Were the Scythians white?

>Varg Vikernes claimed in his latest video that West and most East Slavs descend mainly from Scythians and Sarmatians
WE

modern iranians are a mix of natives (elamites, branch dravids, veddoids, semites) and aryan conquerors from andronovo

who gives a rat's ass what that retarded hypocritical WE WUZER thinks

neat chart

>Were the Scythians white?
They were barbarians according to Romans and
They were Iranic-speaking
Some of them were known for their light hair, like the Roxolani.
Some Sarmatian burials include up to 40% bodies with Asiatic features.
They were nomads, likely to create and disband tribal confederations regardless of ethnic background, just taking on people who wanted to, or were forced to, belong the tribe.
The Udmurts are sometimes theorized to be of Sarmatian descent, they are also the people with the largest concentration of red-haired people. The same was said about the Budini by Herodotus. The Budini might or might not have been Iranic.
The Alans/Ossetians are decidedly of Sarmatian descent. They look the same as other Caucasian peoples.

So yeah, the answer is: depends on whom you ask and what your definition of white is.

>West and most East Slavs descend mainly from Scythians and Sarmatians and it got me interested.
They do descend from them, but not mainly. The Slavs are by large the same populations that inhabited their respective areas since the stone age. It's unreasonable to think that a few hundred thousand Iranic nomads might have constituted a large enough force to change the genetic makeup of the settled populations of eastern Europe.

The Scythians and Sarmatians were assimilated by the settled populations of eastern Europe, same as what happened in Brittany and Morocco where they settled as well.

That's not true... Stop trying to make memes come to life.

What this guy said. It really depends on why you mean by "white"

1v1 me m8!!!1

It is

Like many of the people living there today, as well as the Persians and other Iranic groups which the pre-Slavic populations were related to, the peoples of the western Eurasian steppe mostly exhibited Europoid features. In fact this continued well into the early modern period, with the more westerly people of the Cuman-Kipchak confederacy being described by contemporary sources as phenotypically closer to Germanics than Mediterranean people, albeit with a degree of Asiatic admixture, which increased as one traveled eastward.

So yes, they were "white," but Varg is misinformed. The proto-Scythian culture of the Pontic steppe was in fact quite distinct from the presumable proto-Balto-Slavic cultures to the north and east, though interestingly the Chernoles culture appears to have had considerable contact with the Scythians. Of course, both groups are presumable Indo-European, but Slavs, barring perhaps some of the modern Slavic-speaking inhabitants of the Pontic Steppe, do not appear to be primarily descended from Scythians or any other Iranic people, but rather from the peoples to the north (in a presumably relatively small region, considering that most Slavic languages were mutually intelligible throughout Europe even into the middle ages) where the traditional Slavic homeland has historically been placed. In fact, the Scythians themselves still exist in some manner in Russia today, in the Ossetians, who speak a modern form of the medieval eastern Iranian Alan language, itself a descendant of the steppe tongues of the Scythians and Sarmatians.

Sorry for taking your question this seriously. Now please >>>/wikipedia/ and keep Veeky Forums clean of your /pol/posting, trucebreaking Thracian scum.

> " :( waaah i dont like talking about historic human biodiversity on a FUCKING HISTORY BOARD"
go back to your shitty 7th grade social science teacher who omits what people actually looked like in ancient times.

>branch dravidians

4. Seven Sons of Japheth (see map below):
1. Javan (Greece, Romans, Romance -- French, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese)
2. Magog (Scythians, Slavs, Russians, Bulgarians, Bohemians, Poles, Slovaks, Croatians)
3. Madai (Indians & Iranic: Medes, Persians, Afghans, Kurds)
4. Tubal (South of Black Sea)
5. Tiras (Thracians, Teutons, Germans, Scandinavian, Anglo-Saxon, Jutes)
6. Meshech (Russia)
7. Gomer (Celtic)

Yes.

Needs more fire.

Nobody actually cares that much what people looked like in ancient times except from a historiological standpoint to understand the biases of primary and secondary sources. It's cool to know, yeah, and can help inform our understanding of ancient peoples, but basing any real conclusions on it is disingenuous, particularly in our modern hyper-racialized western context in which we are disproportionately and needlessly aware of even the most minute and statistically insignificant racial divisions. You seem a lot more butt-bothered about informed people understanding the asininity of your shitty /pol/ threads than they are about you making them on their board.

BYLY

I want Thracian haters to leave!
REEEEEEE

...

TLDR
> people dont need to know about what ancient people looked like because I said so.
Its a pretty crucial part for people to relate to historical characters. Face it, there might be more and more nihilistic faggots who dont believe in anything each year but there will always be people who look to their ancestors as a source of inspiration and pride to motivate and inform their actions; and therefor relate to peoples and tribes that share their own characteristics.

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Falx off.

varg vikerness also claimed that egyptians are white. I'd take everything he says with a pillar of salt if I where you

Go deepthroat a rhomphaia you curr

C:

...

>and therefor relate to peoples and tribes that share their own characteristics.
That would be quite pathetic, since Most people are satisfied with their known ancestors or national legacies and do not need weewizing about iron age tribes.

>Slavs wewuzing as Iranians

>Varg Vikernes is a Slav

I am interested solely so I know how to depict them since I do historical illustrations.

>Slavs and Poles are a separate cathegory
>Slavs and Russians are a separate cathegory
>Russians are somehow both Meshesh and Magog

Even with autistic biblical LARPing you manage go full retard.

Stll a shit ton of Slavs that unironically think they are descendants of Sarmatians

They probably are.

They aren't even Islamic.

Varg also thinks that cooked meat is a Jewish Conspiracy and that ancient Slavs were some kind of mystical paleo-vegans.

>Stll a shit ton of Slavs
Maybe a few dozens of retarded Pollacks. So the correct phrasing would be "Ton of shit Slavs."

>white

YES

Amaaaazing.
Sarmatism is one of the weirdest out there. It's like Bulgars calling themselves Thracians.

The belief used to be more widespread than it is now. For example Matthias Bel, who was a Slovak, believed Slovaks descended from Iazyges who were a Sarmatian tribe.

Every time I see this I think of how pissed/humiliated I'd be if I got lasso'ed to death.
>oh fuck me the ancestors are never gonna let me live this down

That's not very different from an Englishman claiming to be an Anglo-Saxon.
The Sarmatians and Scythians became the ruling class of some Slavic tribes and assimilated with them during late antiquity. There were probably a bit fewer of them than Angles and Saxons, and their influence was a bit less felt (although there's still a shitton of Iranic words in Slavic languages, mostly related to religion and warfare, some Slavic deities correspond to Iranic ones 1:1, and it has been argued that the names of Serbs and Croats are Iranic in origin, suggesting slavicized tribes.)

>listening to Vargs ideas on race

Literally cannot tell them apart.

Russia is a big country.

>can't tell them apart
>this somehow means you can divide them into retarded arbitrary cathegories

Quite the opposite

I love the guy, but this desu

Poles
Slavs

Very much related.

Poles are a subset of Slavs. All Poles are Slavs. They're not separate groups.

Yup. Both come from the same dick. Japeth's.

So either just type "Slavs" or break them down to separate Slav groups. It makes no sense to mention both the meta group and the sub group.

>what is Beowulf
>what are the Eddas
>what is Calgacus
people obviously look toward the past as an era filled with heros, take your silly poz filled neg back to your humanities class

nah he's probably just going to be taken prisoner and kept as a sex slave and footstool for the sarmatian qt. lucky guy i'd say.

Yup. Family of man. We call came out of Noah's dick.

>there's still a shitton of Iranic words in Slavic languages, mostly related to religion and warfare, some Slavic deities correspond to Iranic ones 1:1
Proofs?

I think they were really close to Proto-Indo-Europeans. Slavs descend from PIEs like every other Indo-European people.

white is an imposibly modern conception, going back probobly only a few hundred years at most....its not a useful concept goig back thousands of years ago

concepts of race/tribalism exsisted but dynamics were different from place to place, time to time

trying to pin modern concepts of race of groups like the Egyptians of people living on the central Asian steppe is useless and disingenuous

It's very plausible. Even finno-ugric languages have several loanwords from indo-iranian

If this were the case people wouldn't be asking whether X people were white. They'd be asking what X people looked like. You're giving these fags too much benefit of the doubt.

This is a valid concern. I wasn't thinking of it at the time and you're right, but it does further reinforce my notion that it is important from a historiological standpoint more than anything else. "What people looked like" is not the same as "whether they are white" though.

I don't think Slavic has a "shitton" of words from Iranian languages, and most of the few it does are from Persian through Ottoman Turkish.

Very few are old enough to plausibly come from Scythian or Sarmatian.

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Proto-Slavic_terms_derived_from_Iranian_languages

As for deities, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simargl

As for words, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic_borrowings
The list in T. Sulimirski's "Sarmatians" included over 30 words, including axe, dog, cottage, heaven, deity, etc. Dunno how that sits with the current studies though.

That was covered by "national legacies", since those are stories not haplogroups or some other wewuzian shite.

>Asiatic features.
please refrain from such ignorance

the "Asiatic" features occurred w/ IE escapes into the frontiers of their ever expanding realm

it is known that IE adopted lone "wolfs" in the frontiers of the steppe

The Elunin culture was formed by interaction of Caucasoid (Andronovo) migrants, who brought with them tradition of bronze metallurgy and advanced animal husbandry. Interaction between migrant Caucasoid ethnic groups and indigenous Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixed populations in the frontier, periphery foothills and plains area of the Altai's Upper Ob at the end of the 3rd millennium BCE

The frontier Tashkov culture people were in regular cultural contact with the Andronovo population of the Southern Urals, and they also learned metalworking from Andronovo
so dont mix up the original IE with the adopted frontiersmen who later replaced IE

Man that Sarmatian lady is so fucking moe. My heart skips a beat every time I see this image. I wouldn't mind being raptio'd by her one bit.

>West and most East Slavs descend mainly from Scythians and Sarmatians
WE

WUZ

same
his videos and music are GOAT and his work on ancient European beliefs is very interesting and IMO credible but Varg's ideas about race and politics are not something you should care too much about

combo breaker

>and IMO credible
lol no

But what are Slavs?

>we just don't know

and dead cops

His theories seem somewhat plausible concerning certain things and sometimes his (I don't know what he came up with independently and not since he never uses citations) conclusions coincide with academically asserted notions.

White may be but haplogroup and phenotype aren't modern.
I agree with the spirit of what you are trying to say but I think the difficulty in labelling now is people become horrified to be connected in any way to anything "white".

They may feel that it cheapens their personal experience that stems from their perception or their race or culture but again, is just perception.
Semites for example genetically stem from "white" genetic pools though they like to play at that West Asian race/culture to differentiate themselves from what they consider "white" while, at their base, there's a heritage they could pull and claim from if it weren't beset with negative connotations originating from their present culture.

The Yanma were a white haplogroup. Their beakerneck forbearers were that haplogroup. Any tribe that came after has that haplogroup base. Doesn't matter their perception or what's "cool".

It is what it is.

Why do you watch that lunatic. He was thanking turkey for killing Christians

He has SOME good points but he practices some truly magnificient mentalgumnastics to justify his hate for christians.

I don't think you should use white supremacist norwegian black metsl solo artist/murderer in self-defense/church burner Varg Vikernes for historical questions. The guy isn't really the brightest and just makes shit up to comply with his nordicist ideas. Reslly unscientific 19th century pseudo science tier shit man.

The Sarmatians & Scythians were an Iranic Peoples. Iranic peoples of antiquity are from what would today be central asia and russian steppe area around the Caspian sea, Iran and Caucasia proper. They moved to southern Russia and what is today Ukraine. The melanin content of their skin probably would not be as lacking as say a Scandinavian person or Baltic person. Blue eyes wouldn't really exist among them, since the gene diffuses from The Baltic and North Sea regions proper. Nor would they likely have blonde hair.

Slavs are NOT Iranic.

You got it the wrong way around, they originated in Ukraine and Southern Russia and moved to Iran

also see

I'm going to have to request a source on that if you want me to take the data seriously. Particularly the assertion that hair color, especially something as genetically recessive as red hair, is somehow existing homogeeously in a group of peoples

Christine Keyser et al., Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people