Japan-Russia territorial issue "Northern Territories"

The Northern Territories are land where the Soviet Union unilaterally abandoned the Japanese Soviet Union Agreement and invaded after the end of World War II. Actually, Japan does not demand the return of all the lost territory. The land that Japan is requesting is only a part of the land taken away.

Current Japan is in the wrong negotiation. Japan should have demanded all of the territory deprived of Russia. And Japan should have strongly insisted to receive apologies and compensation from Russia. Of course, Russia will not accept Japan's request. But that's fine. Japan's argument is because it is a sophistry for bringing out Russian compromise. The aim of Japan is to recapture the Northern Territories only.

Spoils of war and all that. You don't see Germany asking for Kaliningrad

>for bringing out Russian compromise
>give me this land
>no
>give me a little less land
>no
>...
What makes you think that Russia is desperate for some sort of agreement?

Putin literally give up some land to China for free like two years ago.

Yeah, a useless river island, to a country that Russia relies on not to be it's enemy.

It isn't useless. It is larger than Belgium.

Belgium
30,528 km2

This is
327 to 350 km2

Good thing i looked it up, you had me there for a sec.

Japan looks very stupid with their demands.
They abandoned Norther territories twice: in 1951 signing Treaty of San Francisco and in 1956 signing Soviet–Japanese Joint Declaration. Then they had changed their mind. So who would believe they will not change their mind again and will not want all Kuril Islands and Sakhalin

I will tell you the views of the Japanese government.

1. The Northern Territories are not included in the Kuril Islands.

2. The Soviet Union has not participated in the San Francisco Peace Treaty.

3. The only thing Japan promised with the Soviet Union is that it will refund the Habomai island and Shikotan island in return for the Peace Treaty. Japan has not abandoned Kunashiri island and Etorofu island.

4. The UK and the US have abandoned the Yalta talks.The Soviet occupation of the Japanese territory lost a good reason.

Please be aware of the fact that occupation of the Japanese territory by the Soviet Union is taking place after the end of World War II.

>What makes you think that Russia is desperate for some sort of agreement?

Today, in Japan, Japan's Abe prime minister and Russian President Vladimir Putin are in talks.
President Putin professes not accepting Japan's claim.

There is a grand disparity between the population ratio of Far East Russia and Manchuria.
In addition, China is a major economic power beyond Japan, it is also a powerful military state.
If President Vladimir Putin was not present, the vast territory of Siberia, as well as Primorskya, would be China's territory.
President Putin responds sensitively to the logic of violence.

>It isn't useless. It is larger than Belgium.

Certainly, it may be wider than Belgium.
But it is obviously narrower than Siberia.

Germany didn't lose Kalingrad after a war the Russians started by breaking a truce.

>1. The Northern Territories are not included in the Kuril Islands.
That's is a sophistry. This exception was not written in a treaty.
>2. The Soviet Union has not participated in the San Francisco Peace Treaty.
That's not how international treaties work. USSR doesn't have any obligations in this treaty, but Japan has since it came into force.
>Japan has not abandoned Kunashiri island and Etorofu island.
Really?
>6. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics renounces all reparations claims against Japan.
The USSR and Japan agree to renounce all claims by either State, its institutions or citizens, against the other State, its institutions or citizens, which have arisen as a result of the war since 9 August 1945.
Promised to renounce all claims and now have territorial claims.
>4. The UK and the US have abandoned the Yalta talks.The Soviet occupation of the Japanese territory lost a good reason.
US can give orders to Japan, but not to Russia.

Russia should give back Japan's land!

The whole of Karafuto and the Northern Territories!

The people of Japan will not rest until our land in the North, in the South, and in the West are given back!

Korea, let go of Takeshima!

Russia, give back our land!

Taiwan and China, let go of the Senkaku islands!

The Soviet Union dispose unilaterally the Japanese Soviet Union agreement with Japan.
And unduly invaded Japan.
It was terrible.
Japanese ordinary people were not only killed but also deprived and raped.
Japanese soldiers were detained in Siberia and many people died of cold and hunger.
It was the Soviet Union that broke the treaty.
Russia believes in violence.
Because Japan does not possess nuclear weapons, Russia despises Japan.
But Russia will regret it either.
Because Russia has no help from Japan, it can not compete with Chinese invasion.

>The Soviet Union dispose unilaterally the Japanese Soviet Union agreement with Japan.
That treaty was denounced before the war.
And Soviet Union had agreement with US to start a war against Japan. You must agree that treaty with US have priority.

Are you Russian?
You are a very formidable opponent for me.
As Stalin did not forget the resentment of the Russo-Japanese War, the Japanese will not forget the grudge against the Second World War.
The Soviet Union abolished the treaty.
Why does not Russia think Japan does the same?
If Russia returns the territory taken from Japan a little, Japan will help Russia.
Japan will not allow China to invade Russia.

>That treaty was denounced before the war.And Soviet Union had agreement with US to start a war against Japan. You must agree that treaty with US have priority.

Russians are not aware of important things.
The Soviet invasion was cruel.
It clearly violated international law.
As a result, the Japanese do not forget the grudge.
I do not care about promises.

>It was terrible.
Japan was nuked by US, and now Japan a US are best friends. That how all works in this world.

Once Russia returns the territory to Japan, Russia will become a Japanese friend.
Common enemies of Japan, Russia and the United States will become China aiming for world hegemony.

As far as im aware Kaliningrad was offered to Germany after the soviet union fell but they didnt want it back because it was so poor.

>As Stalin did not forget the resentment of the Russo-Japanese War, the Japanese will not forget the grudge against the Second World War.
Then it will be eternal loop of violence.
>The Soviet Union abolished the treaty.
Japan had no chances to win anyway. Joining of Soviet Union just shortened the war and ridded Japan of unnecessary agony.
>Why does not Russia think Japan does the same?
They do.
All treaties are valid untli they are acceptable for both sides or until one side can force other side to fulfill an agreement.
Russia knows that Japan wants or will want more than just Nothern territories, NT are just first step.
In this situation there is no sense to cede territories to Japan.
>If Russia returns the territory taken from Japan a little, Japan will help Russia.
Russia doesn't need help, but it's open for equal partnership.
>Japan will not allow China to invade Russia.
Should not Japan be afraid of China?

If Japanese people really remember grudge for so long then Americans should be cautious of them even more. I believe US will not let Japan be great and dangerous again.

Because Russians possess nuclear weapons and President Putin, Russians believe that Russia is a mighty state, but that is just a delusion.

In other words, if an enemy country possesses nuclear weapons, the advantage of Russia will be lost.

President Putin is not invulnerable. He will die someday.

At that time, the Russians will know the real weakness of Russia.

The difference is that the Japanese has been able to develop good, mutual relations with the USA.
The same as how Poland is better off relationwise with Germany than with Russia today despite the holocaust..

In the American idea, Japan has the right to drop two nuclear bombs against the United States.

But, Japanese people do not have such idea.

There are Japanese who want to have nuclear weapons.
Japan will not drop the nuclear bomb to the United States.
Japan will use nuclear weapons as a deterrent against China's invasion.

Japan didn't even want northern territories in the first place it was their military being their military. Conquest for the sake of conquest. You see this happen in China as well.

Russia wants to eliminate the presence of America from the Far East, but that is a dangerous idea.
Because Russia alone can not win China.

Japanese do not want to kill Russians.
There is no such vengeance in Japanese people.

The threat of China is enormous.
Japan must have nuclear weapons or equivalent defense measures as soon as possible.

Poland and Japan are not independent, they are vassal states. Russia can't have really good relationships with them before good relationships with USA.

>half the thread is just butthurt monkey OP whining

>they are vassal states
i tip my fedora to you good sir

then why Abe is making meetings with Putin while Obama administration keeps bitching?

yea but Russia knows getting in bed with the US to counter China would be very bad for them
it would be Yeltsin all over again

but getting in bed with china carries the same threat, with the possibility of total demographic takeover in the East.

would the Japanese people ever accept a nuclear program though?

I know Japanese people and many of them are very hesitant towards the idea but also feel that America can no longer protect them effectively.

meetings, bitching - just rituals for the public.

Can you cite this? I would like to know more about it.

The Japanese government recognizes China as an absolute virtual enemy country.
Japan knows that the US is weakening, but I do not want the United States to collapse earlier than China.
Japan's strategy is to peace with Russia and to break away from Korea.

It's literally nothing

The Trump regime will make friends with the Putin administration.

Also, Mr. Donald Trump is hostile to China.

Japanese are ethnic groups moving from extreme to extreme.
In time of the emergency, Japan will be armed with nuclear weapons within a few months.

Apart from that, there is no need for Japan to develop nuclear weapons on its own.
In some cases, Japan can borrow it from America.

Same with South Korea then you will be surrounded by hostile nuclear powers. :D

muh archipelago

South Korea has been more hostile towards China than Japan as of late.

Realistic future is Japan and South Korea getting nuclear weapons.

Taiwan will sign a deal with Japan to be under their nuclear umbrella. Mongolia will sign a deal with Russia to be under their nuclear umbrella. So the entire East Asia region will be locked up in nuclear powers and umbrellas.

This trend will accelerate rapidly under a Trump Presidency.

Nobody here has read Dugin?

What does Dugin have to say about it?

All I know is that he has some crackpot theories about annexing Georgia and Ukraine as part of some delusional plan to restore the Russian Empire.

If the Russians wake up to their conscience, Japan will not demand the return of the southern part of Sakhalin and the northern part of the Kuril Islands.

There are rumors that Mr. Vladimir Putin is a shadow(fake man).

A woman who is divorced with Mr. Putin is speaking abroad. She and her daughter are intimidated by those ruling Russia. It can be watched on YouTube. Is this information correct?

From the 22nd century to the 23rd century, Russia will shrink.
Ultimately, Russia will lose all the eastern territory from the Ural Mountains.
Far East Russia's population is less than 10 million people.
Meanwhile, the population of Manchuria (northeastern part of China) is more than 100 million people.
What happens is obvious.

If Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula is Russian territory, Chechnya would be the territory of Chechnya.
Indeed, the residents of the Crimea have confidence in Russia.
That is the right to self-determination.
However, Russia is another ethnic country.
If Russia recognizes the independence of different races in Russia, the Crimea is a territory of Russia.

If Dugin bothered to write about these irrelevant squabbles over worthless land it really cements the view that he's a worthless hack merely pushing chauvinist propaganda.

This is the figure at the time of Russo-Japanese War.
The essence of the Russo-Japanese War is a battle over Manchuria and the Korean Peninsula.
There is Tsushima island (Japanese territory) between Japan and the Korean Peninsula.
Russia was aiming for Tsushima.
Because it is a port that will not freeze all year round.
The Russian Empire was a great country, Japan decided to war.
Japan acquired extra territory.
It is the Korean Peninsula and Manchuria.
The current right wing of Japan is determined not to have a right to the Korean Peninsula and Manchuria.
Japan insists that Tsushima should be a military base instead of South Korea.
Japan will break away from Korea.

did an /int/ poster come here by mistake?