College Degree(mods: it's related to econ)

>Where do I look?
Indeed.com, Monster.com. It's not hard. I'll make a collage for you later if you still can't find anything.

>Are you saying that these jobs will consider anyone, so long as they have a degree? I don't understand how this is possible. A general purpose job?
No. They also demand certain skills. But it will list a bachelor's degree as the minimum for education requirement. This saves employers time, since it immediately eliminates total retards and people devoid of conscientiousness.

>I understand that. I just don't know if it's worth the price. Especially when you hear people saying that they can't find work. Hell, I had a family member who lost her job. She has a degree as well as many years of work experience, but for around half a year(give or take, I don't remember for sure) she was working retail until somebody would/could finally hire her.
I don't know what to tell you. If you think your n=1 sample size study is more persuasive than the BLS national statistics, feel free to assume that college is worthless.

All I know is that a quantitative degree is guaranteed to be worth it, and a shitty major will almost certainly be worth it as well.

do both

That's where you start. When you are 19, you work retail, taco bell, gas stations, shit jobs. You don't leap frog all of the shit jobs and becoming a fucking CEO without climbing some kind of ladder (typically). You start small, build connections, real world experience, and basic fucking work skills. Meet the right people, make the right connections, and with a little luck you will move up in whatever field you happen to fall into.

Or you can drop 5-6 figures and waste 4 years of your life on a dumbshit degree.

The business I work at, we throw away anybody's resume who has a dumbshit degree on it. We've had horrible experience with everybody we've hired who has studied art, English, etc. In our company, we value 4 years of workforce experience more than 4 years of a worthless degree. An English degree on a resume might as well say "lazy dipshit" on it.

> a shitty major will almost certainly be worth it

> we throw away anybody's resume who has a dumbshit degree on it.

Who do I believe?

Here's the breakdown, ignore anyone saying anything apart from this:

>For most good jobs you need a bachelor's degree nowadays
>For really good jobs you need a STEM bachelor's degree
>You will never make over 6 figures if you don't have a bachelor's degree, unless you're lucky, inherited lots of money, or work tons of overtime
>The S in STEM isn't as good as the TEM in STEM

Or you could not be a piece of shit and just study something you know will be in demand and not a fucking meme degree.

The hierarchy goes like this:

1. In demand skilled degree in a difficult subject that lazy dipshit millennials don't want to study
2. No degree, go straight to the workforce and gain real world experience and work ethics
3. A meme degree that is worth less than the toilet paper it's printed on

Continuing on this
>A decent state school is just as good as an ivy league school if you're sufficiently smart and academically successful, when it comes to getting elite jobs. Nobody will gold it against you that you want to X State University but had a 3.8+ GPA with lots of side projects or internships as opposed to someone from Harvard, except extremely picky places
>You HAVE to have at least 1 internship during college or you're severely disadvantaged

Most important
>Computer Science is NOT a meme, it's one of the few degrees where you can easily get a 100k+ starting salary if you're good. Good luck doing that with physics or math without being top 1%

Why bother believing either of us when you can go with the idea we're concordant on; that a technical, quantitative degree is a good idea?

w e w

I'm not sure what's up your ass.

>Or you could not be a piece of shit and just study something you know will be in demand and not a fucking meme degree.

That's implying I am smart enough to pass STEM. I'm probably not.

>Why bother believing either of us when you can go with the idea we're concordant on; that a technical, quantitative degree is a good idea?

Because I'd like to know the full picture.
>>Where do I look?
>Indeed.com, Monster.com. It's not hard. I'll make a collage for you later if you still can't find anything.

indeed.com/viewjob?cmp=Miradx&t=Administrative Assistant&jk=a7672b5eb481df50&q=$40,000
So this what you mean when you say that a bachelor's degree will open up a lot of doors?

>Experienced Administrative Assistance needed to assist and support a senior staff.
>
>Skills and responsibilities include :
>
>Strong interpersonal skills
>Friendly and professional demeanor
>Schedule meetings, appointments, and make travel plans
>Coordinating corporate communication, responding to emails, taking calls, interfacing with customers
>Strong organizational skills and project management skills
>Proficient in Microsoft word and excel skills with ability to learn firm specific programs and software
>Job Type: Part-time

Salary: $25.00 to $30.00 /hour

Maybe this is harder than it sounds, but it sounds a lot like data entry to me. I need to spend 5 figures and 4 years of my life to learn how to type in excel?

It's an entry level job making up to 60k a year, what are you smoking?

A 25-30 dollar per hour job is not just data entry.

If you aren't smart enough, you could learn a trade. You could even go on youtube and learn how to fix boilers or some shit. You wouldn't believe the kind of shit you can learn on your own on youtube.

You being just 19 I can sense that even you concede that meme degrees are worthless and society pretends that they are worth the time and money. You think that successful businesses got their success by hiring people who studied dumb shit? No. In the back of their mind they know that these people are frauds and aren't worth hiring. That's part of the reason why there's a huge excess of people with meme degrees who can't find work.

where the hell did I say it was entry level? It says in the job description that it requires 3 years experience. I never said it was entry level.
What are you smoking?
>Coordinating corporate communication, responding to emails, taking calls, interfacing with customers
>Proficient in Microsoft word and excel skills with ability to learn firm specific programs and software
>Schedule meetings, appointments, and make travel plans

This requires 4 years of schooling to be able to do?

Sure, it's not something you pick up just like that. But, I have a hard time it would take anyone other than a retard 4 years to figure out how to do this stuff.
>there's a huge excess of people with meme degrees who can't find work.

Can I have a source for that?

>You being just 19 I can sense that even you concede[...]

I'm not sure why you say that.

3 or fewer years of experience is entry level m8.

I honestly don't get your skepticism, I gave you the statistics showing that college was worth it on average. That suggests that if you pick a good degree, it'll certainly be worth it.

>Study accounting
>Drop out because it's boring
>Become real estate agent
>None of my clients can afford anything in Hongcouver
>Make no sales
>Try to write a murder novel
>Make no sales
>Learn about drop shipping from biz
>www.fatale.store
>Make no sales
>Go back to accounting
>MFW

When will this college degrees are useless meme die? If I didn't drop out I would've had my degree by now and be making $50000 a year instead of being a part time security guard while I study.

Stay in school biz.

so what was the point of you writing

>It's an entry level job making up to 60k a year, what are you smoking?

What did you mean by that?

>I honestly don't get your skepticism,

I don't know about you, but I don't want to throw away tens of thousands of dollars for no reason. Especially if other people are telling me not to. The point of this thread is to come to a conclusion on which side is right.

Let me ask you. Why do you think these other people are telling me college isn't worth it? Or in particular, anything other than stem isn't worth it? What do you say to those people?

>What did you mean by that?
Making up to $30 an hour with a shit-tier degree and only 3 years of experience is crazy good, well above the national average for all workers.

>Why do you think these other people are telling me college isn't worth it?
Because they didn't go to college.

College graduates make 50% more than non-college graduates, I don't know what else you need to hear.

This shit is not rocket science dude. It's common sense. The education bubble is popping. Excess of useless degrees being given out and not enough jobs going around. Ask yourself, how are you going to separate yourself from them?

Look, if you are going to go to college, the simplest and best thing you can do is analyze your choice of degree as an economist would. What is going to pay out the most in the long run? Is it going to be a liberal arts degree, or is it going to be a STEM degree? Don't bother going if you are going to just piss away 4 years of your life on shit you will never be able to apply in the real world.

I'm done here... I've said my point multiple times. If you want to believe the lies that your teachers have told you over and over for 18 years, it's no skin off of my back. You seem to be clinging to this notion that a meme degree is going to somehow put you ahead in life, but that's not necessarily the case. More often than not it's a complete pissing away of time and money, and can ruin you financially.

Accounting is actually a good degree though. In your case, yeah, stay in school and study that shit.

I don't even get what you're implying. That is there because they don't want to waste time training some highschool dropout on how to use a computer. And yes there are many people who do not know how to use Microsoft word at all. Requiring a bachelors gurantees that whoever applies and that they hire can do "basic" tasks that many people who do not have one can't do.
I have basic in quotation marks because as it turns out, they aren't so basic, you are aware there are adults who can't read right?

In a case like this the bachelors proves that you can do a certain amount of work, do work similar to the job, proves you're smart enough to pick something up, and proves you stuck with something for 4 years. Can a person do all of that without a degree? Sure, but who the fuck is going to waste their time hoping you can prove it when there are people with proof who they can hire instead?
They don't care about what learned for a job like that they care that you're not a waste of resources and time. This is why many entry level jobs require at least a bachelors now.

Got it?

>Because they didn't go to college.

l o l o l lo l o lo l

Are you serious?
hombre, did you go to college?

>You seem to be clinging to this notion that a meme degree is going to somehow put you ahead in life, but that's not necessarily the case

m8. calmdown. Just because I haven't sworn fealty to you, doesn't mean you are wrong. I'm just trying to get as much information as I can here.

Yeah, I went to college. I studied economics. It's not the best degree to study but it's also not the worst.

I ended up in a completely unrelated field and my degree meant nothing in terms of my career. I would've been hired even if I didn't have the degree because I had the right connection.

I'm 10 years older than you and I see tons of failures with dumb degrees who owe student loans that they'll never be able to pay back. Lots of people went to school and studied "literally anything" just to get a piece of paper and felt somehow magically it would get them a job. It doesn't work like that. Sure maybe it could get your foot in the door in SOME cases, but if you are a piece of shit, a degree isn't going to save you from getting shitcanned soon after being hired. Being reliable and having a work ethic is underrated these days.

So basically a college degree weeds out the retards. Sure.
I still don't see why there couldn't be a better way of doing that that wouldn't require somebody putting tens of thousands of dollars on the line, and themselves into debt.

You'd think somebody would come up with some sort of certification you could get, right?

>Being reliable and having a work ethic is underrated these days.

What do you mean by that? Can you give me an example of somebody being shitcanned because they lacked these qualities?

If you don't mind me asking, what do you do?

Is there any data anywhere about graduates and how fast they get to work after school? Imho it seems just so fucking pointless to pay tens of k's$ for a degree that leaves you hanging for years and you have to settle for a shitty job anyway. I'm working only for money and nothing else, in my point of view you have to be atleast mildly autistic if you get into, for example, engineering just because you like technology. That's not how the world works, even if you are a highly trained worker who makes 10-20k$ more/year than your bluecollar friend, it usually means you have to work relatively more making money to the same boss as the average Joe. Just find something, anything really, that pays relatively well without the need to sacrifice too much of your time doing that job, learn to invest instead and create a passive income. Make the money work for you, not vice versa

Yeah. I won't go into detail but I work with electrical design and planning. The small company I work for hired two underlings for me. They both had college degrees but were typical lazy douchebags and lacked work ethic. I'll give you an example. Took 15 minutes to take a dump. Did work as slow as possible to try and justify their 8 hour work days. Did work sloppily and gave no real shit about the business. They get fired, and I get a raise.

>You'd think somebody would come up with some sort of certification you could get, right?
Yeah it's called a degree

That thing that cost 5 figures and 4 years of your life? Nobody can come up with something better?

?5-6 figure amount of dollars and minimum 4 years of your youth wasted on what a 15 minute basic literacy test and a sit down interview could do

So efficient, would do again, 9/10

>STEM

You're going to be replaced by pajeets. I've already read some accounts of people having to train their replacements who are all on work visas and mostly indian. Don't get into STEM unless you want to be replaced in a few years by foreigners. Trade school is still lucrative enough for now.

I thought I was doing you a favor, telling you that college was worth it, but the statistics seem to mean nothing to you. Let me make it abundantly clear, here's the average salaries of a random selection of skilled trade workers:

bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/electricians.htm - $52,720 per year
bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm - $51,450 per year
bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/brickmasons-blockmasons-and-stonemasons.htm - $41,230 per year
bls.gov/ooh/production/welders-cutters-solderers-and-brazers.htm - $39,390 per year
bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/carpenters.htm - $43,600 per year
bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/aircraft-and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm - $60,270 per year

Wow, it's almost like these careers don't make very much money! And the most lucrative of the skilled trades (construction manager, air traffic control worker, radiation therapist, nuclear technician) require an associates degree at the very least. Now let's compare to some jobs available to you if you have a degree:

bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-and-information-research-scientists.htm - $111,840 per year
bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/mechanical-engineers.htm - $84,190 per year
bls.gov/ooh/math/mathematicians.htm - $105,810 per year
bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm - $102,280 per year
bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htm - $96,270 per year
bls.gov/ooh/math/statisticians.htm - $80,500 per year

It really causes one to ponder. If you are sitting there, wondering what the best path is to making a lot of money, I can tell you with certainty that it involves a college education.

>Yeah it's called a degree
This is just not true, I'm a process operator right now and I do not have a degree on that, just worked for 5 years in the mining industry and as a mechanical assembler, then saw an open inquiry for a job in the semi-conductor industry and applied for the job. Got it because of my previous experience and actually made money in the process instead of taking huge amounts of debt

I recommend STEM but obviously not all STEM degrees are worthwhile. It's gotta be in shit that isn't easily replaceable by Pajeets.

In the end though, nobody's job is 100% safe and secure, we all need to constantly be thinking about the future of our career prospects and looking for alternate ways of making money in the event that a street shitter takes our job.

I don't think many people are going to argue that college is never worth it, you just listed career fields that are highly specialized and don't consist of meme degrees. All of those are top tier STEM fields.

Now compare those fields to sociology majors.

lmao

you're too much. All the fields you listed that require a college education are stem fields. They pay so well for a reason: Most people aren't cut out for stem.
We already agreed on this. stem is worth going to school for.

And you're proving my point by showing these trade workers making 50k a year, when the median salary of an english major is 40k, plus all of the debt. Didn't I mention that earlier?

bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/sociologists.htm - $79,750 per year
bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/psychologists.htm - $75,230 per year

I mean, regardless, nobody in this thread is advising you to go for a meme degree, so I don't even know why that would cross your mind.

>complaining that workers take 15 minutes to shit
Jesus, Shekelburg, calm down, not everyone was blessed with bowels faster than a speeding bullet.

...

Sometimes you need 15 minutes to shit. But when it's every single time there's a theme that emerges.

Why should they give a fuck about you? It's not some sort of consolidated effort between all companies you know. As it stands it's the best certification there is and the best weed out. Don't like it, too bad.
By the way we are obviously discussing this from the perspective of people who don't have half a decade of experience in a job already and are looking for their first one.

How do you ever need 15 minutes to shit? Granted is a bit different from pissing but it shouldn't take you that much longer, like 5 minutes tops.

This.

I did a year of Economics and Finance, the only thing I learned in that year is that the job market for economics graduates was oversupplied and hence wages were deflated.

For the same workload/price I could get a skilled degree that was in demand and short supply.

So I switched to Electrical Engineering and yeah, far more internships, far more job opportunities at the end.

If you go to college get a 'Professional Degree'. i.e. a degree that qualfies you to practice as a skilled worker (engineer, nurse, doctor)

Also law is the exception, don't do law unless your colleges law school is ranked in the national top 10/top 5

>As it stands it's the best certification there is and the best weed out

No it isn't, and businesses are starting to get keen on it. College is becoming a lot more dumbed down these days. In the workplace I've been in, I'd say that people who didn't graduate college have been better workers than those who have.

Only people who believe in our high school teachers' and professors' lies believe that a degree means jack shit in terms of work performance. Almost any entry-level job an 8th grader can do with just a little bit of teaching and experience. There's no real reason why you should need a bachelor's degree for most jobs, but because anybody who can breathe can get one, well, we might as well require it!

lmao, I never understood this. Do some people have naturally shit tier digestive systems? i hear about "blah blah blah taco bell diarrhea" jokes all the time, but I've never had an issue digesting taco bell. If anything, mcdonalds is what gets you.

Seven minutes tops. Sometimes you have to do a lot of wiping.

>nobody in this thread is advising you to go for a meme degree

Do you read what you write?

>But a college degree will still pay itself off compared to the average person who doesn't have one, even with a shitty major.

also, in response to the links you posted

>Most sociology jobs require a master’s degree or Ph.D.

>Many bachelor’s degreeholders will find positions in related fields, such as social services, education, healthcare, or public policy.

Is this what they call public sector? I'm asking.

>Why should they give a fuck about you?

I'm not saying they should, and they obviously don't.

> It's not some sort of consolidated effort between all companies

again, never said that. If anything, it would be a consolidated effort between colleges, but I never said it was.

>>Many bachelor’s degreeholders will find positions in related fields, such as social services, education, healthcare, or public policy.
>Is this what they call public sector? I'm asking.

Yes, that's the public sector, and the funny thing about the public sector is that the entire existence of their jobs depend on government subsidy. In other words, nobody would pay out of their own pockets to solicit their services in an open market. They rely on the government to pump taxpayer money into their stupid bullshit program and mental gymnastics to justify why they are stealing taxpayer money.

If a degree has no private sector use, it's not worth studying.

Interesting. That's what I figured. I've heard that govt. jobs are pretty cushy though. Is that true? Something about benefits or stable employment.

I'd you haven't noticed we don't live in some ancap nation, we live in a nation where the government exists. So to say it's worthless when it gets you a cushy 9-4 in an air conditioned office with nice government pensions and benefits and all those holidays, it's pretty dumb

>>nobody in this thread is advising you to go for a meme degree

>Do you read what you write?

>>But a college degree will still pay itself off compared to the average person who doesn't have one, even with a shitty major.

Nothing I have said is contradictory. Nobody is advising you to get a shitty meme degree in college, but a meme degree will still easily pay itself off compared to the average person who didn't go to college.

It's not reliable. Government departments shut down. Funding gets cut. Presidencies change. If your existence depends entirely on government subsidy you are on thin ice.

A lot of these colleges are relatively exclusive schools.

The average mid career salary is 60k. That's after you spend 4(or more) years of your time, and lots of your money. Not to mention the risk involved.
If I could learn a trade and make 50k, why would I choose college over that?

>a meme degree will still easily pay itself off compared to the average person who didn't go to college.

Please, explain.

>A lot of these colleges are relatively exclusive schools.
The collage was clearly not meant to illustrate starting salaries.

If the average mid-career salary for one of these English is 65k, and the average mid-career salary for a trade is 50k, then the meme-degree career path will easily pay itself off and be more lucrative than the trade.

Your original post asked if degrees (excepting STEM) were less useful than trades. It has been shown that skilled trades do not make very much money, and even some of the most frequently mocked degrees DO make significant amounts of money. The increase is more than enough to cover the cost of the education. This goes back to my original point: STEM degrees are certainly worth it, and even some of these liberal art meme degrees are probably worth it.

I am not interested in bickering back and forth about which degrees are more likely to be worth it than others.

>even some of the most frequently mocked degrees DO make significant amounts of money.

>I am not interested in bickering back and forth about which degrees are more likely to be worth it than others.

???

>the meme-degree career path will easily pay itself off and be more lucrative than the trade.

Did you miss the part where I said you put yourself into debt and spend 4 years of your life?

Did you miss the part where I said it would pay itself off?

What are you, a rich kid? RISK. WHAT IS RISK?
Not everyone can afford to put themselves into 5-6 figures of debt.

40 yrs @ 50k = 2 million
36 yrs @ 65k = 2.34 million
When you factor in that the non-stem college experience is pretty fun, and that a white collar job sipping coffee and chatting about baseball is comfier than a job at a construction site, it makes sense.

The real red pill, though, is figuring out what you want out of life and pursuing a career that aligns with those goals.

In-state public schools don't cost that much. Also you are conveniently ignoring the cost (opportunity and actual) of vocational school / apprenticeship.

thesimpledollar.com/why-you-should-consider-trade-school-instead-of-college/

assuming the above article is accurate, trade school is a lot cheaper than college.

>The average trade school degree costs $33,000, which, compared to a $127,000 bachelor's degree, means a savings of $94,000.

>Of course, most students in both cases won’t fully finance their education. They’ll work and find other sources of income to help with the process, meaning the gap will be smaller in the average case. Research gathered in 2012 suggests that the average college student debt load is $29,900, and that number rises to $36,327 when factoring in interest. Conversely, the average debt load for students graduating from a two-year technical school is $10,000, roughly 70% less than the four-year graduate.

>According to statistics, a person with a bachelor’s degree is projected to earn around $1.1 million, compared to the $393,000 projected earnings of an associate’s degree or trade school program graduate.

>Veeky Forums
>people not knowing econometrics / stats

I got an associates in IT and I was thinking about going for bachelors in psych because I actually enjoy the subject immensely but fuck I am not wasting thousands of dollars for some dumb housewife to teach me shit; I will just get a bunch of books.

Just try looking for any job in your area
Tons of then ask for a college degree without specifying any in particular
For whatevet reason it's looked on as an indication of being a hard worker. I dont fully understand why, but thats just how it is
I tried making it without college after high school and you get pretty tired of no degree jobs fast

Is business a meme degree?

Nope

Yes

Just do engineering, fag

I'm 1.5 years away from a business degree though. It would be a waste of time/money to switch now and start back from square one.

I hope you're at least getting a math minor