TAX

it is tax free if you buy btc and let it stay in your wallet for 1 year, but trading is taxable. EVERY FUCKING TRADE

So if I want to buy ETH with BTC i must pay taxes? Fugggg, of all the countries in EU I decided to go to Germany.

where are you from originally if you dont mind me asking?

Fellow german here,
so far cryptocurrency profit is considered as adventure. Hence you will only have to pay tax if you cashout within 1 year after you bought the coins. All kind of tax are invalid after 1 year and everything belongs to you.

Kryptowährungen fallen gleich als Spekulationsgeschäfte. Google den scheiß. Ich hoffe nur das es nicht noch stärker reguliert wird. Scheiß soziale marktwirtschaft

>tfw born in croatia
>tfw government too retarded to know about cryptocurrencies

hehe

sobald größere Smmen auf deinem Konto landen und du mal irgendwo die Auszüge vorlegen musst bist du so gefickt wie man nur gefickt sein kann. Entweder du zahlst Steuern, oder, das hängt von deinem Profit/Handelsvolumen ab, eröffnest eine "Firma" im Ausland über die du dann Tradest und keine bis wenige steuern zahlst

Ich habe ein ähnliches Problem.

Über die letzten Monate habe ich ziemlich gute Profite mit Altmünzen machen können, weiß aber nicht, wie ich größere Summen in EUR auf mein Konto kriegen soll, ohne, dass jemand nachfragt.

Wie stelle ich das am besten an, ohne, dass der Finanzjude mir auf die Finger schaut und meine Shekel klaut?

Wenn ich das ganze langsam (über Monate) abhebe, sollte doch nichts passieren, oder?

Danke und Sieg Heil

Fuck that noise, you'll just be paying for niggers' welfare

lmao 45% tax rate
this is why austria will always be better ;)

Dein steuerlicher Freibetrag beträgt 801€ pro Jahr. Normalerweise sollte nichts passieren, kommt natürlich auch auf die Summen an und sobald du irgendwann mal Kontoauszüge vorlegen musst wird dein süßer arsch gefickt. Hast du schonmal eine Steuererklärung abgegeben?

>Austria
>not Germany

Nice try

Österreich IST Deutschland du Duckmäuserich

I transferred a bit to my bank account and nothing happened. Were just a few hundred Euros tho. Probably the banks take a closer look when you hit an estimated sum. Cash out slowly and over a longer time an not too much at once.

Mein Steuerberater macht praktisch alles.
Mein Autismus ist nicht groß genug, um durch diese Berge von Akten zu forsten.

Ich werde ihn beim nächsten Treffen um Rat bitten.

801€ pro Jahr ist jämmerlich, da werde ich ja im Leben nicht fertig.

>paying taxes on transactions that the government will never find out about

Why bother? You really think the grossly incompetent government is going to track some faggy teenagers crypto earnings?

Commerzbank Beraterjude hier. Irgendwelche konkrete Fragen?

Wird deine Stelle gestrichen oder bist du safe

>grossly incompetent
you have a point there

Does this also apply to altcoins?

>after 1 year

So you are telling me to gamble in the crypto market for one year, and then cash out?

This seems really risky.

Ab wann wird die Bank/Finanzamt Aufmerksam?

atleast 1 year into crypto to avoid tax
than again
how could they find out about the dates
everything related to coins is a bigass gray zone
The Finanzamt or State/goverment only knows about those traders, whom have themself announced in their tax declaration.

And 1 year goes by fast. Really fast. It felt for me tho, cuz I am out of that tax thing anyway. Well, aslong no new laws pop out of nowhere since germany is nothing but a desert for business and a busy authorities jungel.

>try to find info about taxes or legislation regarding cryptocurrency in my country
>absolutely nothing available

T-thanks.

If it involves tax, they WILL find out about it, one way or another

you could become a citizen in a country with little or no crypto tax at all, like denmark, but you'll have to forfeit your previous citizenship for this to work

otherwise you have to launder your cash, buy drugs and sell on street

>tfw just found out even if I'm not a citizen after 6 months I will have to pay taxes for worldwide income (gewöhnlicher Aufenthalt)

Mein Gott! I need to register in Kraken ASAP.

das mit 1 jahr funktioniert aber nur wenn du mit den Bitcoins nicht tradest. zb. 2015 1 btc für 1000 gekauft und 2016 verkauft du den btc für 2000 Das is steuerfrei. Wenn du jetzt aber damit altcoins handelst und mehr btc zusammentradest musst du steuern zahlen.

nach kurzer recherche (jedoch nicht so stichhaltig) ist das auch die allgemeine meinung im netz, jeder altcoin trade ist eine "neuanschaffung" und der gewinn der daraus resultiert muss direkt versteuert werden (theoretisch).

Bei mir kommt jetzt aber das problem auf, dass ich nen trading bot nutze, der mit micro-trades den spread ausnutzt. Soll ich dem Finanzamt dann ne csv mit millionen von transaktionen schicken wenn ich meine BTC in fiat verkaufe? ähm... die werden sich freuen!

You guys are so fucking stupid I don't even believe it... Paying taxes on crypto? Are you MAD??? NO WAY am I ever paying a CENT in taxes on crypto!
Nobody knows JACKSHIT about my crypto...

End game? Buy gold and silver with my gains online.. Bitgild.com

oh and then secretly sell the gold on the streets to some crackhead? good luck with that...

Mhh bei einmaligen hohe Beträge aus dem Ausland. So ab 50-100k oder regelmäßige Beträge. Deswegen würde ich empfehlen einfach alles auf einmal auszucashen. Smurfing fällt nämlich eher auf. Wenn ich sehe dass jemand einmal eine hohe Summe (sagen wir mal 30k€) aus Slowenien bekommt dann kann das ja einen normalen Grund haben. Aber IN Abständen, zB alle 1-3 Monate ein paar tausend melde ich.
Ich selbst hab nur einmal eine GWG Verdachtsmeldung abgegeben und das weil ein türkische Hinterhofhandyladen aufeinmal 2x 100k€ Überweisungen aus Luxemburg bekam.

He'll be able to sell it..at a reduced price, but still. He could keep his money under the rug.

I do think that if anyone sells it and it gets on their bank account there's a 95% the IRS man will come by, take his cut and fine you tremendously.

Be cautious anons and pay yo' taxes you scumbags!

Are you retarded??? Go in to a local coin shop and exchange your gold for CASH.. it's that fucking simple....

Can't believe people are so stupid, damn

Hm, Ok. Einmal bei mir in der Bank, hat ein Musel 55.000€ in 50er eingezahlt. Zum zählen brauchte die Dame am Schalter ewig. Weißt du zufällig ob das normal is? Er sagte er hätte einen Autohandel. Die sollen ja auch gut zu Geld waschen geeignet sein.

They don't require ID, just walk in there with your cryptowallet and cash out?!?

That's heaven for criminals, are you serial?

I will "lose" 5% when selling to them.. Not much really.. Better than paying taxes any day really.
Or I could sell the gold locally at spot price, and "lose" even less

Has anyone here used Bitgild? It'd probably be part of my quick exit strategy if I could find any worthwhile testimonials, but it looks like the kind of site I'd be wary of transferring large amounts of cash to on a whim. Do they have a more legitimate sister company?

No ID... I can walk in and grab 10k in cold cash if I want to... Just need to bring some of my gold

source?

meinst du Gold kaufen mit bitcoins und dann lokal im goldhandel verkaufen bleibt unbemerkt oder kennen die banken/finanzamt das bereits

Some of the bigger sites out there accepts Bitcoin as well you know.. Bitgild.com is mostly for Europeans :)
wish I remembered the site names, but been a long time since I purchased gold

>Soll ich dem Finanzamt dann ne csv mit millionen von transaktionen schicken wenn ich meine BTC in fiat verkaufe? ähm... die werden sich freuen!
genau so sieht die aktuelle Rechtslage aus - JEDE Transaktion.

what about longs/shorts?!

sollen die doch bekommen. War doch deren Idee es zu versteuern, sollen sie die Verantwortung dafpr übernehmen. Was meint ihr, wie viel Prozent würdet ihr maximal versteuern. Ich nur maximal 9%. Und das ist eine fucking Menge an Geld in diese 9% wenn das gesamte Marktkapital von Cryptos so weiter ansteigt wie in die letzten Monate.

eher schlag ich meinen kopf solange gegen die wand bis ich meine ganzen passwörter vergessen als dass ich nur einen einzigen gottverfluchten cent an diese missgeburten abtrete :)

OIIIIII VEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYY

touché
vielleicht auswandern, neuen bürgerschaft beantragen, niedrigste steuern zahlen und fett leben lassen. Warum in so einen Gammelland leben die sich vollständig aufg, Erfolg wird bestraft, Fautheit wird belohnt, fixiert. Mindestlohnparadies für wagecucks

That sucks. In America we have pretty hefty taxes for both long term and short term trades. Easiest way to avoid it all is to be in long term; at this point, the IRS doesn't have the tools or expertise to properly trace crypto transactions, so as long as you're not doing all your tears in an exchange that report to the IRS you should be good.

Traditional audits don't go back more than 3 years either, so if you don't plan to pay taxes, 1) use a service like tumble bits before cashing out, 2) don't trade on exchanges based in America, and 3) cash out to a service like local bitcoin or something else that will allow you to avoid automatically reporting taxable events.

Ich frage mich, wer dahinter steckt.

Es muss der dumme Michel sein. Er ist selbst Schuld. Garantiert.

Sowas ist normal. Wir haben auch die Kunden (Restaurant, Kiosk, Bäckerei etc), die alle paar Tage mit dem Jutebeutel reinkommen in dem 20k sind.

Zum Goldankauf wollen ein paar auch deinen Perso, aber das wird nur für die gespeichert weil die dich nach GWG identifizieren müssen, das heißt nicht dass sie eine GWG Meldung abgeben. Erst wenn de Händler merken dass du häufig kommst müssen die eine Meldung abgeben.

Um wieviel Geld geht es denn bei euch? Wenn ihr ein normales Einkommen habt, dann würde ich wirklich erst ab 50k überlegen.
Das ist aber auch eine gefühlte Grenze - Betragsmäßig handelt das jeder anders. Unter 20k Einmalzahlung muss man sich aber wirklich keine Gedanken machen außer ihr habt eine verräterischen Verwendungszweck.

Ich wurde mal von der Volksbank vorgeladen und musste nachträglich meinen Perso zeigen, weil ich lächerliche 1000€ bar eingezahlt habe.
War in einem anderen Bundesland als meine Filiale.

Wenn ich auscashen würde, dann wäre es über bitcoin.de, also per "Freundes-" transkation direkt auf mein FIDOR konto. Was wäre da deiner Meinung nach der Maximalbetrag auf einmal?

Pay your taxes Jurgen all of those shit skins need new nikes and T.V's

>volksbank

wie wäre es wenn du dir ein Bankkonto bei den größeren Banken eröffnest. Deusche Bank, Commerzbank etc.

...

Wie siehts aus wenn ich in amazon geschenkkarten auscashe?

Okay hypothetically speaking: 1 if i would do all of my trading over a vpn to some shithole country would it still be taxed ?
And 2: if i did it over teamviewer to a computer located in said country it would be legal right? Same for mining there and cashing out in € giftcards?

It's not about the territory where you do your business. It matters where you are "gemeldet" and whcich citizenship you have. Not gonna escape german finanzamt. They will get out of their way as soon as they smell some money to be made.

>All kind of tax are invalid after 1 year and everything belongs to you.
Only if you didn't trade ANYTHING whatsoever within that year.
>Dein steuerlicher Freibetrag beträgt 801€ pro Jahr.
>I transferred a bit to my bank account and nothing happened. Were just a few hundred Euros tho.
>just a few hundred Euros tho
>a few hundred Euros
>hundred Euros
Mein Neger!

>How much money?
Ballin with around ~€800k. And NO WAY I'm handing over half of it to the Gestapo. I would be ok with 10-12% tax.
Will probably convert some of it to cash with localbitcoins Luxemburg (because in Germoney it's blocked).

say I have 1000$ worth of bitcoins in my offline wallet. If I send all of it to my bank account connected to coinbase, how much money will appear in my bank account?

And if somebody does it for me and sends me the codes it should be fine right?

Amazon Codes? Yeah, should be fine becuase they're not tracked. Technically you still receive lots of money and you would have to tax it but since nobody tracks Amazon codes whatsoever. That's why warez-uploader for OCHs have been cashig out in Amazon Codes and selling them on ebay for years.

Allrighty thanks for your time i hope i dont get assraped for trading 50€ worth of shitcoins around the past 2 months

kek I have the same problem here. Just poured a few K into ETH. Now it mooned and I have no clue how to cash it out without paying the fucking state almost half of it.

Well if you have a relative (which you trust ofc.) in some obscure country you know what to do :)
Perhaps try to dropshit stuff from amazon?

>>Every trade BTC -> Altcoin is considered realized taxable profit in my country
That is bullshit, crypto coins are basically chunks of bites until you cash them out

Once the money hits your bank account, only then you can start thinking about taxes

Oh, didn't know that Localbitcoins is a Finnish company. Seems like I just made a trade with the CEO, kek

>Once the money hits your bank account, only then you can start thinking about taxes
That's what I'm thinking too. So are you sure OP? Do you have some exact wording that you could quote? It makes literally no sense for your government to tax simple exchange, but oc you never know with Germany lately.

But let me sum it up first:
So you mean that if you hold a specific coin less than a year because you exchanged it to another coin on an online exchange, than your profit on the trade will be 45% taxed? ... in cash, even though you didn't cash out? That would mean that every year you need to cash out enough to satisfy your taxes.
Or am I misunderstanding something?

>So you mean that if you hold a specific coin less than a year because you exchanged it to another coin on an online exchange, than your profit on the trade will be 45% taxed? ... in cash, even though you didn't cash out? That would mean that every year you need to cash out enough to satisfy your taxes.
>Or am I misunderstanding something?
This is exactly the issue. Each exchange if you gained something will be taxed at your personal income tax rate. Of course, it wasn't so relevant before because there were only few people in Germany prior 2016 who had made serious six or seven figure gains with Altcoins but that has changed.
It only stays tax free if you hold eachtrade 1 year minimum.

Example:
Buy 1 BTC @ $1000
1 week later trade BTC rises to $1500
Decide to buy 100 LTC @ 0.01 BTC/LTC ->Already here a tax liability of $500 * personal income tax rate is created ;(

But the taxman will not see a dime from me. I will go full darknet now.

Yup. No point in funding the welfare state that floods your country with refugees. God speed, schnitzel

go back to pakistan you rapefugee

it's hilarious that all you retards are legitimately considering tax evasion.

the gov't will just buy automated tax tracking software from the lowest bidder, demand data from the exchanges, and whoops it looks like you owe a shit ton of money Veeky Forums.

just pay your fucking taxes.

fuck the police

>just fund our Syrian refugee program goy.

about 27$ once they factor 0.5% fees on every transaction you made.

>Sorry officer, my account was hacked a year ago, I have no idea who kept my coins and what they did with them.

op where the fuck do you trade crypto and make money on it ?

Maybe this helps you.
It is for the austrian law but they may be similiar.

bitcoin-austria.at/de/artikel/bitcoin-steuern-oesterreich/20170301_Bitcoin und Steuerrecht_Folien.pdf

I'm in the U.S. and starting to fill out a spreadsheet for taxes on this shit but it's way more hassle than necessary. If I bought GNT on May 1st at 6:40 or so, I pay taxes on any profit I made on the ETH I used from the time I bought it, but I don't really care about that 12 hour profit because I was looking at the ratio of GNT/ETH instead of how many dimes I was spending. Fucking stupid.

And then when I do cash out into fiat if there isn't some way to directly pay with crypto in the future, they're going to tax me again as short term if I traded in the last year. Like I'd be marginally more okay with a 15% capital gains tax from the profit on the point of buying a crypto with cash to the point of cashing out, but this shit is the equivalent of taxing fucking Neopoints.

Not to mention what brought up where if I make profit on day trading and don't convert some to fiat over the year, they want me to pay in cash that I probably don't have because most is invested or used for bills. And if I cash some out to pay their taxes, they'll tax my taxes before I even pay them. Didn't we separate from Britain to avoid this bullshit? Like if the government wants to subsidize welfare leeches so badly fine, but just give them a crypto portfolio instead of consistently stealing from ours.

What if the process of trading coins on an exchange is not even considered a real "trade"? What if the act of trade is when you deposit coins to the exchange and then withdraw other coins, regardless of what happens in between?

Drecks Sozialstaat. Finanzamt fickt einen hier richtig in den Arsch. Steuersenkungen wann?