So I was rewatching Game of Throne's battle of the bastards yesterday when a question I wanted to ask but forgot at the time when it was first shown came back to me: did the Bolton's pike formation existed in some capacity anywhere in the ye olde days?
Seems pretty sensible to me, a pike formation protected up front by shield bearers wielding large pavise shields.
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Phalanx my dude
The closest I can think of is the Italian Pavesare...who held his own spear alongside the bigass shield he was carrying.
Otherwise: NO. It isn't sensible. You know what those shields represent? Hollow spaces where cunts can run up and fuck the formation up. IRL Medieval pike formations filled the gap between pikes with -yes- ANOTHER pike, held by guys behind the guys up front. That way, no smart alecks can run between spears and shake dudes up close.
No phalanx that I can think of had a line of guys who just held big shields and no spear.
contd. but to humour you, some shield-bearer formations did exist in history. I can think of two. The First one is the Achaemenid battle line, where archers gather behind shieldbearers wielding large as fuck wicker shields. It was basically a formation to counter nomads and typical Middle Eastern light infantry of the period.
Another would be one of Ming Chinese general, Qi Jiguang's formations in his book on infantry tactics.
However, the shield bearers standing in front of spearmen are cunts whose job is not to cover the spearmen entirely like in the Bolton formation, but to kill the dudes that got past the pikes. Also AFAIK this was a small unit formation. Quite effective however.
yes, but with shields that allow you to see over the top of them and allow the guy behind you to assist
also this a shield is not an impenetrable barrier, it can easily be kicked back into your face
I think you're overestimating how much bravery and discipline these sorts of premodern soldiers had.
I actually think GoT treated it pretty well, after some hesitation the most resourceful and courageous soldiers started hacking at spear shafts and trying to attack through the gaps (mostly because they realized they would get wiped out at this rate) but overall they were being pushed back and trying to avoid getting stabbed first because this sort of formation is horrifying if you weren't properly drilled to face it.
Its a terrible idea:
1. the pike wielder has an obstructed view of the target
2. He has an obstructed view of the rest of the front line and the incoming enemy that isnt directly in front
3. Hes fucked if shield guy gets overtaken or killed or trips
4. worse control of the weapon because he is presumebly now holding the pike further back or using a longer one
5. limited striking area in that you cant really attack diagonally to help out your buddies and they cant help you
6. No one is going to volunteer to be shield guy all the time
There is definitely a good reason people never did this. That whole fight, although entertaining, was filled with war memes and shit no one would ever do. I love the show, but knowing some shit about combat I was cringing hard during that scene.
Second dude(s) from the front have a strong "nigga u srs" face game
GoT didn't even want to do it like that at first.
The battle was supposed to be based on Agincourt, and at least the mud, crush deaths, suffocation, and stacked bodies to the height of a spear are all out of the historic record, but they decided on the Cannae style encirclement later on, and they were going to use horses, but then for budgeting reasons had to use a shield-wall.
For the Agincourt time period you're going to have to open up the longbow vs plate can of worms, but generally speaking shields weren't all that useful at the time as a coat-of-plates was probably enough protection, and the only contemporary sources from Agincourt that mention shields are on the French side.
You have to admit those solid walls of shields, steadily closing in, were very visually impressive. Even moreso than just a bristling porcupine's nest of pikes.
I think you're missing the part where some pike units suffered 905+ casualties in the front ranks and kept fighting-in real life.
EVERYTHING about the fighting in GoT is retarded. Blind men don't fight well.
It's not about blind people fighting well, it's about learning to fight blind so you can fuck up people who can't see in the dark.
Of course it's not realistic, that's the sort of unbelievable tales people tell about muh ninjas and hashashins, but then again we're talking about people who have walls full of magic masks made from the flayed faces of their victims.
This whole battle is retarded.
>Let's do as many cliches, memes and stupid ideas as possible, as a joke
And here you go
>shooting at your own men (thanks Braveheart!)
>mountain of bodies
>what are armours
>forget about armours, what are helmets
>WHAT ARE SHIELDS I DON'T KNOW
>"Wow, Bolton was such great strategist
>lost entire army, and he outnumbered his enemies badly
>stupid version of pike formation
>THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED
And i probably still forgot about few things.
Why doesnt the giant just throw handfuls of dead bodies into the formation?
replace the shields with more pikes from the line behind
seriously though, Jon had like 63 knights from bear island, that was it. ramsay had a way fucking bigger cav force and if he just let them fight it out, his force would have won easily. Instead, he killed everyone, including his own men. Any total war players out there know that you never shoot into a blob of your own men, at most you fire volleys at the back of the enemy so they don't hit your own, or you go around the sides and shoot the flanks.
Furthermore nobody had armor or shields like you said, so the casualties from arrow fire were way more ridiculous than they should have been. Hollywood always makes ancient and medieval missile weapons way more deadly than they should be.
seems like a costly formation that would take a lot of discipline but would be easy to counter once you figure it out. Just stand in a damn line - those pikes don't have any room to maneuver at all.
>>should we arm the giant?
>eh no, why bother
one tree trunk and the Bolton pike formation would have been finished
>Grab the ends of the pikes
>Push them away/cut them off with axes/shove them into the ground
problem solved?
Honestly this bothered me alot more than any of the fighting scene which imo were good enough. I think the chaotic mess of a near slaughter was properly reflected.
But come on, their one ace in the hole and they dont bother to armour the Giant or make him a big ass spear? What the fuck could the boltons do if the giant is just smashing people to death with a giant tree trump.
>kicked back in your face
you'ed be stabbed in your dick famalam
That was actually fairly decent, aside from the cavalry/infantry being intermixed to such an extent.