessively harsh Versailles caused WW2, not a lenient one.

That is lenient though.

Not everyone else's fault that Germans were nationalist chimps.

>Joins the war late so he can sit at the conference table and dictate some terms.
>Sets out 14 points suggesting that a League of Nations should be set up to avoid future war.
>Doesn't fucking join it.
>The shit show starts all over again a la WW2.

He was pretty terrible, maybe not the worst though.

There are (somehow) a number of presidents worse than Dubya

evreyone forgets about liberia

what did thomas jefferson even do when he was ambassador to liberia?

Any answer to "worst president" that isn't Warren J Harding or James Buchanan is the work of plebeians, plain and simple.

Harding was just a George W. tier dumbass who just wanted to be called President without actually doing the work. Buchanan was shit, Andrew Johnson was shit, and maybe Coolidge there too

That's a red line
I didn't make a red line
Laughter from press corps

I love HP Lovecraft

Surveys of historians consistently find that it was one of those two or Johnson.

I will accept Johnson.

Johnson usually edges them out because he was actively trying to be a good president but was just a complete bastard, the other two just got bored/duped

Everyone was Nationalist Chimps thats why WWI happened in the first place.

Children are seen and not heard, so do us a favor and STFU.

What's wrong with environmental laws?

What's wrong with American economic imperialism?

Buchanan and Harding are more commonly at the bottom, in that order.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States#Scholar_survey_results

After all, Johnson only botched Reconstruction.

Buchanan literally caused the Civil War.

Yeah
Yeah
Definitely!
Syria, Libya, we're 10 trillion more in debt than when Bush left, and we have a goof ball loser whose only likable feature is he "uses social media" and "is black".

dont forget: smallest job growth of any president

yea he bad

You're an imbecile
Just try and compare Versailles to Post-WW2 Peace (the one that succeded at preventing any further German chimpout)

Versailles left Germany a unified country with only a very tiny area occupied for 10 years
Post-WW2 Peace had Germany divided into two entities barriered deom interracting with each others, and the whole country is still under US and British military occupation more 70 years after WW2

>eu
>not germans chimping out

Any anti-globalist hates him

Anti globalism is the shittiest meme on earth

>Syria
>Libya
>wars

Why don't you head back over to /pol/ where your friends who also don't know anything are? You can be all happy about how God-Emperor Trump is gonna Make America Great Again, despite all the signs that he's gonna be another bog standard republican. You did it, praise Kek!

Wilson was shit and he deserves all the crap he gets for starting WW1.

> t. Austrian
Austria-Hungary was the worst thing that ever fucking happened. Thank god that disaster is over

Wilson is a top 10 president.

If he got his way at Versailles he would have prevented WWII.

This stupid mother fucker

>fucked up the end of WW2 by muting efforts to oppose Stalin
>politically unqualified
>tried to be a university president, failed miserably
>used it as a stepping-stone to becoming the big Pres
>delegated more power to his VP than any other President
>had no idea about anything outside of war
>sold out American interests to back-stabbing Brits and French just so he could hang with the popular kids
>started 70 years of a Middle-Eastern quagmire
>single-handedly killed Islamic modernization
>single-handedly destroyed what could have been the first successful Islamic democracy in Iran through CIA bastardry
>all just to help out BP fucking oil
>started the events that would lead to the Vietnam war, just to help out French imperialists
>highest marginal tax rates ever
>major economic recession towards the end of his second term
>brings the world the closest it ever was to nuclear war thanks to his massive ego not allowing him to apologize for the U-2 "incident"
>spends most of his free time golfing because he's old and worthless
>warned us about the military-industrial complex; IN HIS FUCKING FAREWELL ADDRESS, gee thanks for the advice, cunt

Oh but hey

>muh interstate system

Most of the roads were already built in the 1920s or later, Eisenhower was just able to connect them a bit more easily after FDR yugely expanded the federal government. See the Lincoln Highway, which stretched from NYC to San Fran. As if freeways never would have happened without him.

I'll give him credit for having the balls to get the army involved in desegregation, but that's it. He was both a horrible general and president, people only love him because he looks like the Gerber baby and MUH WW2 and WHAT A STRONG, INSPIRING LEADER. Fuck him to hell.

Andrew Johnson was worse

>The only people who dislike him are /pol/fags who hate the FRB and women's suffrage
No user, most people hate him for ww1 and the SoN.

>1776
>british
>world's leading superpower.

It's a tie between Franklin Pierce and Buchanan.

>fucked up the end of WW2 by muting efforts to oppose Stalin
The whole world just wanted to go fucking home, no one wanted to fight anything anymore.

>hard
You spelled "Warren G Harding" wrong.

You're just talking about Czechs.
South Slavs would leave, so would Romanians in Transylvania and Poles and others in Galicia. So empire would collapse anyway.
Austria-Hungary was a shitty state mostly because Hungarians owned most of it. Austrians were okay rulers but Hungarians weren't.
You're just talking from Czech perspective and applying it to whole empire.

>Spanish Armada already fucked and Spain doing fuck all outside of keeping shit they already got
>France in decadent decay
>Russia doing Slav stuff
>H
>R
>E
>Portugal only concerned with buying slaves that they can kill busting their ass in sugar plantations
Who is then?

You'd think /pol/ would love him sinxe he hated niggers with a passions

>libya

No troops, approved by the UN

>syria

Started by Assad, rebeks only got limited support before isis

>Who is then?

Literally no one
The concept of global superpower is very recent, and the British Empire of 1776 is extremely tiny

Btw, Brotain wasn't the most powerful country in Europe either
France was definitly the biggest power, followed by Russia, Prussia and Austria, and to a lesser extend Spain
Britain was really a secondary power, not far behind Spain

Aside from the millions of gommies taking over half of Europe, inevitably dragging America into more war. Eisenhower was a pussy, Patton still wanted to fight, but the elites killed him.