Be me: shaka zulu!

you're thinking too small, as I'd expect from here, who the fuck cares about the 19th century?
it's true that the west got it's fair share of profit from it's colonies

but the west left those colonies in a state that those colonies wouldn't have gained in hundreds of years, especially the african colonies

what I wouldn't give to send every SJW to an alternative universe where africans were never colonised, they'd beg to come back

containment board

back to /pol/ etc

anyway give me proof, why would the jews trade in the whites for the asians?
afaik the asians even hate the jews because hitler fought against the western opressor and he hated jews so they too must hate jews
an asian controlled world is not a good world for jews

Last paragraph an interesting point. Interesting thing about trump is that you see that kind of populist rhetoric in the third world a lot, but not in the west until recently. A republic is only as strong as the intellect of its citizens.

fire arms alone do not make a civilisation

even if the chinese had canons comparable to the british it wouldn't work

can you imagine chines ships shelling london in the 19th century?

the very idea is proposterous and yet the opposite did happen

there where many reasons that led to this but I really can't pinpoint a tipping point

Silly goyim, you still don't understand. Global jewry never "traded in" our white pets for Asians, we're simply expanding our spheres of influence

Lul, wot? What are Jesuits?

>They learned through observation

Yeah because the only way to share knowledge is through violent conquest. Trade doesn't exist. Diplomacy doesn't exist. Missionaries don't exist. Migration doesn't exist. Education doesn't exist.

Goddamn stop falling for post hoc justifications, it's embarrassing that people like you buy into blatant propaganda crafted hundreds of years ago. The primary goal of colonization was for resources and resources alone. Any "civilization" colonizers brought was secondary, and almost always for the benefit of the colonizers themselves and not their subjects.

the US supports israel and therefore every ant-US power is anti-israel

you don't get it; do you ishmeal?

you're our pet, once we're gone you'll starve

you'll eat us, sure, we don't care, we knew about this possibility but afterwards, you'll starve or get eaten, you won't survive in a world without white civilisation

face it, jacob, without this "gojim" to take care of you, you'll starve and nobody will remember you outside of your dying religion

how does that make you feel?

µ

yeah because fucking trade didn't exist in the thousands BC

face it man, the world only got on the same level when the white man got of his ass and started educating people with fire and sword

sure, he got his part but every bloody colony got more back then what they took from them

One only has the rights that he can protect

but we did fucking trade in our pets for asians, notice how post imperialism all culture is japanese.

me personally i am a jew and like its way too fucking late to try n stop them and like why 6tf wouldyou the white man may have power but we just arnt cool u past lifer

The Jew was thriving while whites were running around naked in the mud. We'll be counting our shekels after you return to the mud. The largest organized effort of genocide in human history was carried out to eradicate us, and failed miserably. Face it whitey. Your superiority is a myth, a tool we use to control you, implanted with just enough inferiority to make you more focused on arguing on Mongolian fisting forums than actually doing something

hah!

you haven't done anything of note since some bloody spaghetti munchers threw you out of your beloved homeland

and that wasn't even the first time, I don't even know any european people that got butfucked so bad that they all got thrown out of their own fucking homeland!

I'm from a people that rebelled so many times that even we don't count it anymore and we're still here and there aren't even that many of us!

we took you in because we felt sorry for you, we even gave you special rights and shit, of course sometimes you guys were scapegoats and such when you didn't deserve it, sorry for that
but overall we took good care of you, like a man takes care of his cat

and after that nasty hitler bussiness we even were so kind to give you your homeland back, the one you lost by being such incompetent sissy girls

you see abraham, without us you'd still be thrown out of your homeland

and the moment we turn our eyes you'll be exiled again by a couple of couscous munchers

how does that make you feel?

>fucking trade didn't exist in the thousands BC
wew, trade goes back literally to the stone age. the obsidian trade occurred over pretty vast distances. we've found obsidian at Jericho when the nearest possible source is in Turkey

>spaghetti munchers
>couscous munchers
Idk if you can tell, but I'm trolling you. Imma stop because I feel sorry for you if you're not to, and instead I'm gonna try to talk normally.

There isn't actually a Jewish conspiracy. If you believe that you're retarded. However, if you believe that by virtue of being a certain color, or being born in a particular place, you're inherently superior...you're even more retarded. Racism by far the dumbest ideology.

Also, whites dominated the world for the last 400 years or so because they got a head start on industrialization. Rest of the world is catching up, and the margin is getting p small. This is elementary correlation vs causation lad. Whites aren't better because of imperialism; white think they're better cuz of imperialism. I don't believe you actually read history, because this is pretty plain to see if you do desu

I was saying that sarcasticly

of course trade existed that far back
and since it existed that far back we know that trade isn't an efficient way of spreading tech nology

it's good for spreading wealth but if you really want to get things going you have to take care of it yourself

>has never heard of stirrups

and I was counter-trolling you

I know the jews had their part in making europe into the power that it was (it turns out that having a group that knows how to read is a great boon for your city, who knew right?)

anyway, yes I agree with you, whites aren't inherently smarter or stronger then everone else, we threw double 6 on the great game

but I have to ask this: would the chinese ever come up with something like the white man's burden?

I'm an atheist and I'm willing to admit that christianity's insistence of taking care of your fellow man, no matter who they are cotributed to the general advance of the whole of mankind

the chinese would have just sucked the country dry of resources and moved on to the next (like they're doing now)

They were more than happy to sell guns and advisors to the Japs. The problem with Qing China was hubris; they thought they didn't need anything from the west.

You are fucking retarded and should go back to /r/eddit where you belong.

styrups are great if you want to shoot a bow or a gun from horseback

and not much else

it's a bit like smokeless gunpowder or the trebuchet was, it's a good thing to have but it's not gamechanging

Solid troll m8, thanks for having a real discussion too.

But look at Korea, Japan, and Southeast Asia. China brought their language and culture to them in the middle ages, and it was altered and used by them for their own devices. Idk what to tell you if you think culture spreading through imperialism is limited only to white people. I can think of more examples if you want

"The stirrup, which gives greater stability to a rider, has been described as one of the most significant inventions in the history of warfare, prior to gunpowder. As a tool allowing expanded use of horses in warfare, the stirrup is often called the third revolutionary step in equipment, after the chariot and the saddle."

Sounds pretty important to me. Shooting a bow on horseback allowed the mongols to create their empire, which had pretty game changing consequences for quite a few major empires

The Japanese were never truly subjects. And while they traded with the Indians in particular, to my knowledge they never freely gave them knowledge of how to MANUFACTURE firearms

I am sure this post made sense in your head, also its, not it's

yes, china did that

which is great for my theory that every country does that

the only fault china had was that it didn't go far enough, it peaked too early

every nation china knew or bothered knowing paid tribute to it

the main problem of china was that it was too powerfull, it had no real rivals and thus nobody to compete against, it grew stagnant and then came the british who had to hone their skills constantly against the french and the spanish and the dutch

and then they encountered the chinese and they were simply no match

if the chinese an british has squared against each a century earlier then the cinese would have probably won but thet'd have a giant wake-up call, they weren't simply the world champions anymore by just being, they'd have to get back training!

sure, the mongols were great

great at ruling whole heaps of nothing

the chinese took back their country, first by subverting the ruling class, later by usurping it

the persians took it all back with zealots from the mountains who didn't even care the mongols had converted as it was the wrong sect to them

and the only thing the mongols had left was the icy steppes and the tundra and even that was all taken from them by a former vassal

genghis khan ruled a great empire, but only because those parts were ether easy to invade or nobody else wanted them

Europeans did make advances in war and industry out of neccesity due to constant fighting with their neighbors, helping them colonize certain areas of the rest of the world, yes. I fail to understand how that leads to the conclusion that whites shouldered some particular burden for the world, and that whites have a right to conquer other nations, and that furthermore the world owes white people some great debt. If anything, all of what you argue proves is that whites fucked the world up by forcing it to match their skill at war, and upping the ante on slaughter and misery

and that's the great difference between the japanese and the chinese

when the gunships arived and the demands came the japanese bowed

they knew the europeans were stronger, they knew that the starting demands were lighter then the eventual peace treaty

they also learned, they invited the french and later the prussians to teach their armies
they invited the british to teach their navy

they made their government like thee europeans

and that is why japan outside of iran(who's oilfields were too valuable to leave to simply one power), thailand (who was sitting between 2 rival powers and had to give up territory severall times) and china (who was far too big to be colonised by one power and was instead divided into spheres) was the only nation to not be colonised
it was also the only non-western nation to colonise other countries and became a great power in the early 20th century

You're right that the mongol control of various empires was eventually toppled. However, you're ignoring that the creation of a cross-continental empire made the world more connected than it ever had been before, allowing a huge exchange of ideas and goods. Also, lot of evidence to suggest that this trade network allowed the black plague to come to Europe. That seems pretty important too

because with the whites bringing their war progress they also brought other things

why is it that dicator nations have mock elections?
why is it they cover up the abuse of their subjects?
why is it that on their propagandha they paint the west as being worse on human rights then they are?

why are there journalists in africa?
why are there doctors who swear to help or at least do no harm in south-america?
hell, why are there priests telling the casteless in india that they're of even worth as everybody else?

the white man did that, we made the world ours

and that world is a whole lot less evil then the world preceding it

and don't let one amoral communist tell you otherwise

>yeah all that opium they BOUGHT
FIFY

yes and the plague caused a more equal world by giving the surviving peasants more power

but when the khan threw those bodies over the walls of kaffa he didn't mean to do that, he was just out for revenge on the city that defied him untill his army was ravaged by disease

name one other thing that we have from the mongols outside of pasta and polo

the empire of the mongols was ultimatly inconsequential
everything it did for the world would have been done sooner rather then later

For the first paragraph, I fail to see how any of those things indicted progress in a beneficial direction. For the next two points immediately after that, I fail to see how those things have anything to do with inherent white values as opposed to just the west being wealthier and in a position to offer humanitarian aid

Your last point on india as well as "amoral communists" is interesting. On the subject of the legacy of western imperialism, zizek says that it gave the world the knowledge that the old regime can change. The oppressed of nations allowed the world saw that their oppression did not have to be permanent because they saw their old oppressors now being oppressed as well. This lead to socialist thought becoming popular areas of the world for from the industrialization Marx wrote about, like in Latin america and China.

What I'm saying is I think the lasting legacy of western imperialism is revolutionary socialist thought, because imperialism both proves that change can happen and justifies it

Things may have happened differently, but it did happen that increased trade and the cultural exchange and disease it brought came from the mongol empire, made possible through the use of stirrups. Counterfactual speculation is fun to circle jerk about, but ultimately has no real value in historical discussion

you know, that's the greatest joke of them all

anti-western people prove they're anti-western by adopting an ideology that came from the west

there are only 2 choices left in this world and if you're not dancing to one flute then you begin dancing to the other

also I see that you're a authoritarian be the way you dismissed my earlier points, know that even the notion that an absolute monarch or dictator can't do everything he wants and that he has to serve the interests of the people comes from europe, even the mandate of heaven doesn't go that far as it deals per generations

sure, it is what happened, that's important

what I'm interested in however is what could have happened

could all of the events happen without the mongols uinventing the styrup?

I say :sure, there were many trading routes between china and europe (the first outbreak of the plague already happend during justinian's time
the yuan dynasty wasn't any diffent from the ming in projects

I'll say: the real big thing was the destruction of bagdhad

bagdhad broke the back of the caliphate in a way that islam will never really recover from

the ottomans tried but never really succeeded in gaining that lost glory and spirit back

maybe they shouldn't have build their civilisation around a place that has a history of being easily conquered but never held

No one has ever fought a socialist revolutions against a foreign empire tho. In Cuba it was against batista, in China it was against the nationalists, etc, etc. People didn't become communists to "prove theyre antiwestern," but because they think it's right. They don't give a fuck where it's from.

Republican democracy also originates from the west, true. Definitely a good thing to spread. However, you're a fool if you think that governments of the world don't try to please their citizens so they don't rebel, nominally democratic or otherwise. Also, I don't think western style democracy does that good a job of accurately representing people, as opposed to the interests of big money.

Anyway, going to sleep now so don't expect a reply. Nice talking to you.

fieew thanks for that, I can get to sleep now too

anyway, it's a side-effect of the western controlled world
nobody important in the west spread communism by word, instead it were locals inspired by western idelogy and western individuals who spread it

you have to be a fool to not see who communists really rebelled against

cuba may have rebelled against batista but we all know in who's pocket batista was
cuba lies next to a giant, you can either go with it's waves or actively fight against it
why do you think the baltic nations have such restrictions on russians?

people became communists because communists were the anti-colonists

in another world where there exists a cold war between fascist germany and democratic USA then the north vietnamese would have developed the fascist ideology because it would be seen as anti-colonialist and as a way to get funds and weapons (not saying that it would naturally be so, it's just that that faction of the rebels has more cahnce to succeed)

anyway, the thing I want to say is that western rule has made the people expect more of their rulers

instead of simply being glad that they aren't killed they demand to not be killed without reason

anyway, I want to hit the core of this discussion and I hope that we can both agree on this (and everyone who follows this discussion) let me give a tldr

>wether you agree with it's tenants or not: the western civilisation has managed to manoever itself so that every civilisation on earth hereafter (unless it actively rejects it and even then ) contains elements of it

I hereby also wish to formally apologise for any mistakes against the english language that certainly made and to wish you all good night as it is already a fair bit in the morning

>up come the boers and british with riffles, cannons and ships of the line

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_blood_river

>I'm from a people that rebelled so many times that even we don't count it anymore and we're still here and there aren't even that many of us!
Are you Polish or Irish?

real life isn't a grand strategy game

don't expect technology to advance equally all across the world

flemish

>Implying Italians would've lost without poison gas in Ethiopia

>ayo best empire we wuz kangs

When you're fighting savage tribes with rocks for weapons. It's pretty easy to create an empire.

>Describe the fall and dissolution of every empire
>Asian ones were worst because they they weren't the same race as me.

China's main problem was the purging of knowledge and scholars after it's unification which sent them back thousands years then Mao's retardation in repeating the same thing.

what I'm saying is that the mongolian empire bassicly consisted of either easily invaded land or land that nobody else wanted

it's easy to make an empire out of that

> the west brought technology to the east
If anything it was a cultural exchange. Without the chinks we wouldn't have the printing press, gunpowder and probably many other things.

>western
>roots in sandniggar land

>mongolian empire bassicly consisted of either easily invaded land or land that nobody else wanted

Conquered some of the most powerful empires of the time:Jin Dynasty, Rus, Caliphates, Byzantine. Call it easy
Lands no one wanted like Russia, China, India, SE Asia, etc... except until the British, French, and Spanish wanted them

Quit being reasonable

>Without the chinks we wouldn't have the printing press
what did he mean by this?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printing_press

Childhood is thinking that Printing came out of the Printing press.

Adulthood is realizing it all began with woodblock printing in China. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodblock_printing#Origins_in_Asia

>what is trade