Dadaism

Absolutely nothing.
That is art.

GOODBYE JEW!

Yes,it was totally planned.

>he doesn't "get" postmodernism

With no jokes.

Why is this art?

I saw another Dada pictures and,it is not art,it's just a bunch of newspaper clipped together that does not mean anything.

Where is the art of this?

>dadaism
>postmodernism
is this bait?

>Dada
>not a prelude to postmodernism

is THIS bait?

In the case of Dada, the art is in creating works that produce exactly this kind of bafflement in people like you

>In the case of Dada, the art is in creating works that produce exactly this kind of bafflement in people like you

AH Make sense now.A art that the ojective is based on people that don't get the message,don't get the message.

>And this shit is considered art

It's clearly compelling a response in you.

I'm going to have to disagree.

Fountain is one of the most influential pieces of art of the 20th century.

The concept of beauty and art, along with the values and ideals of post-war society, are all questioned in the Dada movement, and Fountain is no exception.

The basis of Dada is in its demand for people to reconsider their definition of beauty; while the Fountain is not so aesthetically appealing, it doesn't aim to be.

One of the first conceptual artists, Duchamp redefines the meaning of art into one that encompasses not only skills with a paintbrush or chisel but also intellectual depth. The Fountain challenges artists to make not just a pretty picture, but a statement.

Duchamp chooses an object, universally considered anything but beautiful, and presents it as exactly the opposite: a beauty, a "fountain". Essentially, he seeks to destroy all previous conceptions of beauty and urges people to reconsider its meaning. His message is that beauty, along with the rest of society's accepted values and beliefs, is not absolute; they change over a period of time and from person to person.

Fountain aims to both destroy the values of what came before it and illustrate the concept of relativism.

In our post-truth world today, this piece could not be more relevant.

No,i just want to find the answers to my questions and get the true.

>post-truth

3/10 you'll get replies

10/10 what wonderful critique thank you for your input

OH,it really made me think.(I'm not being sarcastic).

>mfw Veeky Forums made me appreciate abstract art that was meaningless to me before

But it literally is though
Everywhere on Veeky Forums you can find idiots with sources to back up any ideology under the sun. When they're refuted, we find more sources and rinse and repeat. The truth has never been more subjective

ah, so currently genociding jews is bad, but we can easily change that to considering the genocide of jews to be good because everything is subjective

Sure, if that's the example you want to go with.
The Nazis certainly agreed.

Yes.

>reductio ad absurdum

...

Seeing as this is the art philosophy thread
Is beauty objective? Are there things that simply are beautiful?

Well, Nazis did think those piles of dead bodies and civilians was doing something good.
Likewise, a person can look at piss-stained and smelly urinal and see a beautiful fountain.

Watching someone explain this to Afghan women is hilarious.

>In our post-truth world today, this piece could not be more relevant.
Couldn't agree more.

>"People took modern art very seriously when it first reached America because they believed we took ourselves very seriously. A great deal of modern art is meant to be amusing."

t. Duchamp

It was a prank

And it is funny, a urinal presented as art, signed with such a ridiculous name, merely turned on its side! What a laugh!

Dadaism is proto-PostModernism
It flew right past Modernist trends and went straight to pure PoMo nihilism

You're misconstruing his words. "It was a prank" is a hilariously narrow minded and cheap way for you to justify the fact that you're not understanding art.

underrated

Easy killer, I'm just messing around.

>muh traditional art

Can't blame me, the "it was all a joke that got out of hand" meme comes up again and again with art that requires some context and analysis to interpret

wtf i love art now

>Fountain aims to both destroy the values of what came before it and illustrate the concept of relativism.
>
>In our post-truth world today, this piece could not be more relevant

literal cultural marxism

Or just culture.

its a joke. having a bunch of rich people pay to see an exhibit where there is a urinal labeled as "fountain" is funny.

maybe hitler's interest in art led to him adopting post-modern subjective standards for both aesthetics and ethics

I don't think he was good enough at art to go that deep

>"It was a prank" is a hilariously narrow minded and cheap way for you to justify the fact that you're not understanding art.

"Art must always be understood deeply" is a hilariously narrow minded and cheap way to justify boring elitist opinions.

If he thinks that that's a good painting, then maybe he's a strict relativist after all

>I can't be bothered to think

...

how shallow

yeah that isn't deep at all what a hack

Everything doesn't have to be deep or sophisticated to have an impact.

Man, I got an art degree, I have thought a lot about this and still do. 95% of artists think this way of thinking about art is pretentious bullshit and only come up with their artists' statements after doing all the work because it's expected by galleries, because it's expected by the kinds of people who read about art all the time. The other 5% are annoying as hell, and rarely any good desu.

So what you're telling me is that 95% of undergrad art students can't be bothered to think and just want to draw pretty pictures.

the other 5% are the ones that might one day make meaningful shit like this.

>you will never be a young bohemian living in Switzerland during The Great War, skulking around the coffehouses and chainsmoking with your avant friends while you talk about redefining art

No, you do have to think about it. But once you've thought about it for a few years, it's passe as hell.

>the other 5% are the ones that might one day make meaningful shit like this.

No, they mostly just ape whichever of the high modernists they daydream about.

>MidnightinParis.jpeg

>wanting to live in any time period when the Internet did not exist.

>progress and greatness

its beautiful

if anything that has more beauty than the average drinking fountain

Why is it inherently desirable to "reconsider our definition of beauty"? What does that accomplish? How does that improve society or anybody's life?

>Why is it inherently desirable to "reconsider our definition of beauty"?

I don't know, why does society keep doing it?

I understand all of this, but my main problem with it is not Duchamp but the people carrying on his legacy
I think the death of any exercise is for it to only become a form of questioning itself
Only producing self criticism makes any growth or development only possible in how much something can critique what came before it, not what new things can be produced by an artist
Everything just becomes so relative it becomes meaningless to anybody
At least a definitive statement could be said to have made with the Fountain
It seems to become a form of laziness with newer artist who just use relativism to produce very little

Why are you such a utilitarian fuccboi?

>I think the death of any exercise is for it to only become a form of questioning itself

Works pretty well for science, law, pretty much every discipline.

good god imagine the smell

Science is testing a claim of fact that is concrete with a method that is also solid
The scientific method is not applied to question itself or the idea of science, but the claims it makes
The law is not a form of questioning the existence or its very ideals, it is a debate over applicability to cases or what the ideals the law prioritizes

Plus neither becomes a from of exclusively questioning itself, which was the point I made

I don't like the holocaust, but to deny that the Nazi's did what they though was right is blatantly absurd, that doesn't mean they weren't incorrect.

Sometimes a pot is just a pot.

It's philosophically self referential. Fountain was the first big piece to make the conceptual jump from art as a craft to art as purely an idea or concept. Any monkey can learn to draw a pretty picture. It takes something else to conceptually redefine the definition of art. Bc of dada art is whatever the artist presents as art. This convo is so boring and beaten to death. If you dont get it by now theres no hope for you. Youre just stupid or are ideologically opposed to the logical consequences of dada and pomo. If youre a traditionalist, okay fine, but if you're a liberal who doesnt get it then you are just dumb. Its a great litmus test

Denying Duchamps place in all time greatness is like denying Homer, Shakespeare, Joyce, Bach, Mozart, Elvis,The Beatles, Michaelangelo, Picasso, Warhol, Orsen Welles, or Kubrick

I remember when I was first introduced to Dadaism in Art History class back in high school in 2008. I remember thinking "fuck, this is like /b/ culture 80 years ago."

Oh shit nigger you stepped on an Adorno land mine and came to the very same conclusion the Frankfurt School has 100 years ago.

If art is defined as objects which are created with the intention of aesthetic contemplation...
can dada art really be considered art?
Isn't it just plan pictures?

What I met wrong is WW1
WW1 was so completely dissimilar to any human suffering of the past that it quite literally erased the rule book by hand one line at a time then took a shit on the rule book and lit it on fire.
So you have a bunch of Frenchmen, Austrians, lots of Italians, and Germans, who all saw the worst fighting possible in the war, get back home with a cultural shell shock or witness it in the paper: if life can be so meaningless in the trenches, then what the fuck is art? Who even cares about art when you've got men being quadruple amputated and missing their lower jaw? Where does humanity go artistically now that we've seen the worst suffering man has ever seen?
So the Dadaists decide to say fuck the rules and fuck art and fuck making sense and fuck everything, nothing matters, all of life is a joke, and our art has to emulate that joke, that absurdism, if humans can do this shit to each other than the only option is to laugh at everything that people hold dear, to acknowledge through art that life and art and culture and music are just a joke when put into the dehumanizing industrial slaughter of the Isonzo or the trenches of the Somme. Dada is an artistic realization that life in industrial times is a joke played on each of us. It's very Kafkaesque, nothing makes sense and everything is horrible for no real discernible reason; however,instead of turning to despair like Kafka, a contemporary, did, the Dadaists take a look at the absurd struggle of the modern, industrial man, and cackle like a maniac at the horrific picture they're shown. Where most at the time chose that the only way to face the abyss was with tears or rage or hope for something better, the Dadaists chose to laugh like maniacs at it.
That isn't to say that it's post-modern; it has no traces of irony in it. Dads is not at all ironic. It is humorous and lighthearted and not meant to be taken super seriously, but not ironic

wtf i love dada now

If this isn't bait than this is the most Reddit tier thing I've ever seen.

>Dadaism
>Not hands down one of the greatest artistic movements in human history
Go back to wanking over your Venus sculptures. Pleb filth.

>cultural marxism

There's literally nothing to get, retards.

Duchamp himself never cared if his work was destroyed. It was simply a rejection of the standards of art. That's all.

Both pretentious Veeky Forumstards and /POL/tards are wrong.

>le strawman face

people still don't understand that art doesn't mean ornament

smdh