Well? What's so special about Jesus suffering when everybody suffers?

>>Religious nuts believe this.

Top KEK

I don't think it's ever been said about Jesus that he suffered more than anyone else. It was brutal, sure, but the main point is that God, for humanity, became incarnate and allowed himself to suffer and die.

I am not religious.

But in Christianity what sets Jesus apart is his forgiveness of all sin and taking them all upon himself.

Pain and suffering itself is not quantifiable in the way John Stuart Mill describes it to be.

I like your post. Is there a good book on this subject?

The Bible, I imagine.

We deserve to suffer and go to hell. Jesus is the only man ever to not deserve it.

Inb4 slave morality

I mean, for this : "Suffering is not quantifiable.

You can say suffering for ten years is greater than suffering for three days, but the brother of suffering is infinity, for all suffering as experience along with pain seems endless at the time it is inflicted."

1. Your dad isn't God
2. He suffered and died for your sins. You Dior not.

While it is true that Jesus suffered much more that most of people, there are people who suffered even more. How many criminals were crucified in roman empire alone and how many of them lived a harder life than Jesus? Don't forget that Jesus ignored the hardest past of a suffer. He choose to ignore death and that isn't a choice that any other person could realistically made in his situation. Another point is that suffering of the one man can't equal to pain of the entire humanity. Did Jesus suffered more than all people who died in World War II? No person is able to even suffer that much. Divine being, or not.

So... Why Jesus can die for my sins and my dad can't? Is it because Jesus is God and he can just cancel our sins? Than suffering was pointless, as he just used his divine god powers achieve result. Did I miss something?

>if according to the NT bible, God if infinitely loving and merciful, forgiving all of those sins seems all the more painful.

>forgiving someone breaking laws set by yourself is painful
>even more so if you are infinitely merciful

I do not get it.

>as he just used his divine god powers achieve result.

Why would God break his own laws?

How using his divine powers is breaking the law? It wasn't first and only miracle that was done by God and it isn't some kind of a sin to erase people sins.

Yes, you missed the entire gospel.

Jesus did not cancel your sins, he took them upon himself. He who knew no sin became sin. The Spirit fled; the Father turned his back; the Son was forsaken.

The Son bore the wrath of the Father for all of the sins committed by mankind. And survived.

Then the Son died, paying the ultimate death penalty for all of mankind's sins, in full.

God's holiness, justice and righteousness thus satisfied, out of his grace and mercy he offered mankind a new covenant with all who believe in Jesus: eternal life with him, and the recovery of the Holy Spirit of life within our bodies.

Jesus' physical suffering was not nothing, but compared to the psychic and emotional and spiritual suffering, it was literally more than the collective suffering of all mankind combined.

He suffered more than you ever could, because as God he has an infinite capacity to suffer, whereas you would go into shock and die.

Jesus was already God, in heaven. He did not have to manifest in the flesh to save us. He did not have to leave home to die for you. That he did is testament to how much he loves you; that he would rather die than live without you. So he did.

>my dad can't?

Your dad cannot pay for his own sins, as he is a sinner and cannot be a pure sacrifice.

Jesus was the pure sacrifice, the sinless man, the Son of God, uniquely positioned to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the earth.

Without Jesus, every human being since Adam and Eve would just live their lives and go to hell for an eternity. With Jesus, we have hope.

Let me get this straight

>>god creates garden of eden
>>creates adam and eve
>>creates the snake who offers the apple of sin to adam
>>adam and eve sin EVEN though it was god who set all this up
>>fast forward
>>god sends jesus (who is basically an extension of god) to earth
>>jesus dies to supposedly show us he loves us despite our sins

Why didnt god just have jesus die when adam ate the apple? He could have prevented all of this nonsense before it got too big

>>Christianity everyone

If Jesus had sacrificed himself for Adam, Eve and Abel, Jesus would have created the universe to have two brothers and a sister.

As it is, Jesus will have a billion or more brothers and sisters.

While your timeline is technically correct, the absolutely beautiful head of the angels turned himself into the devil, an enchanter/serpent, and mankind, also created "good" to God's standards and immortal, ruined their nature by sinning and becoming mortal and spiritually dead.

God is cleaning up the mess men and angels made. You can choose to be cleaned up, or you can choose to have nothing to do with God. Either way, he's already made eternal provisions for you and will honor your choice.

>Christianity everyone

Yes. The knowledge that Jesus is God, paid the sin debt of humanity, and rose from the dead.

That is Christianity.

Books.
Go to your local library and pick out some books from their philosophy section. After a few years of doing this you will be well read.

If you believe in Jesus, you are believing in an idol god.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Youre just making things up to suite your agenda.

The words "an idol" do not belong in that sentence.

>Jesus was already God, in heaven
That sounds awfully close to monophysite heresy.

No, I'm not Paul the Apostle.

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus created the universe.

Jesus is God.

That is not close to any "heresy" that exists in Christendom.

1 John 4

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

If you deny Jesus came down from heaven in the flesh, you operate under the spirit of antichrist.

Jesus was as fully man as though not God, and as fully God as though not man. He is the Son of Man, and the Son of God. He exists as a hypostatic union within the trinity.

>Is that guy being whipped and than crucified?
Jesus died at 30, I'd say going through the living hell that is middle/old age combines to be a worse experience.

>Jesus is God.
No, thats saying jesus has one wholly divine nature.
>Jesus was as fully man as though not God, and as fully God as though not man
This is fine.

"my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

What did God mean by this?

The difference between you and Jesus is that Jesus is eternal and came down from heaven to manifest in the flesh, and become the Son of Man via Mary's birth canal.

You literally did not exist until your dad's sperm penetrated your mom's egg.

Other than that, Jesus was as human as you are; tempted at all points as you are; suffered all things as you do; and yet did not sin. Ever. Did not break any of God's laws, even once. Not ever.

To do that, he also had to be the Son of God, as he had to not inherit any sin from his father, God. And he could not be Joseph's heir and take the throne, because Joseph descended from Jeconiah, and his line was cursed to never take the throne.

The more you look into the things of the bible, the more you see. The more there is. Until you realize it's infinite.

I explained above. When Jesus became sin by taking your sins onto himself, the Holy Spirit fled him, the Father turned his back on him, the sun went dark and the earth quaked.

When Jesus' work was finished on the cross, by him saying "it is finished" or more accurately "paid in full", he committed his spirit into his father's hands. Father again, not God.

And because Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to heaven, we know his sacrifice was accepted by the father as propitiation for the sins of mankind.

So Jesus didn't have faith that God was on his side when he took the sins?

>special about Jesus suffering
Because it gives all suffering meaning

I will die soon but it seems like you cannot help me

How is Jesus' death a "sacrifice" when, all things considered, there was no sacrifice? He knew he would be resurrected, and that his death would be nullified. So already, his death has no real emotional weight. When humans die, they don't come back. But Jesus did, and it really makes his death on the cross feel cheap.

Also, I'm sure that - considering Jesus died on the very same day he was crucified - his death was not particularly painful, especially when compared to the number of humans who have undergone grisly and painfully torturous ways of dying.

Ironically, I'm sure your average heretic being "interrogated" by the Inquisition went through much more physical pain than Jesus.

The night before, Jesus begged for another way, for this cup to pass him by. There was no other way. So Jesus was faithful to the father, even unto death, even the cursed death on the cross.

The Son and Father made a covenant before the creation of the universe, if you can talk about a "before" in a timeless arena. The Son told the Father he would die for humanity if the Father would forgive us, and the Father said he would forgive humanity if the Son died for us.

And God never breaks his covenants.

That didn't stop Jesus from sweating blood the night before though, knowing what was about to happen. And yet he went as the Lamb of God to the slaughter, and performed flawlessly, as usual.

Because he is God.

Why didnt jesus choose to show up now? When there are even more sins to be absolved? Why choose a time when NO ONE could accurately keep records and things can be misinterpreted and skewed to fit an agenda? The agenda being Christianity?

The more you believe in the bible, you more tunnel visioned you become, until you realize the abyss is infinite.

With suffering comes perseverance, with perseverance comes character, and with character comes hope, and that hope is Christ Jesus.

Do not die before you meet with Jesus, and reconcile yourself to him.

The Hebrews kept meticulous records and one of their prophets (whom they disdain) named Daniel gave the exact date the Messiah would appear in Jerusalem. That date was Palm Sunday, Nisan 10, 32 AD.

Without the Hebrews receiving the oracles of God, nobody would be looking for a messiah, nobody would be able to identify the messiah, and nobody would know they needed a messiah.

Jesus never rushes anywhere. He's never running. He's never catching up, or altering his plans.

He just walks through them.

Because if wasn't, Christians would have to admit that their movement was a failure based on lies, proved by the fact that the Apocalypse didn't happen, and probably never will

This post has convinced me you are just a delusional religious nut.
Thanks.

So yes, Jesus basically doubted the whole plan (Which he knew about beforehand) because being nailed to a cross was suddenly too hardcore? Sounds pretty human to me.

According to my primary school teacher, when Jesus died on the cross he went to hell and suffered in the place of all future sinners who repented. No idea how correct she was.

It will happen 7 years after the rapture, which has not happened, and 3 1/2 years after the antichrist causes the abomination in the Holy of Holies in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

The things of God do not make sense to the children of satan.

Indeed. He cherished the title "Son of Man".

She was absolutely incorrect.

The afterlife has two compartments, Paradise and Torment. Paradise is also called the Bosom of Abraham. That's where all of the righteous people who died before Jesus were staying, as their savior had not yet arrived.

When Jesus rose from the dead, he took those people out of Paradise and into heaven. Paradise is empty. Torment, the hot side of the afterlife, is full of people awaiting trial prior to being cast into the lake of fire.

Because none of them, and none of you, on trial for your life, will be able to prove to God that you are as he is.

And standing condemned for not believing in Jesus won't change the outcome.

You want nothing to do with God, ever? He's got a place for that, and will accommodate you.

Didn't Catholics account for this problem with Limbo?

Where righteous pagan people go until the day of judgement?

I do not know if there is any scriptural basis for that though.

>forgiving someone breaking laws set by yourself is painful
>even more so if you are infinitely merciful

The main point of the New Testament is this:

Imagine an all powerful,omnipotent, infinite, all benevolent creator God.

God gives a covenant to the Jews to follow his laws.

God then is born into the earth, to take up all of the sins of mankind, thus forming a new covenant, with everyone not just Jews.

Now imagine that God feeling pain, not just physical pain, but the pain of all sins committed at all times by everyone.

For the God of the New Testament who is a God of infinite mercy and love, this essentially as splitting himself. This God feeling the infinite despair mankind has felt and will feel and takes it upon himself to forgive it. God himself has to die for humans to be free, that is for humans to chose sin and evil or to chose the repentance and love Jesus taught them.

I think this is the beautiful message of christianity, it is so humanly universal, that every time we sin God himself suffers with us, and at the same time so sublime in thinking the beautiful and true as this loving God.

He didn't doubt it, but he was understandably not all that enthusiastic about the whole thing.

>God makes everything
>Makes sin
>Makes it so humans can sin
>Has to self-flagellate to forgive humans for sinning which it invented and it gave to humans

Literally what? Explain.

There are many catholic lies. Believe none of them.

There are none good but God, so there are no "righteous pagans" unless they believe in God, and God has imputed righteousness to them.

God did not make sin. Sin is "missing the mark" of being like God, the same way an archer "misses the mark" by completely and utterly failing to hit the target at all.

Sin is not a created thing; evil is not a created thing. They are failures, and shortcomings, and twisted and perverted good things.

God never caused anyone to sin.

As Borges rightfully claimed, Judas was the actual son of God made to suffer by being damned to hell while Jesus was just a man God was in communication with.

Jesus' suffering on the cross was the moment of damnation for Judas.

>Borges

Never heard of him. Still know he's an idiot.

Borges was a philo-semitic zionist weirdo who wrote half-baked sci-fi stories.

It solves most problems of the trinity and the nature of the sacrifice.

>mocking someone who got fucking crucified
the west sinks to a new low

God made people that are capable of "missing the mark". God is omniscient and knew that people would "miss the mark". God could have created humans not capable of "missing the mark" or just humans that could in some possible world but never do in the actual one.
>God never cause anyone to sin
doesn't follow

This. To be eternally condemned by humanity is a worse fate than to be crucified. To redeem humanity the son of god would have to chose the worst fate.

Not if it includes "Judas" in any way, shape or form it doesn't.

God made people to house the Holy Spirit, and they did.

He gave them free access to as much of anything that they wanted in the entire world, and forbid them from only one thing.

They did not start out as sinners, no. The disbelieved God, believed the devil, ate the fruit, spiritually died, later physically died, and all of their children were stillborn.

While it is true God knows the end from the beginning, you're not even scratching the surface of why this universe was created.

There are three sources of sin.

1. This fallen and evil world we live in;
2. Our own flesh; and
3. The devil and his demons.

God is not on that list.

We sin in God's permissive will, that we might come to know him and choose to love him and be adopted by him into his family, but that is not God's express will that we sin. We are fortunate in that where sin abounds, grace abounds even more.

>The curious inversion of mainstream Christian concepts of redemption in the latter story is characteristic of Borges's approach to theology in his literature.

I think I'll pass.

>Argentinian fantasy writer.

Pass.

This christposting fad really needs to die.

Billions of people are in hell, not just Judas.

And none of them will be remembered.

Yea

Jesus is a clever way to make you feel guilty for your sins. You see, a man died. A man fucking DIED. Because YOU sin. He not only died, he was tortured first. And he wouldn't have done that if you'd kept your sodomite dick out of someone's sodomite ass! So, feel guilty for the rest of your fucking life OR disavow your religion and face our stone-age consequences for heresy!

Jesus is fucking handy!

But Judas will, in the worst possible way. That is His sacrifice.

You are one triggered faggot.

Then he didn't really accomplish anything.

Then, I've got to ask, how can you say that billions are there? You literally claimed that hell has no census, yet you're quoting statistics like Al Gore. You can't have it both ways, Christian.

He accomplished exactly what He wanted: to save us.

...

If he's just in hell, who did he set free. He didn't conquer death or damnation.

From... what? Monsanto? The Military Industrial Complex? Oh, no I've got it - drones! He saved us from drones!

Well, Mission Accomplished motherfucker! lol

He did conquer damnation, as he is damned by humanity for eternity. That is his sacrifice. To limit the sacrifice to the agony of one afternoon on the cross is blasphemous.

I would like to start an exhibition on just what "God's permissive will" is

I would like to showcase the terrible depths of sin's abundance, and thereby showcase that even-more-abundant grace which permits it.

Each image in the series can be accompanied with the simple caption,"And God was cool with this, too."

Let's start here.

This is such a fucking useless post. Why is there zero moderation?

>heathens getting punished terribly for visiting horrific crimes onto Christians

not seeing a problem here

"And God was cool with it"

>damnation, as he is damned

"And God was cool with it"

youtube.com/watch?v=ffBEdy9pvUE

Nah, he just hung himself, rotted, and tumbled dead down an incline, his guts splattering on the ground, to be buried in the same potter's field the pharisees purchased with the money Judas tried to return to them.

Nobody in a pitch black lake of fire cares who you are when they bump into you, or you into them. It's just all weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, screaming endlessly throughout eternity that you neglected the only hope for mankind, belief in the risen Christ Jesus.

Because Jesus said narrow is the path that leads to life, and few find it; many are on the broad road that leads to destruction.

There are over 7 billion people alive now, and likely 7 billion before that, so taking "most" out of that number is easily billions.

"And God was cool with it"

And how is that not the perfect sacrifice? God became a man completely, a man to the point of infamy, a man to the point of being reprehensible - all the way to the abyss. In order to save us, He could have chosen any of the destinies which together weave the uncertain web of history; He could have been Alexander, or Pythagoras, or Rurik, or Jesus; He chose an infamous destiny: He was Judas.

Yes, you would include within that exhibit every single sin mankind has ever committed, every atrocity, every murder, every adultery, every rape, every infanticide. All of those sins would be in your museum, which would have to be as large as the planet.

And Jesus took every single one of those sins onto himself; he experienced every single one of those atrocities himself, and then bore the wrath of God upon them all, and survived.

This world will bear the brunt of the wrath of God in the coming years, and it will not survive.

Jesus surviving on the cross is yet another divine miracle proving he is God.

Bruh, in Christian theology, animals are there for the sole purpose of serving man.

They don't have souls.

Nah. Judas is the son of perdition, possessed by satan himself, who betrayed the Son of God to men for money. Judas was a liar, and a thief, and a murderer who was never saved, and even though Judas witnessed Jesus' ministry, never believed Jesus was God.

Just rabbi, teacher.