Is this book fictional or a real historical account?

Is this book fictional or a real historical account?

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representingtheholocaust.wikispaces.com/file/view/Ozick_Who Owns Anne Frank?.pdf
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Historical account.

Why do so many experts disagree?

Historical, extenisve testing has shown it is from the time period and was written in her handwriting. Plus it was published by her father.

They don't.

it was tampered because her dad cut off the parts in which she describes her genitals

This

...

>they don't know

>so many experts disagree

They don't.

Which experts?

the experts at /pol/ of course

Did anyone else masturbate to the parts about her being lewd?

Historians do not doubt it was her that wrote the book, they doubt the content is historically accurate.

>they doubt the content is historically accurate
It's a diary of a little girl you abject retard, not one historian concerns himself with the historical review of a 14 year olds year in an attic, because there's nothing historical about it


Holy fuck, how are you that stupid and even on here? The retards typically don't make it past pol

You are saying that it is categorized as fiction?

What school did you go to where they taught you diary entries by Anne Frank were used for historical review

It's a diary...

Fuck off asshole, I just asked a question and I see
telling me that it is not fiction.

You realize that "100% historically accurate that can be used as historical review" and "fiction" are not the only two options, right?

pretty sure he's saying that the diary isn't useful for historical events other than what led the family to hide. i mean she wouldn't much of anything about current events if she never leaves the attic

*wouldn't know much

If what she wrote did not occur, it is fiction.

fic·tion
ˈfikSH(ə)n/
noun
literature in the form of prose, especially short stories and novels, that describes imaginary events and people.
synonyms: novels, stories, (creative) writing, (prose) literature; informallit
"the popularity of South American fiction"
invention or fabrication as opposed to fact.
plural noun: fictions
"he dismissed the allegation as absolute fiction"
synonyms: fabrication, invention, lies, fibs, untruth, falsehood, fantasy, nonsense
"the president dismissed the allegation as absolute fiction"
a belief or statement that is false, but that is often held to be true because it is expedient to do so.
"the notion of that country being a democracy is a polite fiction"

>they doubt the content is historically accurate.

Which historians say that the "content is not historically accurate"? What do you mean by they say it's not "historically accurate?" Specifically which parts are not "historically accurate?"

How are you so retarded


How did you end up here with the iq of an apricot

Can you read? Can you read this?

Why do you seem incapable of comprehending that there is a difference between a fictional book and a real personal collection of notebooks written by a teenager?

Her diary is not fiction. It is a real journal, or rather collection of journals, that was written by a real person experiencing real things during that time period.

What's it like to be so retarded that even on a cartoon chinese cricket forum you're made fun of?

Are you implying that Anne Frank wasn't real and didn't write that diary or Anne Frank absolutely knew everything going on for sure at the time are the only two possibilities.

You need to kill yourself immediately. Superman is a real comic book series produced by a real man, does that make it non-fiction?

Not an argument.

So if I were to write a book about history, but at some point I make a mistake like get a date wrong or something, it instantly makes the book fiction?

Strawman.

So you are just suggesting that Anne Frank is either a completely a reliable source or was totally lying. Good to know you're mentally impaired or just baiting.

5 different people have called you retarded in the span of 10 minutes, your superior homeschooled reading skills don't seem to impress anyone

>You need to kill yourself immediately. Superman is a real comic book series produced by a real man, does that make it non-fiction?

So... you're comparing a journal written by a real person about what she experienced to a fictional comic book series? Are you out of high school yet? Shit, that's insulting to high schoolers--we learned about fiction here in kindergarten.

Superman is a fictional story written by a real person because, until we program robots to write out stories for us, real people have to write them. It is fiction.

Anne Frank's journal is her personal recollection of what she experienced along with her thoughts. It is non-fiction.

Whether a book is fiction or non-fiction depends on intent. A personal recollection, like a diary, is non-fiction, because the writer is attempting to offer an accurate account of real events. They may, at some point, make a mistake, because everyone's memory is faulty, and by definition it will only represent their personal experience, not a representative account of the history, but that doesn't make it fiction.

It's literally the logical conclusion of what you are saying. Unless you are making some other argument, in which case, state it faggot

It is a historical account.

I suggest that you do some personal study on the nature of personal narratives, both in the moment (journal/diary-style) and afterwards (memoir-style) since it is important to understand how personal narratives work and how they are used in the context of historical study. Anne Frank's published diary is a combination of both immediate narrative and memoir-style narrative, since she began rewriting her journals with a more professional outlook in the hopes of publishing them after the war.

fallacy fallacy

Didn't say that.

Not an argument.

>b-b-but she believed it was real so it's non fiction

You are illiterate. I posted the definition of fiction earlier, do I really have to post one for non-fiction as well or can I trust you to google.

If we take your argument to it's conclusion, here is some more "non-fiction" for you.

Get some reading comprehension.

Irony.

How old are you?

>Whether a book is fiction or non-fiction depends on intent.
Ahahahahahahahahaha. Do not reply to my thread again.

Not an argument.

I hope she's a little girl.

I know it's not an argument but at this point I'm just legitimately curious. How old are you?

>I posted the definition of fiction earlier
Okay, lets look at that definition shall we.

>literature in the form of prose, especially short stories and novels, that describes imaginary events and people.
Anne Frank isn't describing imaginary events and people. she is describing real events and people

>invention or fabrication as opposed to fact
She wasn't knowingly inventing or fabricating anything.

>a belief or statement that is false, but that is often held to be true because it is expedient to do so
It isn't, on a whole, false, and she wasn't holding it to be true because it was expedient

25. How old are you?

I don't feel like making another thread for this so I'll just jump in this one

I've read the "Definitive Edition," but is the Revised Critical Edition worth a look?

Intent has nothing to do with the definition of fiction. Please get some reading comprehension, it's embarrassing.

>If we take your argument to it's conclusion, here is some more "non-fiction" for you
Time Cube is literally non-fiction. It's bad, crazy, inaccurate non-fiction, but still non-fiction.

Do you mind outlining what you're actually arguing, instead of tossing around fallacies? Why do you think Anne Frank's diary should be classed as fiction?

>Intent has nothing to do with the definition of fiction
According to whom? The definition(s) you posted clearly include an element of intent

20. Just curious how bad I should feel for you being so stupid

>calling someone else illiterate
>thinks real diaries are fiction

Embarrassing and substanceless reply, illogical to boot.

that's not irony you uncultured retard

It's just a bait thread.

Point it out to me.

Are you Jewish?

Writing fiction in a diary does not make it non-fiction, mongoloid.

Not an argument

I was raised Catholic so no.

Nonfiction or non-fiction is content (often, in the form of a story) whose creator, in good faith, assumes responsibility for the truth or accuracy of the events, people, and/or information presented.[1] In contrast, a story whose creator explicitly leaves open if and how the work refers to reality is usually classified as fiction.[1][2] Nonfiction, which may be presented either objectively or subjectively, is traditionally one of the two main divisions of narratives (and, specifically, prose writing),[3] the other traditional division being fiction, which contrasts with nonfiction by dealing in information, events, and characters expected to be partly or largely imaginary.

Nonfiction's specific factual assertions and descriptions may or may not be accurate, and can give either a true or a false account of the subject in question. However, authors of such accounts genuinely believe or claim them to be truthful at the time of their composition or, at least, pose them to a convinced audience as historically or empirically factual. Reporting the beliefs of others in a nonfiction format is not necessarily an endorsement of the ultimate veracity of those beliefs, it is simply saying it is true that people believe them (for such topics as mythology). Nonfiction can also be written about fiction, typically known as literary criticism, giving information and analysis on these other works. Nonfiction need not necessarily be written text, since pictures and film can also purport to present a factual account of a subject.

Irony.

There's nothing to argue against, I was just giving a description of your post.

God your parents must be the most disappointed people

>invention or fabrication
You can't invent or fabricate something without intent. See the definitions of these terms:
>Invention: something fabricated or made up
>fabrication: an invention; a lie
So they have to be a lie, and a lie is:
>lie: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood

My family are close. Nice projection, Noah.

>she believed it was real so it's non fiction
Technically, yeah, that's probably the best criteria for deciding if something is non-fiction.

Kek, BTFO

The Critical edition is useful if you want to learn more about the "history" of the diary.

It reproduces the three versions of the diary: the original notebooks written by Anne, the (partial, they were found before she could finish) edited versions of the notebooks that Anne rewrote with the intent to publish, and the first collected version by Otto Frank which was a combination of material from both the original notebooks and the Anne-edited version, along with censorship cuts he made when Anne talked too negatively about people, or was talking about sex/genitals, or her feelings for another girl.

It also goes into the publication history, the major studies in the diary, and other historical information that gives a broader sense of the diary's context as well as the context of when it was published.

I'm not sure what the Revised Critical edition adds to the original Critical.

Sometimes I wonder if this essay will ever get a lot of traction again, I don't necessarily agree with everything but it makes interesting points regarding the romantification of the diary and Anne herself: representingtheholocaust.wikispaces.com/file/view/Ozick_Who Owns Anne Frank?.pdf

>My family are close
Yes, your family is very close, given your grammar

His English teachers from elementary, middle and high school have already killed themselves in shame

>literature in the form of prose, especially short stories and novels, that describes imaginary events and people
>imaginary events and people
>imaginary

You and need to go back to studying for your finals.

That phrase is grammatically correct, Moishe. It's getting pathetic at this point, everyone is embarrassed on your behalf.

Samefag.

Since Anne Frank described nothing imaginary, you admit her diary wasn't fiction then?

samefag

Your premise is false so I cannot accept your conclusion.

Prove it

>hurr durrr imma retard ahurrr durrr gimme attention ahurrr

kys cuckie

>no pure aryan gf to gift to black bulls

Not an argument

>what is burden of proof

Another embarrassing post. Sigh. (You)

>what is burden of proof
Something that is on you

You are the one who is asserting that her diary is fiction. Why is it fiction?

She has offered zero evidence that it is anything but fantasy and a great many scholars take issue with the content. The burden of proof is absolutely on you, since you are making the claim that this account is non-fiction.

It may be a shitty bait thread but here are some recommended Anne Frank books, aside from the diary itself.

>The Last Seven Months of Anne Frank by WIlly Linderwer

Details what is known about the last months of Anne Frank, using testimony from 6 women who were in the camps with Anne, some of whom had even been friends with Anne prior to the war.

>Anne Frank: The Biography by Melissa Muller

(2014 edition) A comprehensive biography about Anne Frank.

>Anne Frank: Her life in words and pictures from the archives of The Anne Frank House

Lots of pictures, many of them never published before, along with text.

>Anne Frank Remembered: The Story of the Woman Who Helped to Hide the Frank Family by Miep Gies

Memoir written by Miep Gies, the woman who hid the Franks and other families, and who discovered and hid Anne's journals after they were arrested.

>After Auschwitz: A story of heartbreak and survival by the stepsister of Anne Frank by Eva Scholoss

Eva's mother married Otto Frank in 1953, so she was Anne's stepsister posthumously. A memoir detailing Eva and her mother's experience in the camps and their life afterwards, including Eva's role in continuing her stepfather's work regarding Anne's legacy.

You cannot wish away the Holocaust just because you want to sidestep the fallout

>great many scholars take issue with the content.
hurrr durrrr

Say more retarded shit user, please

>a great many scholars take issue with the content
Elaborate (what does "take issue with the content" mean) and name them.

>When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo
You started the argument by claiming it was fiction, you are challenging the status quo that a diary is non-fiction, so the burden of proof is on you.

Which scholars

>a great many scholars take issue with the content.

Who are these "Great many scholars?" Please name them, and discuss their viewpoints. What content, exactly, do they take issue with and why?

You are the one who is asserting a viewpoint which goes against the basic understanding of fiction and non-fiction. You are claiming that a primary source written by someone recounting events and personal thoughts if fictional. You, therefore, need to explain why--and provide the proof.

I asked, "Is this fiction". You replied that it was not, so you made the claim. Read the thread.

>wahhh Google is too hard for me

Did I accidentally end up on kc or something? Not even bernds are this assburger.

How about you just fucking say who they are if its so obvious dumbass.

So you can't name a single scholar? Pretty pathetic desu

Autism

stop replying to the obvious troll you retards

No

I am genuinely in love with Anne Frank.

I was waiting for this.
SEMEN STAINS THE MOUNTAIN TOPS

...

>ITT: Reddit argues semantics to the point where belief = non fiction

Why the hell don't the mods ban obvious /pol/faggotry?