Let's talk about the Bronze Age Collapse.
Has there been any further narrowing down of likely causes of this event? Have been researching and it appears the theories are dubious at best.
Who were the "sea people"? Why did they want to fuck up all of known civilization at the time?
How much knowledge/history was lost? Do we even know?
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proto-religion of peace and peaceful refugee happened
>who were the sea people
Minoans, Sardinians, Cycladeans and some eastern tribes.
Italic/urnfield+Anatolians/Aegeans
Were these tribes basically butt hurt at the prosperity of civilization at the time? Why did they destroy so much as opposed to conquering and ruling?
Not butthurt. More like they experienced failing crops and literally moved their entire population because they were starving.
Egyptians were the only people smart/strong enough to put them down.
The refugees in Europe will have the same effect has the sea people did in the Bronze Age.
Presumably some iteration of the following
>unprecedented levels of agriculture and trade allow huge populations to grow
>war/natural disaster happens
>agriculture and trade is disrupted
>agriculture and trade is the only thing keeping a lot of people alive
>these newly unfooded individuals engage in raiding actions and migrations in an effort to not die
>this triggers more war, which disrupts more agriculture and trade
>repeat steps 2 through 6 until most of the urban societies in the region have been starved out or killed in the fighting
Man builds shiny palaces.
Man sees shiny palaces.
Man destroys shiny palaces.
According to Blanton, elites have two major sources of power and I have a feeling in the late 2nd millennium BCE they lost both of their sources of power - the control over surplus and trade and the symbolic power. This could have been triggered by several bad years for the agriculture, or, as it is with the case of Troy, a powerful earthquake. It's also likely the supply of tin, so important in the making of bronze alloy, was disrupted, which lead to further social tensions. I don't think there's only one cause of the end of these cultures.
Here is a massive bronze age battle, presumably larger that even Troy, in bloody northern Germany
sciencemag.org
And just at the date line for the collapse.
Is this related to the bigger picture?
I think it's amazing there's a "big picture" at all. What set of circumstances could have possibly caused worldwide upheaval other than climate change? I feel as though there's no other way so much warfare and collapse could be found so far away from each other before roads or reliable forms of communication
Steppe people maybe? like the first wave ever and all the other people pushed and in the end toppled the bronze age. Just like the Huns killed the roman empire?
I was talking about this with a friend the other night in the relation to Troy. I admittedly have little knowledge/interest in the Bronze Age (above your average person nonetheless).
So what do people think is the cause of the collapse?
>Sources or gtfo
Is there any good academy-level introductory book on prehistory? Something like an overview of the various cultures etc.? I always feel left out when there's any discussion about this stuff. I normally check the required books for university courses, but in this case I've found absolutely nothing except a few books which focus on very particular geographical areas or sites. I couldn't even found any authoritative book on, say, "the bronze age" or "the iron age" etc. Amazon continues to suggest me books about Atlantis and Lemuria. Any help would be appreciated.
Warfare
bump 4 interest
It was the first great proletarian revolution.
More details? What caused warfare to such a degree it destroyed vast numbers of large cities in such a short period?
This is what I always think of, but didn't take a while for horseback riding to come into play? IIRC everybody was still using chariots at the time
Honestly the same mystery OP alludes could be attributed to the collapse of Rome. ie where the fuck did all these barbarian fuckers come from?
The other problem with the pure invasion theory is the decline of Egypt, which apparently beat back the hordes
What would help imo for all this is a decent population density map for the entire surrounding areas
does the old testament reference this in any way
It's worth pointing out that in Rome's case, the barbarbian incursions of the 5th century were actually smaller than the ones Marius repulsed in the 1st century BC,
Food will do it. Lack of the basics can drive a "civilized" people mad. They'll do anything to eat.
Humanity is only 9 missed meals away from the breakdown of civilisation
Unlikely
Considering that the first Kingdom of Israel didn't happen until 2+ centuries later and anything in the OT before that is questionable at best, no.
Remember, even the oldest writings in the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) were most likely only written around 1000 BC, and that's one of the earlier estimates iirc.
The Bronze Age Collapse would've been in the distant past for the people writing the OT, at least eight generations old by then. No one alive would even remember anyone who remembers that time. It'd be like asking someone today to describe what the French Revolution was like. And back then, as some tribal Hebrew, you couldn't just go to a library to read about it, or search the internet... the most you had was your people's history, oral or written.
That being said I'm sure there's a metaphor in there about the biblical flood actually being the sea people or something. Who knows.
Is there any actual evidence for this theory? I see it a lot, but it seems like just a theory to me. The Minoans and Cycladeans were affected by the collapse, and they don't seem to have any concrete motivation for invasion
Steppe people pushed them. Fucking chariot riding savages.
>series of islands
>within the reach of steppe hordes
Steppe people pushed the continentals to the shores, the shore people to the islands, and the islanders to the next shore. Logical, isn't it?
right but is there concrete archaeological evidence for this theory or are you just memeing about muh steppe niggers
Just memeing, but then there is signs of massive war in Germany at the exact same time, so this whatever change likely has hit the entire continent, not just the Mediterranean coast.
here's an annotated bibliography on the philistines
academia.edu
>but then there is signs of massive war in Germany at the exact same time,
No there wasn't. Nothing interesting ever happens in places that don't use brick and stone for buildings that survive to the present day.
sciencemag.org
Massive war in northern Germany, likely bigger than Troy and exactly on the same dateline.
That was a joke, user.
Can you please use brackets, I have serious autism and can't tell jokes or irony. Also I am drunk.
>mfw I want to go to bed but I also want something to get me hooked onto Bronze Age history and this is it.
>mfw no face
picked the most relevant (and general) to this thread. there are some others on the sea peoples and the philistines in particular so do take a look for yourself at the link.
Drews, Robert. The End of the Bronze Age: Changes in Warfare and the Catastrophe ca. 1200 B.C. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1993.
>A scholarly yet readable study about the period of transition between the Bronze and Iron ages. After surveying the process of the collapse and the many different explanations given for it, Drews concludes that it was changes in the technology of warfare that allowed the “barbarians” to overcome their traditional masters.
free dl:
libgen.io
Gitin, Seymour, Amihai Mazar, and Ephraim Stern, eds. Mediterranean Peoples in Transition: Thirteenth to Early Tenth Centuries BCE. Festschrift Trude Dothan. Jerusalem: Israel Exploration Society, 1998. A major collection of essays that covers a broad range of topics and geographical locations, from the Mycenaean world to Egypt and the Levant. The temporal focus is on the transitional period from the end of the Late Bronze Age until the beginning of Iron Age II (13th–9th centuries BCE).
>not getting into Bronze Age history because of meteoric iron
I really only paid attention when it involved steel.
climate change or something long those lines(ie a larger change not caused by a specific individual or group) is starting to make sense. I've heard theories that the battle at the Tollense was caused by a migration of members of the silesian culture into Lusatian territory. It sounds to me like a decrease in prosperity caused a serious of simultaneous migrations
I think the cause is definitely in reach for us to rule that as the driving factor; however I still haven't seen any guesses or theories as to my final question...
Did we lose any major knowledge or techniques during this collapse? Or is that concept not really applicable and more of a "le dark age" meme?
Meteoric iron is cool though.
For like a millennium before humans figured out how to turn Iron Oxide into just Iron, they'd melt down asteroids to make extremely valuable iron weapons for kings.
Swords from the sky.
1177 BC The Year Civilization Collapsed by Eric Cline
Sea people were just what the Egyptians called immigrants or non-egyptians. It was lots of different people.
The Greeks lost the art of writing. That's an important one.
It's impossible to know for sure if we lost anything because it was so long ago. We barely have any written sources from that period that DID survive, it's hard to believe we're not missing anything. Most of what we know is from archaeology, not examining texts.
That being said I doubt they had any "knowledge" or "techniques" that didn't survive to this day, or weren't rediscovered later. The real loss is that there's a bit of a gap in history and our account of human history is a little less complete - but we're not missing out on any practical knowledge here.
>they'd melt down asteroids t
No, they just cold or hot worked pieces, melting came much much later.
Is it wrong that I use the word "melted" when I mean "softened with heat"
Like, if I see a dab of butter, and it softens up enough for me to spread it, I say "the butter is a bit melted"
But yeah, presumably you'd be really interested in Wootz Steel, and Damascus if steel was your thing.
Seriously, what happened? After the linear scripts vanished, shit kept evolving without written record until the Phoenician alphabet was adopted and boom, here's Homer and sagas passed down through oral tradition, now written!
My interest in history started young, so I was obviously drawn to the 'bright lights' of wars and battles from 300BC on wards. My current interest and knowledge stems from that.
I plan on delving into the Bronze and Iron Ages, particularly the latter as I know somebody that owns an Iron Age era hill fort.
Archeometallurgy is indeed one of my preferred autism outlets.
>as I know somebody that owns an Iron Age era hill fort
Nigga, you can't drop something like that without elaborating.
seconded
His old as fuck house was built next to this Iron Age hill fort, and he owns the hill fort itself. He's had some work done with it by amateurs but he plans on actually getting some professionals in from a local Uni (if you can call them professionals) to see what's there. There are large stones/boulders that are flat with holes in the centre of them. I was told their name and purpose but it escapes me. Apologies for any tardness, like I said I'm a tard when it comes to iron and bronze.
Wheres that then? Sounds intradesting.
>centre
>Uni
Take a guess.
Gwynedd, Wales. He's been corresponding with Cadw (Welsh authority responsible for historical sites) about any potential research that may be taken and about public access but at the end of the day it's his hill fort.
>He's been corresponding with Cadw (Welsh authority responsible for historical sites) about any potential research that may be taken and about public access but at the end of the day it's his hill fort.
"Send archaeologists to excavate my hillfort under the GPL or I'm harrying the nearby supply lines."
Yes there is both in material cultures and in the sea peoples' names
Thanks guys.
Baseless assumption.
>tfw the authorities attempt to excavate your hillfort, violating the NAP and forcing you raid their supply lines and restore the fort to working condition yourself in order to effectively defend your property
>tfw the police try to use tear gas to smoke you out of your based hillfort but they get caught in your pitfall trap and land on deadly state-of-the-art sharpened stakes
>tfw the feds send the military to evict you from their property and collect back taxes but you declare yourself an independent primitivist feudal kingdom citing absolutely legitimate ancient documents where Charlemagne granted you the autonomous fief of this hillfort
>tfw hillfort is under siege by the military so you almost run out of food in your stockpile but you remember the hillfort grows grass on top of it so it's also a food supply
>tfw you send a bird with a message seeking aid from the Pope against the heretic militants infringing your ancient rights, but you remember you didn't actually train the bird and it's just a pigeon you caught violating your property rights by eating the worms in your hillfort's dirt
>tfw the military gives you three warnings before they issue a drone strike on the hillfort, but you stand firm because the captain has to go down with the ship
>mfw the hillfort they wanted to claim is now no more and they never got those back taxes anyway