Veeky Forumstory books

I'm wanting to start studying history more so I picked up some books that my parents had. Has anyone read these? Are any of these worth reading?

- Holy War: The Crusades and Their Impact on Today's World (by Karen Armstrong)
- The Essential Kabbalah (by Daniel C. Matt)
- The Bhagavad-Gita (translated by Barbara Stoler Miller)
- The Tibetan Book of the Dead (translated by Robert A. F. Thurman
- The Way of a Pilgrim (translated by R.M. French)
- Tao Te Ching (by Lao Tzu, translated by Victor H. Mair)
- Day of Empire (by Amy Chua)
- A History of God: The 4000 year quest of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (by Karen Armstrong)
- Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror (by Anonymous)
- The Silk Roads (by Peter Frankopan)

Any opinions would be much appreciated!

Other urls found in this thread:

bookzz.org/book/2385146/1e7064
bookzz.org/book/1050362/5987ad
bookzz.org/book/829638/f2ecc8
bookzz.org/book/2725056/5669b0
ctext.org/dao-de-jing/ens
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

I'd reccommend starting with History of God. I haven't read it myself, but what I liked to do when I was starting out was read a big volume that covered a very long and broad period of history, and from there I could pick out what I found to be the most interesting parts and do more specialized reading on them.

History of God is a fantastic book

Didn't read any of these but I'll try to help.

Some seems not worth reading if you want to study history seriously, like the Karen Armstrong ones. Basically you should not read novels, fictions, or books written by people who are not historians unless you want be casual about it.

Otherwise raw material like Tao Te Ching can be good, though you might be lost if you don't have any context. For example Herodotus is the first real historian, his books are invaluable, but it can get really dry and you might want to jump ahead and read historians who studied his work and made books about it if you're not into historiography.

thank you thank you
thats the one i was thinking of starting with

how im thinking that i might approach it, is by reading those more casual ones to get some general ideas about the time period, and then moving on to read stuff by actual historians to get the details straight. and ive heard about those herodotus books, ill definitely pick those up sometime

Well you've got a couple of religious texts there that could be all worth reading, however I'd say The Tibetan Book of the Dead doesn't really work well by itself unless you know Tibetan basic stuff already. The Tao Te Ching stands well on its own and I would surely recommend it, however the quality of the translations varies wildly, I've seen some "translated" by people who admitted not to know Chinese, and others in which the author read whatever he wanted to read in it. This particular translator seems legit but I've never read anything of his so who knows. It's very cryptic even in the original language so yeah.

well its a good thing that i like chinese history then, thank you

Do you have a particular period that interests you? It would be easier for us to recommend books that way.

unfortunately i do not. ive just recently discovered that history is a very interesting subject and i only really know about world history in somewhat broad terms

Just finished the Marco Polo series on Netflix, anyone got any good history books on the Mongols?

Possibly can be Historical fiction too, similar to Creation by Gore Vidal.

Also have anyone read this? Is it good?

Robert Mark's Origins of the Modern World is a good start imo. It is a good world history and if you find an area that catches your interest you'll then be able to narrow your search. History is such a huge topic you'll never know it all. The best you can do is find out what you're interested in and take it from there. You're interests will likely change as you discover more, but that is part of the fun of learning history.

free download of Marks' book
bookzz.org/book/2385146/1e7064

Morgan, David. The Mongols. 2d ed. Malden, MA: Blackwell, 2007.
>Remains the classic introduction to the study of the Mongols. In addition to sections covering the Mongol expansion, it also discusses the military and government structure. The last chapter of the second edition is also useful for its discussion of the historiographical changes since Morgan’s first edition in 1986.

Saunders, J. J. The History of the Mongol Conquests. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 2001.
Originally published in 1971, this work remains the most scholarly account of the Mongol conquests as a narrative history, although other works in this article go into more detail.

Weatherford, Jack. Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World. New York: Crown, 2004.
>A New York Times bestseller. Weatherford’s writing draws readers into the work. The true value comes from his training in anthropology, but his historical interpretation can get imaginative at times.
free dl:
bookzz.org/book/1050362/5987ad

Ratchnevsky, Paul. Genghis Khan: His Life and Legacy. Translated and edited by T. N. Haining. Oxford: Basil Blackwell, 1991.
>This is probably the granddaddy of all serious biographies of Chinggis Khan in English. Ratchnevsky uses primary sources in Chinese, Persian, and Russian and, of course, reads all of the relevant European languages.

could only find on free download

moar

Allsen, Thomas T. Culture and Conquest in Mongol Eurasia. Cambridge Studies in Islamic Civilization. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press, 2001.
>Allsen examines in detail how the economic, military, political, religious, medical, and gastronomic imperatives the Mongols set into motion had an effect on material resources, personnel, technologies, and information throughout Eurasia. He focuses especially on China and Persia as cultural and technological centers of the time.
bookzz.org/book/829638/f2ecc8

Jackson, Peter. The Mongols and the West, 1221–1410. Medieval World. Harlow, UK, and New York: Pearson Longman, 2005.
>A noted authority in the field, Jackson offers a comprehensive look at the extent and nature of Mongol interactions with western Europe and West Asia. He also briefly treats missionaries and adventurers (such as the Polos) in China and provides a useful bibliography.
bookzz.org/book/2725056/5669b0

Rachewiltz, Igor de. Papal Envoys to the Great Khans. Stanford, CA: Stanford University Press, 1971.
>Meant for a general, educated audience, this book narrates the story of papal envoys to the Mongol Great Khans during the 13th and 14th centuries. It includes 14th-century missions to the Yuan rulers.

Have you ever read Ursula K LeGuin's translation and interpretation in simple terms that an average person can understand? Helped me out with the more cryptic sections.

Do you have a recommended translation of the Tao Te Ching?

Joke-tier. I don't know if you know Chinese or not, but for the benefit of others, let's take a look at the very first page.
>If you can talk about it,
>it ain't Tao.
>If it has a name,
>it's just another thing.

Now let's forgive the nigga meme speech, that's not even the worst part.

>道可道也,非恆道也
>名可名也,非恆名也

I'll just give you the meaning of each hanzi here. Remember that in ancient Chinese, the distinction between nouns and verbs was very hazy. Fire could both mean fire or to light something on fire etc. Also Tao literally means way.
>Way, possible, way, emphatic particle , not, constant, way, emphatic particle.
>Name, possible, name, emphatic particle , not, constant, name, emphatic particle.

Even just looking at this shit here, you can tell the part about the "way that can be way'd" that is "the way that can be trodden" is absent. Gone. I don't know shit about this author, but this is exactly what happens when someone who knows nothing about Chinese tries to translate Chinese things. If she knows Chinese than she just ignored it and wrote down her own Tao Fan Fic.

ctext.org/dao-de-jing/ens
This site offers a decent translation, even though it's quite poetic, plus the ability to check for each individual character. This is the best you can achieve short of studying Chinese. You basically have to double check every translation you come across.

Some apparently innocuous warning signs that a translation you're reading could be fucked up:
-Chapter 5, it makes no mentions of "straw/grass dogs" or something like that. Nobody really knows what these were, but if they're not there, the author just decided to go "I don't understand so I'll leave it out". He or she likely did this somewhere else too.
-Chapter 6, "Valley gods/spirits/etc." Again if these are not mentioned, the author just thought this was too barbaric or some shit and decided to leave them out. Who knows what else is missing.

Welp, apparently I criticized the wrong author. Turns out this translation wasn't by this Ursula woman but by someone else entirely. Google search fooled me.
I've found a recording of the actual Ursula version on youtube, I'll listen to it and write back later.
Nevertheless I guess it shows how much you can fuck up one translation.

>Tao Te Ching

I've read the one translated and annotated by Derek Lin.

>chapter 5
Heaven and Earth are impartial1
And regard myriad things as straw dogs
The sages are impartial
And regard people as straw dogs2

The space between Heaven and Earth
Is it not like a bellows?
Empty, and yet never exhausted
It moves, and produces more

Too many words hasten failure3
Cannot compare to keeping quiet4

1The original Chinese characters bu ren are often mistranslated as “ruthless” or “without compassion.” This produces statements at odds with reality, because real-life sages are compassionate individuals—hardly ruthless.
The true meaning of bu ren is that the Tao does not play favorites. The rain waters weeds and orchids equally; the sun shines on everyone with the same brightness and warmth despite variations in individual merits. The sage, in emulating the Tao, also regards everyone in the same egalitarian light—none higher and none lower.

2 Straw dogs are literally small dog figurines made from straw. They were used in ancient times for rituals, and then discarded after use. It is a striking metaphor when we consider how we are similar to the straw dogs. We are here to go through the ritual called life; when the ritual is done there is no further use for the physical body, so it is discarded.

3 “Too many words” here means too much bureaucracy, or too many rules and regulations.

4 I have translated the last character, zhong, as “quiet.” This can be confusing even to native Chinese speakers. According to the dictionary, it means “middle” or “center.” Thus, one may assume the last line has to do with centering oneself or holding on to the principle of moderation. This is probably not correct, because the previous line is not about the danger of extremes.
The real meaning of zhong, in ancient times and in this particular context, is silence. When we see how the maddening “noise” of complex bureaucracy and too many laws hasten failure, we would naturally want to reach for its opposite—the quietness of simplicity.

>chapter 6
The valley spirit, undying
Is called the Mystic Female1

The gateway of the Mystic Female
Is called the root of Heaven and Earth2

It flows continuously, barely perceptible
When utilized, it is never exhausted3


1The spirit of the valley is a powerful symbol for yin, the universal female principle. It is eternal; it has always existed and will always exist. This principle has many names. We can call it the sacred feminine, or the Mystic Female.

2 The Mystic Female is the ultimate source of all living things. The ancient Chinese noted that women were responsible for the miracle of life, and therefore had to possess a measure of divine power. They respected this power and regarded it as the basis of existence (the root of Heaven and Earth).

3 The essence of life itself is a continuous flow. We may take it for granted and not pay attention to it, but it is always there. Because life begets life, its power extends indefinitely into the future. It does not matter how much we utilize; we can never use it up.
As Tao cultivators, we are in tune with this essence. We recognize the goddess in every woman and celebrate the sacred power of the feminine. Let us be mindful of the truth that we all come from the Mystic Female, without which none of us can exist.

Cool thread. Has anyone got recommendations for ancient greek history? I'm not sure if it is a good idea to start with Herodotus and Thucydides.

Looks good, but as rule of thumb, ignore every comment that starts with "As Tao cultivators, we" and "Let us be" . Chances are high that the very personal opinion of the author will follow. As does here
>We recognize the goddess in every woman
He even admitted that the passage was about the feminine principle, not particular women. Why add this? Not sure what he was thinking. Possibly a closet feminist.

Also as a fun side note, the term "woman" does not appear in the book. So if you see it in translation, you're probably reading a feminist version.

Herodotus is pretty easy to get into. You may want to have a quick read online about the Persian Wars and Ancient Greece in general if you're unfamiliar. I haven't read Thucydides yet, but I plan to soon.

I've read Silk Roads. Pretty decent.

This one's pretty good. Also looking for more suggestions on Mongol books.