I spent my entire life on creating this realm

>Charlemagne
>German

As a french i'm triggered by this.

He was though

I meant "German" as a tribe.

Not in a modern sense.

Explain? He was born in what is modern day Germany and spoke Old High German.

How is he not German?

Why create big state if there no goal to save it?

Nobody can tell for certain where he was born, he could've been born in Belgium. And most of the modern-day Germany wasn't even part of the Frankish realm at his birth, but instead it was France and Benelux.

France and Germany can both equally claim him as their own because both countries came to be from the fragmentation of his empire.

GERMANIC != GERMAN
HOLY FUCK YOU ARE ALL RETARDED.

Why does anyone get rich if the wealth will be split among his descendants?

Yes, he wasn't just Germanic, but specifically German.

German didn't exist back then nor French.
He was neither French or German.
Just Frank.
And since "German" and "French" are successors states you can say that they both inherit from it's legacy.

The relation of Franks with modern Germans isn't just both of them being Germanic; Franks are one of those people who later became German. The period of Charlemagne's reign can be seen as an early beginning of the formation of a common 'German' identity of the continental West Germanic tribes.

Conquest is very long-termed investition, for descendants. Easier stay home If your goal is personal wealth.

>Slaves
Why do retards do this?

He was Frank, king of the Franks, his father was the king of the Franks whose capital city was Paris, his Grandfather was Charles Martel. The Kingdom of the Franks later gave birth to the Kingdom of France.

Why isn't France german then ?

ITT: stupid people mixing up mother tongues, languages, affiliation to a tribe or nation, medieval kingdoms and modern-day nation states.

I thought Franks were a Germanic people that later became French.

this is true

>Alfred the Great
>born in England
>spent most of his time in England
>ruled a kingdom in England
>spoke Old English
>English

>Charlemagne the Great
>born in Germany
>spent most of his time in Germany
>ruled a kingdom in Germany
>spoke Old High German
>not German

Explain, Veeky Forums.

>>Charlemagne the Great
seriously

>Charlemagne the Great
>couldn't read

Because the Franks in Gaul were a small elite that got absorbed by the Gallo-Romanic. They abandoned their language and adoped the Romance tongues of their environments

This wasn't the case in the East, were the Frankish language evolved into the Frankish dialects of German and Dutch

Not necessary when you have people around you reading for you whenever you want.

Alfred was a saxon

>if there no goal to save it?
That was their intention with splitting it. The end result of this kind of partitioning was usually the strongest son dominating the others without direct conflict. The alternative was to leave them with nothing and risk civil war, weakening the state. Plus they weren't subhumans like the Turks who simply murdered all of their siblings to prevent the issue.

Wow dude, are you litteraly saying that the germanic tribes were an elite ? Don't you know that medieval Europe was a multiethnic, multiracial and multicultural place ? Black people were everywhere and well accepted ans i can't accept the fact that you just said that the germans are somehow "superior". That's litteraly Hitler's way of thinking, what kind of nazi are you ?

Nice one

He was king of Wessex and descendant of the Saxons, but also the first king to call himself king of the Anglo-Saxons, that is the main ethnic group that spawned modern-day English and other Brits.

>>>/reddit/

You took the bait.

>Explain, Veeky Forums.
Very well.
>Charlemagne the Great
You're wrong here already
>Born in Germany
Debatable. Both Liège in modern day Belgium and Aachen are likely contenders among others, so we don't know 100% sure where he was born.
>Spent most of his time in Germany
Yes, but here's the important thing: when Charlemagne ascended to the throne in 768, Paris (you might've heard of it before) had been the capital for 160 years. He moved the capital to Aachen as a point of convenience, and actually made it a joint capital with Rome. It's not unlikely he spent about as much time in Italy as he did in Germany. 50% Italian?
>ruled a kingdom in Germany
Like I said, Paris was the capital until he moved it. Frankish territory prior to Charlemagne's conquests corresponded mostly with Gaul or modern day France and Belgium.
>spoke Old High German
The Rhenish Franconian dialect of German actually. Your point being? High German doesn't automatically mean modern German, as Dutch and whatever the fuck is spoken in Switzerland are High German languages too. In fact, with the original Franks (under Clovis) having settled in Belgium it'd be easier to make the argument that this makes Charlemagne Dutch (consider Dutch evolved from Franconian dialects).
>Not German
Not if the Germans themselves are to be believed. 20th century German nationalists compared Charlemagne's conquest of the Saxons to Germany's defeat in WW1 and considered him a French invader. Then there's also the entire point of the modern nation of Francia/Frankreich as well as the fact that the medieval kings of France were called "Rex Francorum", referred to as Franks by others and maintained Frankish customs associated with their royalty (for example, all but three Frankish/French kings, from Clovis I to Louis XVIII, were burried in the Saint Denis Cathedral).

Any argument to make Charlemagne German rely on the Germanic = German fallacy.

You act as if Charlemagne divided his empire up.
You act as if the empire wasnt reunited after being divided.
You act as if the forces tearing these areas apart were not much stronger than what was keeping it together.

And the eastern part of his realm would later become the Kingdom of Germany.

Both Germany and France owe their inception to Charlemagne and the Karlings.

FUCK YOU GERMANIGGER LYING SCUMS

You're Bavarians, Swabians, Saxons, and Slavs, not Franks.
I hate you so much hypocritical liars, EXPLAIN link related :
Widukind became a hero for German nationalists in the early 20th century. German neo-pagans saw him as an heroic defender of Germany's traditional beliefs and their gods, resisting the Middle Eastern religion of Christianity. Christian nationalists also lauded him, linking Charlemagne with the humiliation of French domination after World War I, especially the occupation of the Rhineland, portraying Charlemagne as a "French" invader.[6]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind#In_German_nationalism

Also the Carolingian Illuminated Manuscripts show that the Franks are just like modern French, while the germaniggers don't look like them at all, and Eginhard a Frankish historian clearly stated in the Frankish
Royal Annals that :

Quales numquam antea in gente Francorum visi fuissent, in pulchritudine videlicet ac proceritate corporum.

In that battle such men are said to have been killed among the Northmen(and Saxons) as had never been seen before among the Franks, namely in their beauty(bright features) and the size of their bodies

EXPLAIN GERMANIGGERS ! WHY YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE THE FRANKS ? WHY YOU LOOK LIKE THE NORDIC INVADERS INSTEAD ? WHY YOUR GRANDFATHERS CALL CHARLEMAGNE, A FRENCH INVADER, IF HE IS GERMAN ?

EXPLAIN !!!!

Franks confirmed as non-blond haired and non blue-eyed, and as non-tall.

>Germans
>Blonde

LMAO

I went to Hamburg and i saw a sea of blond hair and light eyes, trying to lie to you neighbour is meaningless m8

Anyway even if it was true you can't the fact that all Germans are tall, your average height is 183cm.

nice autism fit

>You're Bavarians, Swabians, Saxons, and Slavs, not Franks.

Franks were traditionally seen as one of the tribes who later became Germans and parts of Western Germany were in fact inhabited by them.

>EXPLAIN link related
Some fringe right-wing occultists who were told off even by Hitler. Germans cultivated the memory of Charlemagne (see monuments in Aachen) and often saw him as a German or ancestor of Germans.

>namely in their beauty(bright features)
>(bright features)

That was added by you.

Meanwhile, the French wikipedia cites a 5th century annalist

>Ils ont la taille haute, la peau blanche, les yeux bleus, ils se rasent entièrement le visage, sauf la lèvre supérieure où ils laissent pousser deux petites moustaches ; leurs cheveux, courts derrière et longs devant, sont d'une blondeur admirable ;

>tall, fair skin, blue eyes, blonde hair

fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francs#Physionomie

>And among Germans it was customary for a landowner to divide his land equally amongst his sons.
This.

Dividing possessions equally was a specifically Germanic thing. The primogeniture where only the eldest son inherits is in medieval German literature mentioned as a foreign custom.

To quote Wolfram von Eschenbach on the matter:

>NOW they do to-day as of old time,
>where a foreign law holds sway
>(Yea, in part of our German kingdom,
>as ye oft shall have heard men say),
>Whoever might rule that country,
>'twas the law, and none thought it shame
>('Tis the truth and no lie I tell ye)
>that the elder son might claim
>The whole of his father's heirdom—
>And the younger sons must grieve,
>What was theirs in their father's lifetime,
>they perforce at his death must leave.
>Before, all was theirs in common,
>now it fell unto one alone.
>So a wise man planned in his wisdom,
>that the eldest the lands should own,
>For youth it hath many a fair gift,
>but old age knoweth grief and pain,
>And he who is poor in his old age
>an ill harvest alone doth gain.
>Kings, Counts, Dukes (and no lie I tell ye)
>the law holdeth all as one,
>And no man of them all may inherit,
>save only the eldest son,
>And methinks 'tis an evil custom—
>So the knight in his youthful pride,
>Gamuret, the gallant hero,
>lost his Burg, and his fair lands wide,
>Where his father had ruled with sceptre
>and crown as a mighty king,
>Till knighthood, and lust of battle,
>to his death did the monarch bring.

btw, it's noteworthy that some French scholars, such as Emmanuel Sieyès, one of the most influental theorists of the French revolution, also used to disdain the Franks. The Franks (and thus the French nobility who were descended from them) were portrayed as foreign barbarian invaders who oppressed the Gallic population

>>Ils ont la taille haute, la peau blanche, les yeux bleus, ils se rasent entièrement le visage, sauf la lèvre supérieure où ils laissent pousser deux petites moustaches ; leurs cheveux, courts derrière et longs devant, sont d'une blondeur admirable ;

I just checked the author speak about a random guys not the Franks, nice lie m8

The Revolution was led by kikes, French tried to remove them(see : Catholic and Royal Armies), and removed them after that during The Commune's massacre.

Fuck off retards, he was neither French nor German since both these people appeared in the 9th century

>I meant "German" as a tribe.
Literally kys
Germanic =/= German

>William le Conqueror
>born in France
>spent most of his time in France
>ruled a Duchy in France
>spoke Old French
>Danish

Explain yourselves Britbongs

Yeah but he came from old Germania and the kingdom of France may have been ruled by Franks but it was populated by all sorts of other desendants from Gaullic tribes as well as Celts

Reminder that Germanic tribes did originate from Scandinavia, not from Germany
Germany is merely a place they conquered
Native people from that region were black haired (which is why many Germans still are)

>I just checked the author speak about a random guys not the Franks, nice lie m8
nice damage control, but what's got a random screencap by a different author?

>the benefits of Latin education have changed them, without taking away their germanic grace, their blue eyes and blonde hair

Correct?

Also, it's not my "lie", several french sources on the web say that this is a description of Franks

>The Revolution was led by kikes
lel

Delete this

My bad i didn't saw it was Siddoine.

Anyway, i didn't found the quotation in his works, and although he mentioned many times the blond color and blue color, he never linked them to the Franks.

See this

he was prussian

>Charlemagne the Great
>Charles the Great the Great
A bit redundant redundant.

His name is Charlie der Grob.

Carolus Magnus*

Nice double dubs, but do you happen to realise how many different capitals the Roman Empire had throughout its existence?

Literally what

Pardon.

He's real Frank name is Karl the Man.

Sieyès was anti-aristocracy, of course he had to shit on the origins of the french king.
The real republican myths is funded on the battle against Rome.

Rollon married a french women like most of his children, Guillaume was something like 80% french himself if you look at his genealogical tree.
If the vikings settled with their women it could have been different but they totally melted with the population and culturally assimilated.
The "Normand = not french" meme is anglo revisionnism as its finest, just like they won the 7 years old war all by themselves and how they defeated Napoléon in Waterloo (protip: the prussians did all the work in these two wars).

I know senpai
I was merely trolling Brits who claim Normans werent French

Why Charlemagne didn't take Brittany ?

same reason Caesar didn't

Celts stronk

Asterix and Obelix?

No such thing.

Yes

Are the French the biggest "we wuzzes"?

>NORMANS WERE FRENCH
>CHARLEMAGNE WAS FRENCH
>NAPOLEON WAS FRENCH

kek. I'm not surprised at all actually since their capital is basically Africa.

-Normans were Danish when they arrived in France, but were both genetically and culturally French by 1066

-Charlemagne was not French (nor German) since French ethnicity didnt exist before the 9th century

-Napoleon was culturally French, but ethnically Italian

What's so hard to understand?

Do you really believe your little "research" justifies editing the wiki article? kek

>but were both genetically and culturally French by 1066
Did they refer to themselves as "French"? Or rather as Normans?

The general East-West division (not so much Middle Francia but that one didn't last anyway) was based on an existing cultural and linguistic divide. The West was Romance having been under Roman influence far longer; the east was primarily Germanic.

Scythians = Franks in that context

and now undo your edit of the wiki article

There are German swarthy gnomes as well. Im Elsass zum Beispiel.

>genetically and culturally French by 1066
This. They were genetically mostly French, they spoke a Latin-based language and were Christians. Really fuck all do with the Vikings at that point.

So this... is the power... of autism

>I went to Hamburg
Go to Bavaria or Austria the next time.

I'd say Franken.

>Roman controlled by Pope
>Pope bestows the German King as Imperator of Rome and Christendom
>German King is now Emperor of Rome

wow that wasn't very hard to understand

French
Pic related

Wikipedia isn't your personal diary.

I edited it because it is bullshit, either you show me the source, or you recognize you're wrong, anyway, the Franks already said via Eginhard they weren't snow niggers, and the illuminated manuscripts show it, finally, since we, their descendents, don't look like snow niggers, the Franks weren't. Stay salty.

>Sythian are Franks

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHA

LOOK EVERYONE IT IS WRITTEN THAT ETHIOPIANS ARE NIGGERS THUS CHINESE ARE NIGGERS

I sumarized your logic for you

Stay mad subhuman

>French ethnicity

Nope we exist since Pharamond. It is the Germans who didn't existeed before we conquer all of them and allow them to become an united people.

>I edited it because it is bullshit

I don't even care that much about wikipedia, no one should take it too seriously (partly because of editors like you). However, one of the rules of the site is that original research is not desired, and that is what you did.

>we, their descendents, don't look like snow niggers

Not sure if serious. Modern French are mostly descended by Gallo-Romans, Franks make up only a small proportion of their ancestry. It's why French speak a Romance language today.

In those areas where there were more of them people look presumably more "snowniggerish".

>Stay salty
>writes in capslock

you are the one who appears to be salty kek

>>Sythian are Franks

Chroniclers of the ancient world used some ethnonyms extremely liberally/inacurately, Scythian is one of them. One time historians refered to Iranics as Scythians, other times even Goths were Scythians. In such cases, modern historians have to find out what people is actually meant. In this case, the historian (not a wannabe amateur like you) who compiled Sidonius' work came to the conclusion (most likely because of the context) that Franks were meant. See the foot note.

t. pope

The reason why the Carolinginans got so big with Charlemagne was because for a few generations the line of kings produced one heir. It was common practice among the Germanic kingdoms to split up property equally among heirs if there were, say, more than one heir like what happened later on with Charles' descendants.

>(not a wannabe amateur like you)

Commie historians can fuck off, you tried to do the same with the Russians during the USSR, and you do it everywhere in Europe, but you will never destroy our national identities :) In fact seeing the recent publication you're currently losing :)

>Modern French are mostly descended by Gallo-Romans

No proofs

And explain why there are more Frankish(Frankish is a celtic language by the way) terms in our language than Gaullish terms, if we're Gauls why isn't our language heavily influenced by Gaullish.

And the Gauls were blond haired and blue eyed according to Cesar, thus why aren't we Blond haired and blue eyed and why we look like the Franks instead ?

EXPLAIN

protip : you can't

>Nope we exist since Pharamond.

...and Northern Italians are Lombards

>Northern Italians are Lombards

IF you're genetically the same and look the same yes, anyway, what is your point ?

>Commie historians
paranoia

>Frankish is a celtic language by the way

...ahem

>if we're Gauls why isn't our language heavily influenced by Gaullish

After centuries of being in the Roman Empire, Vulgar Latin was the language of Gaul. Nevertheless, the Gaullish language did left a mark (substrate), educate yourself

>No proofs

As I said, the ruling minority adopted the language of the majority. Which sources suggest that Franks immigrated to Gaul to a degree where they demographically replace them (but adopt their language for some reason anyway)?

Why would the original Franks look so different from closely related Germanic peoples anyway?

>And the Gauls were blond haired and blue eyed according to Cesar, thus why aren't we Blond haired and blue eyed

I'm not sure whether fair hair was really that common, some of it was a matter of perspective, the Mediterraneans would describe the Gauls as fair because they had lighter features than themselves. Caesar also mentions that the Gauls practized bleaching of their hair. To a certain extent, mixing with Romans colonists might have made the inhabitants of Gaul a bit darker, too.

>No proofs
haplogroups

French don't have a particularly Germanic haplogroup profile

>Caesar also mentions that the Gauls practized bleaching of their hair.
Nope he didn't it is Diodorus Siculus, and he said taht Gauls were indeed blond but they also bleached them.

>Diodorus Siculus
The Gauls are tall of body with rippling muscles and white of skin and their hair is blond, and NOT ONLY naturally so for they also make it their practice by artificial means to increase the distinguishing colour which nature has given it. For they are always washing their hair in limewater and they pull it back from the forehead to the nape of the neck, with the result that their appearance is like that of Satyrs and Pans since the treatment of their hair makes it so heavy and coarse that it differs in no respect from the mane of horses".

>Ammianus Marcellinus, The History, 15.12
Nearly all the Gauls are of a lofty stature, fair, and of ruddy complexion; terrible from the sternness of their eyes, very quarrelsome, and of great pride and insolence. A whole troop of foreigners would not be able to withstand a single Gaul if he called his wife to his assistance, who is usually very strong, and with blue eyes; especially when, swelling her neck, gnashing her teeth, and brandishing her sallow arms of enormous size, she begins to strike blows mingled with kicks, as if they were so many missiles sent from the string of a catapult.

Anyway most of the French aren't tall and don't have blue eyes and blond hair, we aren't Gauls deal with it and stop spreading this republicuck meme.