Why are poles so butthurt about losing territories in which they were a relatively small minority and the native...

Because people can get assimilated. Just look at Russia, it assimilated everyone around them, even though they're in majority not ethnic Russians.

It's only Poles that are the ultimate cucks and can't fucking polonize anyone. Truly thr cuck of Europe and Batman of nations. Can't do anything right and always spares his enemies, causing the anal devastation and partitions.

Bunch of fucking imbeciles.

You do realize a good chunk of the Poles in western poland are of german descent.

>You do realize a good chunk of the Poles in western poland are of german descent.
You're fucking retarded piece of shit and don't know anything about history of this region.

Shut the fuck up and leave.

You know there was a massive population transfer after ww2

Are they? I'm pretty sure Lwow is a joke

Polish-build part looks good.

That's the only place people visit there.

Poland tried to convert ukraine and belarus to catholicism for centuries. Also they made ukrainians hate Russians belarussians go WE WUZ LITVINS N SHIET and made them have their own cultural identity even though they considered themselves Russian until the 1920s.

>Poland tried to convert ukraine and belarus to catholicism for centuries. Also they made ukrainians hate Russians belarussians go WE WUZ LITVINS N SHIET and made them have their own cultural identity even though they considered themselves Russian until the 1920s.
Bullshit.
Poles didn't convert anyone, it was their own decision to convert.

And Russia didn't even exist when Poland got the Ukraine and Belarus.

Russia, as far as I know, has hundreds of ethnic groups, some them tiny, and almost all of them have their own autonomous republics, can promote their culture and language, and can participate in the Russian Federal government. Just look at Shoigu.
Most of the areas Russia expanded to were sparsely populated so there werent much conditions for Russia to assimilate other ethnic groups. At best they made them vassals of the tsar and let them go about their business.
>Russia
>Majority non ethnic Russians
Read history again you retard.

In fact it was Russians who were the cucks, not converting you poles to orthodoxy for one.

>In fact it was Russians who were the cucks, not converting you poles to orthodoxy for one.
The reason Russians couldn't russify Poles is because their culture is weaker and younger.

Not because they didn't try it.

>They converted themselves
LOL I cannot believe this bullshit! The whole point of conquering the peoples of the Rus was to convert them. It was done with violence due to the resistance of the cossacks. Also the Pilsudski government deliberately closed down orthodox churches in Belarus and ukraine.

>And Russia didn't even exist when Poland got the Ukraine and Belarus.
All of the population of the kievan Rus considered themselves Russian.

If their culture was so weak then why did they manage according to you to assimilate so many people but not poles? Also polish culture isnt older. Its the same age as Kievan Rus's culture.

>LOL I cannot believe this bullshit! The whole point of conquering the peoples of the Rus was to convert them. It was done with violence due to the resistance of the cossacks. Also the Pilsudski government deliberately closed down orthodox churches in Belarus and ukraine.
You're the one posting bullshit here, you orthodox sperg.

Cossacks were a warrior class of Polish Crown, not fucking Ukraine you stupid fuck.

And the main reason they chimped out is because they couldn't raid Ottoman Empire, which Polish King forbid them to do, the reason was a Polish-Ottoman non-agression treaty.

But once again Cossack niggers chimped out.

>All of the population of the kievan Rus considered themselves Russian.
You can consider yourself an ape for what I care. Muh kievan rus. Where is it now?
Because Kievan Rus doesn't have anything to do with Muscovy you absolute fucking cretin.

And did you seriously just compare the most advanced country of its time to some fucking steppe-niggers that Russians were converting and assimilating?

Kys, don't talk to me again.

>Because Kievan Rus doesn't have anything to do with Muscovy you absolute fucking cretin.
>Kievan Rus
>A multitude of Russian principalities
> Mongol invasion comes
> Kievan Knyazes conquered
>Danail Galitskiy cucks himself to Catholics
> Moscow is the only nominally independent principality
> Moscow liberates and other Russian principalities from tatars and poles
>Moscow restores Russian unity not found since the Kievan Rus
Moscow has everything to do with Kievan Rus you shitbrained pshek

> Muh kievan rus. Where is it now?
Its in the form of Russia

> most advanced country of its time
You mean another fuedal catholic state continuing drang nach osten?

>warrior class of Polish Crown
You cant make this shit up. Cossacks were escaped serfs who rebelled against polish atrocities and tried to create an independent orthodox state in the Ukriane in order to protect from catholic incursion, crimean tatar raids and russian inavsions. They then united with the Russians except hetman Mazepa.

>Kys, don't talk to me again.
Why would I want to kms when pshek scum will never chimp out in Rus again?

>All of the population of the kievan Rus considered themselves Russian.

source for this claim?

You don't get to bring friends.

>Moscow has everything to do with Kievan Rus

lolno
Moscow was a shitty backwater duchy that adopted authoritharian mongol culture and fucked over civilized places like Novogrod.

You know that area in Lithuania in OP map is result of Lithuanians polonizing?

>You know that area in Lithuania in OP map is result of Lithuanians polonizing?
Lithuanians polonized themselves not got forced to it.

I doubt that Germans today are very butthrt about that

And that's why user isn't using the modern German flag

tush

>Just look at Russia, it assimilated everyone around them
lol

It did

At first Uzbeg did not want to empower Moscow. In 1327, the Baskaki Shevkal, cousin of Uzbeg, arrived in Tver from the Horde, with a large retinue. They took up residence at Aleksander's palace. Rumors spread that Shevkal wanted to occupy the throne for himself and introduce Islam to the city. When, on 15 August 1327, the Mongols tried to take a horse from a deacon named Dyudko, he cried for help and a mob of furious people fell on the Tatars and killed them all. Shevkal and his remaining guards were burnt alive. Thus Uzbeg Khan began backing Moscow as the leading Russian state. Ivan I Kalita was granted the title of grand prince and given the right to collect taxes from other Russian potentates. The Khan also sent Ivan at the head of an army of 50,000 soldiers to punish Tver

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde

Gonna have to bookmark this page so ruusians and putinboos on this site stop lying about their past

Expansion =/= Assimilation

They speak Russian.

>Moscow has everything to do with Kievan Rus
And HRE has everything to do with Roman Empire

>Lithuanians polonized themselves not got forced to it.

Shit meme, Church acted as Polish agency full of Poles they refused to hold sermons in Lithuanian and refused to baptize people in Lithuanian names. Only ones who polonized themselves willingly were nobles.

Grand dutchy didn't even speak in Lithuanian but in Ruthenian.

Lithuanians were weak minority in their own country.

>Grand dutchy didn't even speak in Lithuanian but in Ruthenian.

But they did in pretty much the same area as it is today, lower class nobles and peasantry only spoke Lithuanian, upper class nobility spoke Polish. Ruthenians was only used in Ruthenian territories. All the Grand dukes up until Alexander Jagiellon spoke Lithuanian after him all spoke Polish.

It doesn't mean Lithuanian nobles were forced to Polonize.

They simply chose to.

Nobles yes, but lower class and peasantry especially at the end of 19th century and at the start of 20th were increasingly getting polonized due to Poles holding power on Catholic Church in Lithuania, there were even conflicts, escalating into fights.

>The Polonization of Church life in southwestern Lithuania made its greatest advances during Bishop Pawel Straszyński's ten year (1837-1847) reign as Bishop of Sejny. Concerned with reforming the lax standards in the liturgy, Straszyński reformed the church services; however, in doing so, he also abolished Lithuanian sermons and services in many parishes of the diocese.28 Bishop Straszyński not only failed to learn the language spoken by over half of his flock, but was reported to have openly and publicly insulted Lithuanian as a "language of sheep," a derogatory expression not uncommon at the time.29 In addition, Straszyński assigned many Poles to Lithuanian parishes, ending the former policy of taking language into account in appointing pastors.30 Polujanski, while praising the bishop's administrative abilities, vehemently criticized Straszyński's "hatred of the people's language" in his 1859 travelogue of Augustów province; he was convinced that the attempt to drive out the long-standing tradition of Lithuanian church services was responsible for the peasants' lack of respect for their bishop.31 At least some Lithuanian peasants never quite forgot Straszyński's "reforms;" in 1906, a petition to the Sejny diocese asking for the return of Lithuanian-language church services stated that "as our grandfathers tell us, the rosary and other hymns were sung in Lithuanian long ago, but during Bishop Straszyński's time, the Poles took the rosary away from us."32 Despite peasant resentment against Straszyński's policies, the language controversy in the churches of southwestern Lithuania took on a violent and bitter form only at the turn of the 20th century.

Not to forget in 19th century when literacy was fairly low Church held great power among peasants in what language they speak/hold cermons and etc.

You have no idea what are you talking about, haven't you?
In Poland in '60's they still hold masses/ceremonies in fucking Latin.
Source: my mother was child back then, also confirmed by grandma
Well, it seems they were "laticized", and they didn't even know about it

They're not called poles. They're called pollacks, as evidenced by hamlet. But pollack became a derogatory term as portrayed by archie bunker, so everyone (someone) changed the English demonym for polish people.

It's true.

In Polish it's "Polak" for male and 'Polka" for female.

I think you might need to get your eyes checked retard. I'm talking about a time when vast majority of peasantry were illiterate and the only form of "education" they received was from church and you're comparing it to 60's.

If you think Church didn't play a role in Polonization either you're in denial, guilliable or don't know anything about this subject at all.

...

Sounds like the writers grew up around pollacks. They are pretty dumb

but it's not

>It was done with violence due to the resistance of the cossacks.
>Implying that cossacks caused rebellions for religious reasons and not because they wanted to join nobility and get such privileges

>All the Grand dukes up until Alexander Jagiellon spoke Lithuanian after him all spoke Polish.
That's because Grand Dukes since Alexander Jagiellon were all from Polish Jagiellon dynasty, and Grand Dukes were (if my memory serves me right) either second sons of ruling king or the first in line of succession to Polish crown.

>Polish Jagiellon dynasty

They've become Polish once Jagiello decided to Polonize himself.

What's so hard to understand?

>Polonize himself

He merely accepted Polish crown for his own interests not because he wanted to be Polish. Nor he or his descendants strictly stated that they're only Polish. They didn't even have any Polish blood and nationality as in modern sense didn't exist back then.

They weren't Lithuanian either, you we-wuzing nigger.
Poland had more nationhood sense than any other country back then.

And he accepted Polish language, culture and his nobility became Poles.

>They weren't Lithuanian either, you we-wuzing nigger.

I didn't say that or claim that. But considering he had Lithuanian name, lived in Lithuania until the age of 35, spoke Lithuanian. Wasn't Lithuanian while he Lived in Lithuania, but suddenly when he moved to Poland he became Polish, okay got it.
>Poland had more nationhood sense than any other country back then.

WE WUZ

>And he accepted Polish language, culture and his nobility became Poles.

The thing is he didn't even lean to speak Polish even at somewhat decent level even at the times of his own death according to Długosz.

>his nobility became Poles.

Okay.

Poles and most Slavs in general are butthurt about history to the point of having a complex. This complex is a system wherein all of their neighbors hate them, however they believe they never did anything wrong to them and are thus unjustly despised, so they take to shilling for their nation routinely. And starting world wars. For examples of this please see: Russia, Serbia and Poland.

Give me examples and sources of Poland doing anything as bad as Germany and Russia.
Fun fact.

Jagiellons became relevant only after they became Polish.

>Jagiellons became relevant only after they became Polish.

What a twist, truly unbelievable, you think it might have to do something with the fact that Jagiellon dynasty didn't exist prior the first Jagiello himself becoming King of Poland?

Just shows how insignificant Lithuania was.

Because some Polish gasterbeiter considers it irrelevant? As if Poland is any better.

You overestimate importance of Poland too, a shitty regional power in Eastern Europe, Lithuania included.

You sound butthurt.

Crown of the Kingdom of Poland was important for stability in that region. It was important for Christianity.

No I'm just stating what it is, Poland was insignificant backwater regional power which got absorbed by their neighbors and it's economy was solely based on agriculture mainly grain export. Even 1x1 it would have got raped by either Austria/Prussia/Russia. In it's last years it's army merely numbered like 40k while they had numbers in hundreds of thousands.

My mistake they had even smaller army.

>Due to insufficient taxation, the military was often not paid properly, which led to a relatively small army size; in mid-18th century, the Commonwealth had funds to field an army of around 24,000, whereas the Commonwealth's neighbors' armies were often up to 12 times larger: the Imperial Russian Army numbered 300,000; the Prussian Army and Imperial Austrian Army, 150,000,[23] and a few decades later, the Commonwealth could field an army of about 16,000, with Prussian and Austrian armies rising to 200,000

Kievan Rus is historic term to refer to time period, it was not called like that when existed, it was called just Rus. Kiev stopped being main political center in 12th century, century before Mongolian invasion. And Kiev was not the first capital of Rus, Novgorod was.

Those territories were historically polish. All of western Poland was basically the core of the kingdom when it was founded, and the eastern territories were polish lands for as long as the kingdom itself existed.

As specially Lwow

Main reason for that, is that Poland didn't conscript peasants for army. So yes, in forcing people to military service Poland was indeed backwater.
Also, no one argues, that Poland was weak in 18th century. You just cherry picked the moment in history, when it was weakest, it works for everyone. Example:
Roman Empire was irrelevant and was easily raped by barbarians.

>LOL I cannot believe this bullshit! The whole point of conquering the peoples of the Rus was to convert them.

thats funny, considering Poland didn't conquer it... retard. The only reason Ukraine was transered to Poland from Lithuania was native nobility, which craved influence and to be closer to the main seat of power. Wisniowieckis were tracing their ancestry to Rurik, for example.

Polish theology opposed forced conversions since the Lithuanian-Teutonic Knight conflict (see Jan of Ostroróg). Tatars, who were lifted from luithuanian slavery were free to practice Islam, for example. Only reason Ukrainian nobility polonized and converted was typical Eastern greed. Don't even deal with it, you assblasted mongoloid. xD

>Also they made ukrainians hate Russians belarussians go WE WUZ LITVINS N SHIET

They were the Lithuanians. Lithuanian elites turned Belorussian by the time they forged a union with Poland. They spoke the language as natives.

>even though they considered themselves Russian until the 1920s.

Under Russian empire propaganda and repression.

>In fact it was Russians who were the cucks, not converting you poles to orthodoxy for one.

Orthodoxy is a weak religion incapable of theological struggle, thats why it hides behind state violence. Especially Russian Orthodoxy was piss poor in terms of theory and preaching. Most of orthodox wirtings untill 17th century originated from Polish-owned Ukraine.

>>As specially Lwow
Was Polish kingdom established in 1340?
And why the province with Lwow was called Russian Voivodeship (Latin: Palatinatus russiae, Polish: Wojewodztwo ruskie)?

ruskie != russian, because
rosyjskie = russian
that's false friend
ruskie = ruthenian

It's even in fucking wiki called Ruthenian Voivodeship, so you just tried to sell bullshit

Go to "full"chan pol. Look ad deutsch thread. Come back to me and tell me krauts aren't mad as fuck.

The national-minded ones pretty much seethe with autismal rage.

The city was nothing but a wooden castle. It was only after the polish conquest that the city has it's contemporary aspect. Polish culture, polish architecture, and polish history is what the city is based on

same with Kiev/Kijow.

it got city rights from a Polish king

>Tatars, who were lifted from luithuanian slavery were free to practice Islam,
>slavery

Polish revionism at it's best.

Bad meme, Tatars were free to practice Islam, first wave of Tatars and sought asylum, then some were later brought after campaigns of Vytautas and later served as his bodyguards because they were foreigners and weren't involved in internal politics, because majority of Grand Dukes were assassinated due to internal conflicts before.

Also they belonged to noble military caste, but also later were revered for craft skills horses, and gardening. They were in no way slaves.

>Lithuanian elites turned Belorussian by the time they forged a union with Poland.

Another bad meme, only "elites" who assimilated were those who were sent to rule Ruthenian territories. Those who stayed in Lithuania spoke Lithuanian/Polish. Not a single Grand Duke was Ruthenian prior Union.

I never said Lithuanians didn't let them practice Islam. I said Commonwealth let them practice a different religion that Catholicism. Much more distant than orthodoxy.

>then some were later brought after campaigns of Vytautas

Slaves. Yeah. People in no position to demand shit.

>Not a single Grand Duke was Ruthenian prior Union.

Of course. Just spoke the language, had document compiled in the language and took on ruski names.

You know what;s revisionist? "Wah wah, Poles tried to assimilate us!!!"

>Slaves. Yeah. People in no position to demand shit.

Yeah they were such slaves.

>People in no position to demand shit.
Who do you think realistically could demand shit from King/Grand Duke in medieval times? Are you dense?

> Towards the end of the 14th century, another wave of Tatars – this time, Muslims, were invited into the Grand Duchy by Vytautas the Great. These Tatars first settled in Lithuania proper around Vilnius, Trakai, Hrodna and Kaunas [5] and later spread to other parts of the Grand Duchy that later became part of Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth.

>Beginning in the late 18th and throughout the 19th century the Lipkas became successively more and more Polonized. The upper and middle classes in particular adopted Polish language and customs (although they kept Islam as their religion), while the lower ranks became Ruthenized. At the same time, the Tatars held the Lithuanian Grand Duke Vytautas (Wattad in Tatar, or "defender of Muslims in non Muslim lands"), who encouraged and supported their settlement during the 15th century, in great esteem, including him in many legends, prayers and their folklore.

Post more I need more revionism.

I don't really care about tatars' status, since the main arguement was they were allahu snackbar. Maybe I read it wrong ages ago.

Its good we can admit we were wrong. Like when you dont adress the Belorussification of your dukes. :^)

>Belorussification
>Belrusian identity or language existing in GDL times

KEK

Russiae in Latin is Russia, and it's in Latin name of the province.

Also:

Czech: russian=ruský
Slovak: russian=ruský
Russian: russian=russkij
Croatian: russian=ruski
Bulgarian russian=ruski

rosyjskie is derivative from Rosja (Rossija), but the word "Rossija" apperead only in 16th century and became widespread only in 18th century.
So word "rosyjskie" appeared in Polish language much later than 15th century when the province was named.

Rus is literally same shit as Russia with Latin suffix ending -ia, like it is added to many country names, BulgarIA, MacedonIA etc.

Grody Czerwieńskie were fist recorded in Rus sources, Пoвѣcть вpeмѧньныхъ лѣтъ, to be taken away from Poles in 981 by Ruthenians and then retaken in 110 or so. In 1031 they were taken by Rus again and the resident Lechitic people were supposedly resettled near Kiev so they wouldn't try to separate again. That's how that area was joined to the Red Rus realm.

So basically you were the original aggressors and Poles were natives. The rRus chronicle even says about the Rus forces "they devastated the lechite land". Not that a ruski fuck would ever acknowledge that.

>In fact it was Russians who were the cucks, not converting you poles to orthodoxy for one.
Do you realize that Poland was a more or less a homogenous nation state since 10th century? It's one of the countries with the strongest national identity in Europe, it's impossible to convert them to anything, many tried, all failed.

It's like trying to converting the French to be German or something, makes 0 sense.

>> Moscow is the only nominally independent principality
Moscow wasn't nominally independent, it was a vassal of the Golden Horde.

Vyatichi tribe were also called Lechitic in the same source and they founded Moscow city. So what?

So Moscow is a bit further appart from Poland than Grody Czerwieńskie and the chance its the same people grows approximately. You don't address the other stuff either.

russian = rosyjski
ruthenian = ruski

Again, Polish language changed since that time. Word "rosyjski" didn't exist in 15th century and "ruski" meant russian.

no, ruski meant ruthenian

there was no Russia in 15th century, there was only Ruthenia(Ruś)

Because all lands belong to Poland.

I think Poles knew their shit, when their used to call part of their kingdom "Ruthenia".
Obvious part of "Modern Russians" would be called "Moskale" back then, not "Ruskie"

I think Poles knew their shit, when they used to call part of their kingdom "Ruthenia(Ruś)".
Obvious part of "Modern Russians" would be called "Moskale" back then, not "Ruskie". And even later, "Russia" would be still called "Moskwa"

So Ruthenia(Rus) existed in 15th century.
Tell me, does Ruthenia(Rus) exist now?
If yes, then where?
If no, then in what year it disappeared?

>If no, then in what year it disappeared?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truce_of_Andrusovo
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

Ruś(Ruthenia) - Ukraine and Belarus.
Rosja(Russia) - Russia.

We differentiate between "ruski"(Ruthenian) and "rosyjski"(Russian). Where's Ruthenian language now? It got replaced of course.

You gave links to articles about 4 events. What should we understand from that?
Poland was Ruthenia? And it disappeared after partitioning?

>We differentiate
Yes, of course
διαίρει kαὶ βασίλευε diaírei kài basíleue - dīvide et īmpera - divide and rule

Sorry, it's a few centuries late for Poland to rule.

And where is Galicia? Austria was Galicia? Did it disappear after WW1?