What flaws are there in anarcho-capitalism? I used to make fun of it, but the more I try to debunk it, the more I start to agree with it and I feel like it's too good to work.
What do you guys think? I can nitpick some things like animal rights (e.g. is raping animals an act of aggression while slaughtering for food is not?), not being required to feed your child, social security (though I hear there's style private alternative that I haven't looked only yet), etc.
So Veeky Forums, tell me why anarcho-capitalism is bad or explain why it's good I guess.
It doesn't provide for the general welfare as well as a nation with an active state. I'd encourage you to look at the oligopolistic practices of the robber barons in 19th & 20th century America.
You had companies like Ford hiring their own private police forces to nakedly intimidate & often savagely beat workers who attempted to unionize. GM spent millions bugging its own factories & buying 'stool pigeons' to try and catch union-minded workers. Steel companies would play on the racial divides of its own workers to prevent them from coming together and bargaining.
You essentially have a dog-eat-dog world where the mass majority of people are disadvantaged & mistreated in the face of powerful capital.
Jose Reyes
perhaps some sort of happy medium is possible?
Ethan Cook
The most glaring issue with anarcho-capitalism is its lack of development. AnCaps can't even agree on what constitutes aggression, which is key to how Ancapistan functions. There's the fact that the conclusion to anarcho-capitalism is the creation of a state. And also objections to be made regarding the legitimacy of rights, property, etc. Tons of ethical objections as well, if you choose to go down that road. Perhaps this could be chalked up to be due to the ideology's infancy, but for the time being, it just won't work.
Evan Thomas
It rationalizes itself into iron-clad, unequal contracts enforced by violence very quickly.
Jonathan Thomas
Not to mention its policies in regards to other states. It's like another conspicuous -ism in that you need the whole world to be this way to prevent getting utterly buttblasted or client state'd by the nearest centralized military force.
Zachary Sanchez
Anarcho capitalism starts with the assertion that it is uneconomical (and thus unthinkable) for private actors to use economic violence against other people; overlooking the main reason that it is uneconomical, namely that the state doesn't like it and tends to crack down harshly on that sort of thing.
Remove the state, and you'll get the British East India company all over again, if you don't have wholesale dissolution into Sub-Saharan Africa roving warband "economic" model.
Gavin Reed
>one is a major port that is a vital part of the world economy >the other is a tourist destination. really makes you think.
Owen Martin
The one that relies on trade between communist China and the capitalist first world is the vital part of the world economy.
Of course, capitalism does not mean the free market, even if Hong Kong approaches it relatively closely.
Luis Smith
>Hong Kong >example of Capitalism Moron detected.
Charles Miller
no u
Connor Hill
Give us an example of capitalism.
Nicholas Wood
Why is it so hard for Cuba to maintain their buildings?
They control an entire economy. They should have money to spend on this shit. People living paycheck to paycheck can do it in the states.
Nicholas Clark
Look up the East India Company. That's probably the best modern example of something close to anarcho-capitalism. A more loose comparison would be to feudalism in Europe.
Brody Perez
It's good if you're a Fortune 500 CEO
Henry Cruz
They never conquered anyone?
Adam Diaz
The fall of capitalism is inevitable
William Jones
Never heard of India, huh?
Brandon Gonzalez
Somalia.
William Howard
Read the Hind Swaraj by Ghandi. It's like 80 pages and lays this out perfectly well.
Nobody has *ever* conquered India. Mughals came close, but that was the closest. India was not conquered by Britain. India willingly accepted British common law as implemented by the BEIC as a precondition to trade, after which it was annexed peacefully. Many Indian Kingdoms rejected BEIC common law, and so the BEIC traded with the next city down the coast. The cities that traded became fabulously wealthy, and the ones that did not are no-name shitholes they are today.
Some call it a "Race to the Bottom". A law of natural selection is that the species that sells out survives and proliferates, while the species that sticks to its principles dies on its hill. Its true for companies, nations, politicians, cultures, and even memes as much as it is for any species. Anything which natural selection operates upon will lower its quality in order to outcompete.
Ancap need not claim a perfect society, only a society that outperforms one in which the state has a monopoly on force. The race to the bottom is the biggest and most fair objection to Ancap I've encountered yet OP. Having an external force penalize mutual game theoretical defection can in some cases provide clearly superior outcomes. The Ancapper reply, of course, is that all historical examples of government force have themselves to one degree or another been subject to their own race to the bottom. But they probably do slow that race in fields besides their own sometimes. Government isn't any more malicious than a corporation- but it is considerably more incompetent without the same responsive selection pressure.
Also, look into Icelandic history for Ancap successfully implemented.
Juan Cooper
>gandhi >relevant please. Gandhi's grasp of historigraphy was shaky at best.
Samuel Foster
They created private police forces to defend against the intimidation and violence of the unions.
Most of the time the private security forces took the brunt of the beatings.
Isaiah Rogers
I live in Mexico that photo from havana looks like any city to be honest the comparison is not great with english hongkong and embargoed island., compare Cuba to open Haiti
Henry Ortiz
There can only be 1 sun in the sky. All forms of anarchism are destined to fail.
Camden Williams
First explain how anarcho-capitalism differentiates itself from standard capitalism.
Nathaniel Jackson
>there a people this cucked by industry
I don't use the word cucked lightly, but there's no other way to say it
Adrian Walker
...
Lincoln Adams
There is nothing wrong with either OP's picture or yours.
OP chose city centers in 3 pictures and a random sample on the top right, maybe not up to the strict standards a statistician would demand but not really cherry picking
In your picture the viewer will be aware you are cherry picking to make a point. However there is a hidden point behind it.
Rwanda may be poor but they actually give a shit about their country unlike the typical American.
>Keep Kigali Clean ;) >people actually doing it
When was the last time we ever saw anything that positive? The 1950s?
Chase Anderson
>The fall of capitalism is inevitable No, it's not.
Stop being a delusional marxist.
Evan Perez
Not an ancap but I hate when delusional leftists strawman it.
It worked before. The american midwest in the 1800s was basically anarcho-capitalism and it was very peaceful despite what Medieval iceland and medieval ireland were essentially ancap.
royhalliday.home.mindspring.com/history.htm There's links about somalia in this article. Somalia was never ancap, but the links show there were definitely massive benefits from somalia's socialist government collapsing.
Joshua Nguyen
>The american midwest in the 1800s was basically anarcho-capitalism and it was very peaceful despite what
*** Meant to say despite what hollywood would have you believe.
Juan Turner
>The american midwest in the 1800s was basically anarcho-capitalism
You mean...before industrialization created massive corporations who dominated certain markets with monopolistic practices and in many recorded instances created company towns where individual workers were cowed with violence & perpetual debt to toil in abysmal conditions for pennies with no recourse?
The same companies that, when workers tried to unionize in order to negotiate for modest improvements like...a ban on child labor, paying women who did essentially the same work as men the same amounts and 8 hour work days used privatized armies to intimidate, brutalize & in numerous instances fire upon & kill the offending parties?
Ryder Kelly
>who dominated certain markets with monopolistic practices What "monopolies". Standard oil only had like 65% market share a year before the government foolishly decided to break it up.
There are countless examples of companies trying to form monopolies during the gilded age and market forces destroyed them because another firm would come along and take their market share.
>and in many recorded instances created company towns where individual workers were cowed with violence & perpetual debt to toil in abysmal conditions for pennies with no recourse? and yet their living standards were still much more higher than they were just 30 years before this period
The market and economic production ended things like company towns.
>a ban on child labor Stupid. Child labor was a fact of all human history. Everyone just worked. It was the market and economic production that increased wages, lowered prices and made everyone economically productive enough so that children didn't have to work anymore. Capitalism ended child labor. Child labor laws were passed years after this happened.
Also take the modern world, whenever child labor laws are passed in third world, the children either starve to death or go into prostitution because their shitty economies aren't productive enough.
Child labor laws are horrible.
>used privatized armies to intimidate, brutalize & in numerous instances fire upon & kill the offending parties? FUCK YEAH. I only wish these companies were more aggressive with their anti-union activities.
Dominic Morales
>m-muh unions should be destroyed You're quite literally a pseudo-feudalist. Explain your problem with unions.
Christopher Campbell
US Steel, Standard Oil, GM, Ford, Chrysler. All dominated their respective markets. I never said they were 'monopolies'. The markets were oligarchic with a few big firms controlling almost the entire market using monopolistic techniques to incorporate, undercut or destroy their competition.
>and yet their living standards were still much more higher than they were just 30 years before this period In many cases they weren't. Miners, sharecroppers & many industrial workers lived hand to mouth under constant threat of losing work for any reason. Those that had the good fortune of keeping their jobs were subjected to practices like the "speed-up" where employees were meant to preform the duties that were previously done by 2 or more people.
>The market and economic production ended things like company towns. The Government's influence on the market & labor is what ended company towns. It wasn't until the Government guaranteed labor the right to form unions and instituted certain regulations on wages & safety that company towns stopped being a viable model.
>Capitalism ended child labor. Child labor laws were passed years after this happened. The ending of Child Labor was one of the first issues that Unions were resolved to deal with. It took the pressure of organized labor to force the market's hand, the same organized labor that Capital violently protested against and was only allowed to coalesce due to Governmental influence.
>I only wish these companies were more aggressive with their anti-union activities. Oh, you're an edgelord with no perspective.
Owen Perry
debating the merits and demerits of an-cap belongs on /pol/ debating the history of an-cap might belong on Veeky Forums since this looks like the former,
Easton Thompson
>East India Company
Literally a British for-profit paramilitary regime
Jace Long
>What flaws are there in anarcho-capitalism Capitalism can't be anarchic. Sooner or later the state structure rebuilds itself.
Carson Thomas
>Medieval iceland and medieval ireland were essentially ancap. There where nothing capitalistic about medieval iceland, what are you on about.
Nolan Phillips
Psychopathy, it exists and isn't that uncommon. What's going to stop from bands of warlords from forming and bringing the peaceful adherents of the NAP to heel?
Josiah Gonzalez
Dont worry user, he's already basically revealed himself to be a feudalist in denial, its no wonder he picked such batshit examples.
