Why does God let bad things happen?

Seems like we're applying the Razor too much to just throw God out the window.

>semen

Wrong sex

There's a word for exploring this question that I can't remember. Dostoevsky's Karamazov falls into this category. It's... 'theo-something' I think....

Hope someone can help me out

No one even brought up Occam's Razor though?

Theodicy.

What do you call the jump from "Bad things happen" to "God doesn't exist"?

No one said the reason there isn't a god is because bad things happen either. You seem primed to want to read into things with ideas that are in actuality only in your head and not in the text your projecting onto them.

*you're projecting onto them.

Then why join the conversation at all if not to work with the limits set by OP?

OP didn't set any limits. He made an assumption and we're answering the question by denying that the assumption is true, which is a perfectly valid way to respond to a question.

That's it. thanks a million pal.

Strange definition of perfectly valid

You believe it useful giving suggestions that don't answer the question but bring the conversation away from the original point to a completely different one?

>Strange definition of perfectly valid

No it isn't.

>You believe it useful giving suggestions that don't answer the question

It does answer the question. If you were to ask me why the Sun rises above the Earth and falls below it each day, it would not only be perfectly valid to deny the assumption of geocentrism, it would in fact be the only correct answer you could give.

If the question was how could the Sun rise and fall in a world of geocentrism, it is not a valid answer to say geocentrism isn't correct. It ignores the question.

The question is not does God exist. The question is how could evil manifest in a world with a God.

You're pushing the conversation away from the original question in a very egotistical attempt to dominate the thread by ignoring the setting set by the OP.

>If the question was how could the Sun rise and fall in a world of geocentrism, it is not a valid answer to say geocentrism isn't correct. It ignores the question.

Dishonest comparison. Nobody specified "in a world where God exists," which would be the analogous equivalent to "in a world of geocentrism." If the OP started with "assume God exists" then you'd be right. It doesn't say that though. All it does is ask a question that happens to depend on an assumption, and not only is it not wrong to question assumptions, it's the only way you *can* be not wrong in the case where the assumption isn't true. If you want to assume something for the sake of argument that's different and not at all what the OP question did.

Because he's dead

>Why does God let bad things happen?

He doesn't!

That's the only possible explanation. If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good, it is logically impossible for bad things to happen ever. However, WE are not omniscient, and there is nothing impossible about us misunderstanding what's good and what isn't. So that has to be it. The things that you think are bad are actually good! Feel better?

>Nobody specified "in a world where God exists,"

Christ, in question that begins "Why does God..." you'd think it'd be obvious that the question sets a world where God exists.

>All it does is ask a question that happens to depend on an assumption, and not only is it not wrong to question assumptions, it's the only way you *can* be not wrong in the case where the assumption isn't true.

You're not saying anything here.

You just said that if the assumption had been made it would be valid to work within it, but now you're saying that because the assumption was made it's correct to throw the assumption out of the window for the sole sake of "proving" your answer.

You're missing the difference between asking a question that happens to depend on an assumption vs. explicitly requesting that we assume something *for the sake of argument.* In the former case you can and should dispute the assumption if it's not true. In the latter case you shouldn't because you're being asked to accept it for the sake of argument. You already know this though because you dishonestly changed the geocentrism example to include the qualification "in a world of geocentrism."

>dishonestly

You need to learn the difference between a conversation and a debate. Not everyone is out to get you, user.

But it doesn't matter, I'm too tired to continue. You're going to assume this means I don't have a reply, but whatever.

I don't believe you're actually stupid enough to have added "in a world of geocentrism" accidentally. The remaining alternative is you did it on purpose because you know the difference but passed it off as the same anyway for the sake of winning an argument.

It gives us opportunity to fix things and learn the value of our actions.

bad things happen because of the nature of free will...while God is the most powerful he/she/it is not all powerful..we have free will therefore, God does not have control over us...this is why Satin fights in the World of humans..through our freewill, Satin is able to attack God..This conflict is the core struggle between light and dark.

How does a murder victim have an opportunity to fix anything? How does a murder victim learn the value of actions?

>while God is the most powerful he/she/it is not all powerful

Rev up those fires, Inquisitor!

I was talking more of issues that were out of human control. Murder is a necessary evil of allowing humans to have choice. Man invented murder, and it is something that has to exist for humans to have free will. If we don't have free will then there isn't any point to anything.

>If we don't have free will then there isn't any point to anything.

We don't have free will though. You can't make someone's head explode just by willing it. In fact there are many things you aren't free to will, probably an infinite number of things.

"Necessary evil" is contradicted by the concept of omnipotence. is the real answer.

...

>However, WE are not omniscient, and there is nothing impossible about us misunderstanding what's good and what isn't. So that has to be it. The things that you think are bad are actually good!

In that case the question moves to "what specifically are we mistaking about good things to where they seem as though they're bad to us?"

There are physical rules obviously to give it structure but the choice to kill or not to kill is still kind of a big deal. If you do choose to murder without any sort of reason then you made a pretty big decision. Then there are the times where murder is justified as well.
Omnipotence=/=constant interference. A teacher doesn't tell a student answers during the test even when they know they'll fail

>what specifically are we mistaking about good things to where they seem as though they're bad to us?

I dunno, I'm just a monkey. A clever monkey, but still.

An omnipotent teacher's students obviously would not fail.

Literally nothing bad happens to devout white Catholics that isn't the consequence of another human exercising their free-will

>There are physical rules obviously to give it structure but the choice to kill or not to kill is still kind of a big deal.

Not everyone has that choice though. Stephen Hawking for example likely cannot murder anyone due to not having the use of the majority of his body's muscles. This matters for the discussion because it shows that there could easily be a world where people don't have the ability to murder and this hypothetical alternative world would be in possession of "free will" in the same way our own is insofar as both worlds have things you can't physically do.

What about devout black Catholics?

They are not God's chosen people

BOOK OF JOB

>God, why do bad things happen
>HEY, THE FUCK YOU SAY TO ME LITTLE NIGGER, WERE YOU THERE WHEN I BUILT THE UNIVERSE, BECAUSE I WAS! CAN YOU COUNT ALL THE BIRDS THAT HAVE EVER EXISTED, BECAUSE I CAN! SO FUCK OFF, PUNK ASS NIGGER
>Lol, thanks god

Shitty writing, shitty book

Were you there? Well, were you? Are you God?

He does'nt. it is his universe, so he decides what is good and what is bad in it.

At the risk of sounding very cliche, the answer is that God:
A) is God
B) has a plan
C) knows what he's doing

>Job 1:21 (ESV)
>And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”

Noted Reformed theologian R.C. Sproul says of this verse:
>God is not capricious or arbitrary. He does not act irrationally, nor does He show or permit violence purposelessly. That doesn’t mean we always know why a particular evil occurs at a given place or time. Because we don’t know all the reasons behind each particular evil, we can’t make facile connections between guilt and disaster, between a person’s sin and the evil that befalls him. Texts including the book of Job and John 9 keep us from universally declaring that pain is a specific punishment for specific sin. That means that when inexplicable disasters occur, we must say with Martin Luther, “Let God be God.” Job’s cry that “the Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord” (Job 1:21) was not a superficial display of piety or a denial of pain. Instead, Job bit his lip and clenched his stomach as he remained faithful in the middle of tragedy and unmitigated suffering. Job knew who God was, and he refused to curse Him.

it has good imagery and some archaic hebrew phrases which i can't wait to read a verse by verse analysis of. but the ending is shit.

can't believe i watched that entire debate

Why not?

Give link to the debate

it's good stuff. Ken Ham is good for laughs but after 2 hours of him i could feel myself getting dumber
youtu.be/wvO3zJaNBjs

desu you just can't argue with a man like that. I have a young earth creationist friend. I talk to him about religion, but there's no point arguing stuff like atheism etc. even more, he's one of those conspiracy theoriests who believe that catholic church is the devil, obama is potentially the antichrist and voting for hilary is voting for isis. No point debating about that either.

what an unsatisfying quote. I guess faith is faith.

God better have given Job the best suite in heaven. Or i sure would be pissed.

so fucking dumb when he tries to get creationist scientists out.

"Bad" is the biggest spook of all

>God better have given Job the best suite in heaven. Or i sure would be pissed.

Then you're a narcissistic fool and you miss the point of Job.

>catholic church is the devil
You mean it isn't? Post-Council of Trent we can at least reasonably ask the question.

Because what's the point of life if it's going to be perfect?

How can we appreciate the warmth of summer without the cold of winter? Our happiness is only given contextual meaning if we first know what to compare it to, that of suffering.

I don't believe in any God literally, but I overcame the existential question of why any God(s) might allow suffering ages ago.

i was joking. (well mostly). i do understand the point of the story.

>memetics level approaching 9000.

I think on the surface what you said makes sense but i if you look at it deeper, it just becomes cliche.

I don't think that view is backed by scripture. The Old Testament says God started out by giving man paradise and that suffering only came later after original sin. I take this as meaning paradise in itself would be good and worthwhile. Man fucked it up, but there wasn't anything inherently flawed with the original arrangement or else God wouldn't have started with it. The problem was man giving into temptation, not a lack of suffering. Suffering came later as a punishment for disobedience, not as something needed to make pleasure meaningful.

What you must understand is that according to the Bible our earthly lives are mere tests, after which we will either live forever or simply die (hell isn't explained very deeply in the New Testament, I prefer this interpretation). In this world we humans make the decisions by which we ought to be judged. We have free will, and it would be inappropriate for God to intervene. If God was to stop a bad thing from happening, it would be only fair to stop every bad thing ever, but then we're not really talking about free will aren't we?

Because God finds our suffering amusing

Dumbass this is literally all conversation. You progress through relevant topics.

this is the only reasonable conclusion honestly

Freewill. Most of the bad things that happen are result of human actions: cruelty, overpopulation, greed, drugs while pregnant, etc. The rest of it is the unfortunate effects of the natural law that God has set to govern the universe. While for the most part it works perfectly, you will get the unfortunate fluke case of a child with bone cancer or something every now and again.

t. Ivan Karamazov

stop taking scripture literally like its the word of god or something.

...wait...

Because Satan.

Read the Bible

You assume that God considers bad things to be the same things we consider bad things to be. Perhaps what we see as evil, God doesn't and is acceptable in his eyes.

are we not created in the image of god?

>most part works perfectly.

You fucking kidding? You naive bitch

Are we omnipotent, we aren't God, we simply resemble him

no but i mean, if we are in his image, then our emotions, our internal lives dont to some extent mirror gods? we have love because god has love. im willing to say the same for anger. are we completely not allowed to consider what is reasonable in gods decisions?

He doesn't.
Nothing not pleasing in the utmost to His eyes ever occurs.

Why shouldn't he?
And what is bad for you?

If something like a God bound to Abrahamic beliefs exists, then why should he hold us in his palm and protect us from all the bad things out there? Why is he responsible for taking care of us in that way, or at all?

Why is everyone treating God like an old geezer in the sky who is supposed to hear our prayers and enrichen our lifes ?

Bad things have to be there if good things exist and vice versa, you will always find shadows when light is involved.
If you want to have one without the other, the thing that you want is completely worthless and irrelevant, it's basically non-existant.