>Libertarian uses the Soviet Union as an example of the failures of Communism >Communist tells them it wasn't real Communism >They never accept this
>Someone uses the 2008 crisis of an example of the failures of Capitalism >Libertarian just says it wasn't real Capitalism
How can you take these people seriously?
Lincoln Myers
People who think that the USSR calling itself communist must also think that the People's Republic of North Korea is just like the USA. They're both republics after all.
Joshua Gray
>((/leftypol/)) uses Veeky Forums as an example of successful infiltration >Veeky Forums tells them to fuck off >They never accept this
How can you take these people seriously?
Christian Edwards
>its another butthurt commie retard episode
Gabriel Myers
The number of posts redirecting people to /pol/ I've seen on Veeky Forums far outnumbers the amount of posts telling people to fuck off back to Leftypol.
Gabriel Jones
fuck off back to Leftypol and don't let the door hit you on the way back.
Christopher Jackson
U mad comrade?
Gavin Gonzalez
Hardly an argument, since /pol/ is a containment board that no one likes anywhere.
Benjamin Taylor
And we keep saying post-1934 Germany wasn't real National-Socialism, but I don't see any leftyfags accepting this.
Landon Green
How exactly it wasn't real?
Christian Sanders
Who likes Leftypol?
Carson Adams
When my ex gf broke up with me because I was a loser with no job I tried to tell we that I was not my real me (TM) but she didn't accept it and still broke up with me... :~(
Ethan Collins
I didn't even know it existed before today.
Samuel Allen
Didn't achieve a 1000 year Reich, the domination or extermination of all untermenschen and plenty of lebensraum for the Aryan overlords.
Nicholas Mitchell
I mean why are women so intellectually dishonest Veeky Forums? Don't they know that the real something is that which we imagine and not what it is in real life? Don't they understand dialectics??
Bentley Hughes
Kek
Ryan Nelson
> a 1000 year Reich > domination or extermination > lebensraum for the Aryan overlords All of that was metaphorical.
Lincoln Hill
Bad analogy. You were describing the loser as "not the real me" in an attempt to convince her to stay with you, when in reality she would be staying with a loser.
Communists point out the USSR is "not real communism" in an attempt to steer away from any state ever resembling the USSR again. In this scenario, the loser is disgraced as an absolutely horrendous boyfriend and the girl is encouraged to get as far away from him as possible.
Ayden Collins
so you're saying it failed :^)
Aaron Price
...
Connor Stewart
>the soviet union wasn't communist That is objectively correct.
>the 2008 crisis wasn't caused by capitalism Would be true if the crisis was provoked by the state as austrians claim, so there's nothing wrong with the argument itself, but rather with the analysis that precedes it.
Jayden Morgan
So to make it a personable example again, it's like when your parents say "I have no son" When you're right there.
Justin Roberts
Also the suppositions underlying it, that being that the state-non-state divide actually matters for capitalism.
Brody Bennett
No actually, I am aware of the fact that the USSR was an attempt to establish communism. It's more like kicking your 23 year old son, who's addicted to drugs and had to be bailed out of jail for theft, out of your house on to the streets, pointing at him and saying to your younger child, "See him? Don't be like him. Don't be like your brother."
That is, just because the older brother may have attempted to have a happy life, and he claims he does have one, doesn't change the fact that he'll probably commit suicide by overdosing next week. That doesn't mean the younger child can't make it.
Brody Gonzalez
>No actually, I am aware of the fact that the USSR was an attempt to establish communism. It's more like kicking your 23 year old son, who's addicted to drugs and had to be bailed out of jail for theft, out of your house on to the streets, pointing at him and saying to your younger child, "See him? Don't be like him. Don't be like your brother." But that's exactly what I mean. In such a situation, parents will sometimes refused to acknowledge the child at all, for exactly that reason.
Cameron Ross
Yeah, but as I said, communists don't do that. The USSR was an attempt to establish communism. It failed. The fact that in other cases people refuse to acknowledge such facts is not relevant because in this case, we are acknowledging the facts.
Hudson Hughes
>Yeah, but as I said, communists don't do that. The USSR was an attempt to establish communism. It failed. Honestly, it seems like a pretty blatant attempt by the emergent middle class to accelerate the growth of capitalism in the Russian Empire, TBQH Famalam.
Noah Thomas
Sure, afterwards people took advantage of the chaotic political landscape to take power, leading to a totalitarian state with little regard for worker's ownership or control of the means of production. But the revolution was a communist one. And yes, the USSR went to great lengths to suppress any worker control of the means of production, shutting down various soviets, >Kronstadt and >Free Territory, decidedly anti-communist actions. But the revolution was communist. The seizing of power by bourgeois in the aftermath is evidence of it's failure.
Andrew Martin
Because it's a poor attempt at a false equivalence, the board is on a completely different website and isn't even as large as the site's /pol/ board.
Chase Anderson
> NEVER BEEN TRIED
Did modern commies ever read the Communist Manifesto or Capital? All the key properties of communism (public owns means of producion, no classes, no private property, free education and healthcare) were achieved in soviet union, so why should not it be the real communism?
Anthony Flores
>confusing corporatism for capitalism
Henry Perez
>2008 recession on the same level as the collapse of the CCCP
pls communism is retarded
Hudson Collins
>confusing state capitalism for communism Fuck off it goes both ways. That's the point of what OP is saying.
Nathan Bell
>public owns means of production, no classes, no private property, free education and healthcare >soviet union
Matthew Adams
>Libertarian uses the Soviet Union as an example of the failures of Communism >Communist tells them it wasn't real Communism >They never accept this
Do people not notice that the opposite of this proposition is and always has been logically invalid? You point to something you think is bad, call it Communism, and then through equivocation declare since X thing is bad and is labeled Communism all socialist theory ever is invalid. That's childish reasoning.
It's like me saying the Spanish Inquisition was bad, therefore Christianity or Catholicism is bad. Even as a militant atheist and I can acknowledge that this is not truly a real argument that works. It can point to something negative worth noting, but it can not ever be a complete refutation. To truly defeat Christianity you have to attack it on its own level by theologically debating the actual Christian doctrine in the bible point by point and win logically in saying it's wrong (actually really hard to do). You can't just smear it and pretend you won - unless you're an idiot that doesn't know how to seriously reason.
It's seems the reason people get so buttdevastated by socialists that actually know some of their shit correctly and logically pointing out that the USSR was in fact "not real Communism" is that that claim short-circuits the above negative association smear "reasoning". How can you dismiss scary complex thoughts through negative labeling if the commies won't even let you get away with your labels?
But it would never be a good argument even if the commies did say "you know what, the USSR was Communism". It's just propagandist rhetoric.
Wyatt White
>public owns means of producion >no classes >no private property Are you retarded?
Jason Phillips
>Metaphysic concentration camps
Jayden Edwards
Grab them by the pussy
Aaron Collins
The camps and concentration were physical, the means to not die were more abstract.
Levi Thomas
neoliberalism is the furthest fucking thing from corporatism tho
corporatism has nothing to do with corporations
Jaxon Carter
But it matters for communism as well. It's the difference between owning the means of production and "owning" the means of production but you can only do with it what so bureaucrat hundreds of miles away tells you to do with it. Which isn't ownership at all.
Owen White
What genuinely socialist action happened happened was all over by the time the USSR was formed, in 1922.
Juan Hill
>But it matters for communism as well. No it doesn't. Attempts to change around fundamental material relations by applying ideological labels doesn't change fundamental material relations. If you don't have functional control over something, you don't own something.
Jaxson Jackson
No one goes on leftypol, i haven't heard about it before Veeky Forums, and it's on a different website. Prior to that i've only seen the tumblr crowd.
Kayden Rogers
>the tumblr crowd Truly the worst among us all, can we agree on that?
William Clark
>implying there's an appreciable difference between /pol/ and tumblr
Matthew Ross
...
Carter Murphy
#triggered
Jaxon James
>this is what leftypol SJWs actually believes Lets see >leftypol supports soros >leftypol supports uncontrolled non white """immigration""" by """refugees""" >leftypol worships black supremacism >leftypol supports BLM >leftypol members donated to BLM >leftypol believes that white homogeneity is the supporting pillars of "traditional values" thus needs to be destroyed to bring about their "revolution" >leftypol supports the """"migrants"""" Leftypol is SJW as they come
Jeremiah Stewart
>only SJWs could find the histrionic idiocy of /pol/ unlikeable
Yeah, how could anyone else hate a group of vociferous shitposters?
Aaron Myers
>implying /pol/ aren't social justice warriors >support group justice over individual justice >support authoritarian social policies to ensure this group justice >obsessed with identity politics >insist that social norms should conform to what their hugbox thinks is normal >rage out at any dissenting opinion >never, ever shut up about their political beliefs
Chase Wood
Do tankies count as leftypol? They're both shit, however i'll take my holocaust denying brethren over people who tell me i'm white and therefor privileged despite living in a post commie country, any day.
Joshua Murphy
Not an argument. If not to mention that the whole "class struggle" is bullshit, USSR did have no classes. Proletariat lived in cities, kulaks and bourgeoisie were destroyed by collectivization and nationalization and nomenklatura was technically a part of proletariat.
All the production was owned and controlled by state, hence by public, since there is no other way the public can control anything on a large scale if not via the state.
And of course there was no private propertity in CCCP, if you exlude the brief period of Lenin's NEP. Man, you couldn't even own a house in soviet union.
Also, neither Marx and Engels nor any other left thinker afterwards didn't really say anything about how exactly communism would work. They basicly just went "dude muh expoitation, capitalism will fall bc it is inevitable all will be good in communism". So, there is no fine measurement what is "real" and what is "not real" communism.
Wyatt Long
>the SJW can't even greentext properly fuck off back to your hugbox, leftypol
Jaxon Carter
Who are you quoting?
Henry Ortiz
Sorry, did I use the wrong pronouns?
Matthew Ross
He was right. /pol/ are race justice warrior with the different flavor but the same core believes.
Elijah Gomez
>the SJW is triggerd about pronouns HAHAAHHAHA
Lucas Barnes
well put
Juan Turner
>being pro white is wrong >being pro black is ok though """"centrists""""
Caleb Kelly
>samefagging
Charles Carter
is that the message you get from such posts
Benjamin Rogers
He's a /pol/ack so he conflates anything that is against his own positions with being anti-white and pro-black.
Dylan Roberts
>the only people who dislike me are racist/sexist/homophobic >the only people who dislike me are tumblr/reddit/leftiepol
Weird, I can't see the difference either.
Angel Davis
Arent most political systems names like communism just kinda false though? Like North Korea calls itself communist but whether you agree communism is a good idea or bad its obvious its just not communism. I think the people who exist to perpetuate the system of government call it something slightly fitting but that is exaggerated and positive, and people against it exaggerate its negativity with the use of names.
David Howard
Communism can never work even when someone has 100% control to make it work which is what you need it has always been impossible. Where are these shining communist paradises? It has been tried a ton of times. There is a reason even pseudo communist countries are just capitalist lite.
Ian Walker
You avoid both memes and become a radical centrist
Kayden Reed
>a radical centrist No - is meme.
Hudson Adams
Where are shining capitalist paradises? America isn't capitalist btw
Jace Cruz
>implying the discussion is about capitalism
This is about communism being undefendable not other systems having faults.
Cooper Wilson
Capitalism never offers paradise lul, and if you are talking about anarcho-capitalism you can't be serious
Michael Carter
jesus christ is this board being invaded by Veeky Forums newfags these petty argument threads that usually only stayed on that board are becoming more and more common here
Brandon Peterson
oh thank god I'm actually still on Veeky Forums
you guys are all mongoloids
Hunter Thompson
>Crysis caused by central banking, state interventionism and bailouts >Fault of capitalism
Jaxson Hernandez
State intervention and bailouts came about after the crisis had already started.
Leo Parker
>implying /pol/ isn't the one infiltrating Veeky Forums
Cameron Martin
Or a democracy. Just because the DPRK calls itself Democratic doesn't mean it's democratic.
Brayden Peterson
Admit it. You've never even been to Leftypol have you?
Joshua Carter
>9 hours 45 minutes what the fuck dude
Aaron Harris
>All the production was owned and controlled by state, hence by public >neither Marx and Engels nor any other left thinker afterwards didn't really say anything about how exactly communism would work Yeah, you are retarded.
Evan Peterson
>There are people who don't watch the threads they post in
Evan Reyes
>he watches for 9 hours without saying anything sage, just let it die
John Watson
Do you think watching means I was actually sitting here physically watching it for 9 hours? Nigga how new are you?
Xavier Lee
Yes i have, their everything I said they were
Asher King
/leftypol/ doesn't even think race exists. You know the spook meme, right? That's /leftypol/
Jason Stewart
then why do they hate white people so much
Adam Brown
Mhm
Jaxon Harris
>leftypol ONLY attacking white supremacy thanks for proving my point you SJW faggot
Ryder Howard
Man you're terrible at this
Gavin Morgan
Why do you leftypol faggots hate white people so much?
Levi Scott
They don't. You might see more threads hating on a person that is "white" than someone who is "black" because "whites" traditionally have far more power. Go look at a list of all the wealthiest nations in the world; the more wealthy they are, the more likely they are "white" by some strange, ambiguous definition of "race"
White supremacy is far more relevant, widespread, and more powerful.
We don't
Elijah Ross
>we don't hate white people >but we do think "white privilege" exists and we must attack white people who are proud of being white make up your mind SJW
Nolan Sanchez
I never said that. I said >"whites" traditionally have far more power Going by the commonly accepted definition of "white"
I didn't say that was bad either. The reason /leftypol/ criticizes these people is because they are powerful capitalists. It has nothing to do with their "race"; it just so happens that most of them are "white".
Jordan Myers
that is completely wrong, there's a reason why leftypol supports Bernie sanders, BLM, Soros, and the "refugees"
Jonathan Cruz
You know Sanders is [REDACTED] now because he supported Hillary, right? /leftypol/ hates his guts. Also, Soros is a capitalist and /leftypol/ is largely anti-Islamic
Dominic Turner
>Soros is a capitalist and /leftypol/ is largely anti-Islamic keep telling yourself that
Michael Gray
>leftypol supports soros Shit like this boggles my mind. How the fuck could a self proclaimed socialist support neoliberal capitalist causes like Soros and the EU? Don't they understand how badly they are fucking over the workers?
Dylan Ramirez
>he's porky >he just said something that was common sense >still going to gulag not seeing this support you're talking about. Also, supporting one thing a person said != supporting that person.
Ryan Long
>>he's porky Then why do you support him >>he just said something that was common sense mass non white immigration is "common sense" now? >>still going to gulag you SJWs support better treatment for colluders