Can someone explain to a Europoor why there are people who sympathise with the Confederate States? I can't really find any reason to see them as the good guys and their cause respectable.
>Southern states were slave owners >want to expand slavers to newly acquired territories >some even wanted to re-open the Atlantic slave trade >they got slavery forced on Kansas, even though the majority there didn't support it. states' rights amirite? >get anti-slavery guy democratically elected as president of the USA >refuse to accept the results of a fair election and try to leave even though Lincoln wasn't even inaugurated yet >get defeated >Northern victory turns the USA into more like a single nation as opposed to a federation and soon, into a great power >meanwhile, Confederate veterans form the KKK, one of the most hated organizations in the US and push for shit like the poll tax and segregation.
Even I were a racist I would see no reason to respect them. They just hastened black emancipation. Lincoln wasn't even that radical on this issue, he probably would have agreed to some compromises if the South didn't sperg out before he even did anything. He was also against black suffrage and blacks probably wouldn't have got the vote if a Confederate supporter didn't kill him, eventually getting Grant elected president.
Dixie nationalists who think the south would be better off as a sovereign nation and don't care about slavery.
Misguided white nationalists that think importing black labor while postponing industrialization is some how desirable to them just because it sucks for blacks.
It's the retarded type of racist fanboys who think the CSA was some kind of an Arcadian white utopia or a Hitleresque nation, not realizing it was a poor shithole full of blacks and ruled by literal nigger lovers.
And I mean, I'm genuinely racist / race realist myself and I too was once infatuated with the romanticized view of the CSA, but upon actually learning shit I found out that:
>it was ruled by a bunch of corrupt idiots who roleplayed as feudal lords >many slave owners genuinely saw their slaves as their extended family and treated them like their damn kids >cuckoldry and racemixing was beyond rampant, which is why the average American nigger is 20% white on average and why the "white" southerners carry the most black genes out of all white Americans >it contained counties that were 80% black where black slaves were commanded by black overseers and with no white person around them to keep them in check they often went on crime sprees against whites >societies like the Knights of the Golden Circle and even Jefferson Davis himself legitimately thought places like Haiti, Cuba, Santo Domingo and even half of Mexico should be annexed to boost slave population, which would effectively make the country like 80% non-white (Rhodesia, anyone?) >many southern aristocrats, especially the landed planters around New Orleans and Charleston, genuinely wanted to re-establish the Atlantic slave trade routes which means niggers, niggers, niggers and more niggers >most rural yeoman whites especially in the upland south (Kentucky, Virginia outside of the tobacco belt, Missouri etc) fucking loathed slavery because it prevented progress and kept them poor as fuck by devaluing labor costs, West Virginia broke away and joined the Union precisely because of this >the Secretary of State was a literal Jew and many slave owners for that matter were Jews
All in all the CSA was so anti-white it makes Merkel and Hillary look like white nationalists.
Colton Flores
My autism is making me add that I know this is not an actual song of the civil war period but I still think of it as the theme of the event.
Kayden Bell
>Wasnt fought entirely about slavery >Slavery was a central issue, but the political and sometimes cultural divide between the North and South was the issue, which had heated up several times not only over slavery, but also other issues in the early 19th century. >"Refuse to accept the results of a fair election"
Lincoln wasn't actually even on ballots in many Southern areas and the South voted massively for the democrats. Lincoln won in the North because the democratic party had two seperate candidates and he had the most votes after the democratic party basically committed suicide.
">Northern victory turns the USA into more like a single nation as opposed to a federation"
Maybe this is why people support the south, because they want state's rights.
"Lincoln wasn't even that radical on this issue, he probably would have agreed to some compromises if the South didn't sperg out before he even did anything."
He actually tried to keep the South within the Union by promising to entrench slavery within the constitution, but that failed.
#NOT ALL southerners were slave owners, believe it or not. Only a small minority of landed gentry actually owned slaves on plantations. A certain portion of wealthy urbanites had house slaves, and a minority of slaves were 'employed' in cottage industries, blacksmithing, carpentry, barrel-making, stables, and stuff like that. The latter two varieties tended to be treated relatively well.
Of course, the industry and wealth of the southern states (and the northern, to an appreciable extent) depended on slavery-based resource industries (cotton, sugar, tobacco).
Referring back to northern states, where do you think cotton was processed into clothing and shipped from? Ditto for sugar and tobacco. Which cities banks do you think funded slavery and slaving ships? That's right, northern cities, especially New York.
Lincoln was also less anti-slavery than is popularly imagined.
As for the (modern) Confederate flag, for some people it really is just about southern pride, and not specifically racist ideals. Of course, for others it IS a crypto-racist symbol, thought they probably don't view it that way.
Not even American, btw.
Nathan Torres
Cause identity.
Nicholas Lee
>Lincoln wasn't actually even on ballots in many Southern areas That is entirely the fault of the local governments in that area.
He was still anti-slavery, just not a radical abolitionist.
He once wrote that slavery is the serpent in bed with the child, if you strike the snake the snake may bite the child or you may indeed strike the child yourself.
Later on though he got redpilled by Fredrick Douglass.
Camden Howard
They were the underdogs. They never really had a chance since day 1. So obviously there are some people that root for them.
Lucas Brown
the CSA and its sympathisers are traitors who hate the freedom upon which the founding fathers built the US
Angel Walker
It's worse than that, they're actually cuckolds
Justin King
yes after all it was the south that was the most prominent in racemixing
Camden Robinson
>When Confederate retard pull the "yeh but the BORDER STATES HAD SLAVES" >forgetting that Lincoln had to keep the border states in the union no matter what and if they left then the CSA would win and slavery would perpetuate itself.
Adrian Rivera
I'm European and I sympathise with the Confederate States.
Joseph Sanders
you are worst yankee. you are the yankee idiot you are the yankee smell. return to new england. to our pennsylvania cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,west virginia we will never forgeve you. hillbilly rascal FUck but fuck asshole yankee stink union kansas shmansas..battle of fredericksburg best day of my life. take a bath of dead yankee..ahahahahahBOSTON WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget john wilkes booth.fords theater we kill the king , dc return to your precious maryland….hahahahaha idiot yankee and catholic smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE CHOWDER FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. south carolina+virginia+texas+georgia=kill union…you will war of northern aggression/ dale earnhardt alive in dixie, earnhardt racing cars in dixie . fast driver earnhardt dixie. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of dale earnhardt… you are ppoor stink yankee… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a crab shack
Levi Howard
Frederick Douglass was the most based abolitionist.
David Fisher
those reasons are exactly why people sympathise with the CSA
Dominic Stewart
>HURRAH FOR THE BONNIE BLUE FLAG THAT BEARS A SINGLE STAR
>the freedom upon which the founding fathers built the US Yes indeed user.
The freedom the Founding Fathers built the US...
...the freedom to declare independence...
...the freedom to create a new country...
...the freedom to write a new Constitution...
>oh wait I'm a giant Yankee hypocrite
Gavin Gomez
Fuck off freedom hating commie
Robert Sullivan
>many slave owners genuinely saw their slaves as their extended family and treated them like their damn kids >cuckoldry and racemixing was beyond rampant, which is why the average American nigger is 20% white on average and why the "white" southerners carry the most black genes out of all white Americans
Where did you get your history from? A movie? Sure there were a few people who didn't mind their slaves but "many" is just fabricated thinking. I'm sure only the house slaves were ever "part of these rare extended families" anyway. they still had to know their place anyway. As for "nigger lovers" define what you mean by that? Itf you mean they wanted to fuck with light skinned black girls" then that's just lust if not objectification. Wives fucking male slaves likely rarely happened and if did was extremely looked down upon
>Blacks ever getting out of hand and going on "crime sprees" in the south kek now I know you're an idiot. Any slave revolts that ever happened failed miserably too. And literally anti white to you fucktards is any place/policy where race mixing is tolerated in anyway(whether it's promoted or not) and people don't say ad nauseam that all other races are subhuman.
Owen Bell
DESU, you are both hypocrites. >Freedom, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for all: oh wait except for a certain population of people including women, and our poor farm owners.
>One nation under God, except we will just ignore of the biggest religious statute of that God that said to love your neighbor as yourself.
>Let's promote freedom by killing traitors who do what we don't like
Yup America was pretty much built on hypocrisy I guess.
Though if we were to read the constitution literally, I guess they didn't necessarily specify that women were included.
Blake Butler
edgelording is one of the primary motivations on Veeky Forums.
Jonathan Harris
southerners are proud of the fact that they stood up to the government and gave them a hell of a fight
thats it really.
Lincoln Barnes
Honestly, as a modern northerner, I think we'd be better off if the South had left the union.
UK would have pressured them to release slaves anyways, and the North could have things like socialized medical care while the South could experiment with their libertine parisdise.
Easton King
I don't really think the South was justified in its original cause for rebellion, but I think at this point the South is separated from the rest of the country socially, economically, and culturally. Plus, a lot of it among Southerners is that we still hold a grudge over all the burning, raping, and pillaging the North did. "My Great Great Grandfather got his plantation house burned to the ground, so fuck y'all."
Ian Torres
doubt it. We would most likely go into a sort of north korea south korea cold war thing and just be butthurt at each other forever.Even today we still kind of hate each other.
And european powers would just take advantage of that and pit us againt each other forever.
t. southerner
Grayson Powell
>posts bastardized Irish song >"Union had besd songs :DDD"
Christopher Wood
That's because you're a clueless edgelord.
Jace Stewart
>All said in a thick Southern drawl
Lucas Russell
Most people do principally, even most yankees. States rights is something universal.
Benjamin Jenkins
Revisionism and lost - cause - confederacy meme worship.
Jonathan Smith
The first thing is from Freehling's Road tu Disunion. The second thing is a biological reality, look it up.
Eli Barnes
They probably just had ancestors that fought in the war Or love the culture of the South
Luke Edwards
The founding fathers were slaveowning traitors you idiot.
Henry Allen
No the north needed the South economically back then. It really was the only reason they were against secession. The South's cotton powered northern textiles and the Mississippi River was needed for the Midwest to become industrialized.
Justin Green
Yours were. And they almost refused to secede if they didn't get to keep their slaves.
The south tantrum got them blacks treated as non-people so they could own them, but also treated as people so they could get votes for them.
And then they whine about state's rights and how they dindunuffin.
Dylan Green
All of these songs have weird origins. Dixie was written by an Ohioan for example. Yellow Rose of Texas was originally a song sung by the blacks. I'm a Good old Rebel was also originally some minstrel song that got its lyrics changed.
Jose Flores
The British freed a majority of the North's slaves during their occupation. The north was A OK with Washington and his slaves bailing them out. They were also OK with relying of the southern slave economy to finance their broke ass states during the constitutional convention. It's funny watching Yankees squirm out of all responsibility of american slavery. Feneuil hall was literally built with slave money. The north only began whining about slavery when it suited them. Jefferson was right.
Chase Carter
KC tier post.
Ethan Torres
How many slaves did the north contain?
Did the north insist on being more equal than others on account of their slaves?
Is your broke-ass state a net donor or receiver from the Fed today?
Joshua Jenkins
Most modern Americans cannot comprehend loyalty to one's state; most people move around so much they have no connection to it, as well as the federal government seizing power at every turn further diminishing their status.
So its no wonder you cannot comprehend it; when you have no connection you cannot fathom others's. Its literally that simple. Slavery, states rights, it all means nothing. Their state called them, and those men answered.
I don't care about the CSA, the Union, or slavery. I care about Virginia.
Eli Baker
Tbh, you're still fanny flustered. The north doesn't really care.
Connor Robinson
It's not mutual hate. The South hates the North while the North only makes fun of the South.
Leo Davis
Not very many after they sold them to the south. Plantation slavery was never applicable to the north. If it was, then you can guarantee they would have a lot more slaves.
>Did the north insist on being more equal than others on account of their slaves?
Then you could have walked away, but the north knew the south won the revolution for them and they needed southern cotton if they ever wanted to industrize. No one forced you to sign the constitution. The south also got taxed according to their slaves too, so it was fair. Meanwhile the new england states got their upper house of Congress which greatly benefited them and made them more equal.
>Is your broke-ass state a net donor or receiver from the Fed today?
It's a net donor and I would appreciate it if your rustbelt neighbors would stop moving here.
Thomas Garcia
>the north doesnt hate the south
lol. this entire election was them getting booty blasted at the dumb rednecks for voting for literally hitler
Jonathan King
Would have been even worse, because the North and South at least stick behind a DMZ and threaten invasion at each other.
The US confederate Border would have been one of the longest unnatural borders in the world, and unlike the one with Canada, there'd by tons of infrastructure and population at the border.
Control of the west, fugitive slaves, Border states, and the Missisipi river, etc. would have meant constant low intensity warfare. Even inside it's borders, the South had to deal with unionist rebellion, and as soon as anything goes wrong, Southern states and territories are likely to secede again.
Adrian Smith
My northern in-laws do nothing but whine about the south to me.
Jordan Turner
Except it was the Midwest which is a part of the North who elected Trump you dumb porch ape, not to mention Trump himself is a Northerner.
Matthew Thompson
You dont necessarily have to respect them but as for understanding how people could support them this is my analysis.
First the southern states and the northern states through a series of political decisions and cultural differences basically emerged with seperate and distinct visions of what America was. As more states were accepted into the Union the North through political maneuvering was able to curtail the easy admission of slave states into the Union. This was sort of middle finger to the southern states but also weakened the legitimacy of the southern states vision of what America was. In my honest opinion this emergence of two different ideas of American nationalism and what the United States was or meant is whay caused the civil war. Slavery was a big part of that but only in the sense that it was integral to the southern states conception of their nationality.
Dylan Davis
Cool anecdotal evidence Cletus.
Joshua Davis
As opposed to your thoroughly supported post?
Kek
Chase Sanders
Southerners really are dumbasses.
Dylan Jenkins
>I'm a Good old Rebel was also originally some minstrel song >the cadence of rebel Bet $100 I know what the word it replaced is.
Easton Hall
California here, we should both secede and ally against a US that can no longer support itself.
Cameron Flores
The south has a unique culture entirely separate from that of most of the rest of the country.
The Confederacy was a nation made of the south, embodying southern culture, by southern men. Almost all of my ancestors fought in the armies raised in Alabama. It's like living in Wales or Scotland and asking why your buddies have Welsh or Scottish flags hanging around their homes.
Most people, even the most virulent racists I know, disagree with slavery. Nobody is saying they want slavery back when they say they stand with the Confederacy. They're saying they stand with their culture, heritage, and people.
It also doesn't help that the south was put under a military dictatorship and economically crushed after the north won. (Even though they had a loose/soft hand and pretty much let the south do what it wanted anyway) That move created a bitter hatred that still exists to this day.
Thomas Lopez
>The south has a unique culture entirely separate from that of most of the rest of the country. So do the Mid West, New England, and the West. Stop pretending you're special in your uniqueness.
Isaac Reed
>So do the Mid West, New England, and the West. Yes. The yankees have their nation; we're living in it right now. Texans and Californians (the west) are proud as fuck to have had their own countries; I see Texas and California flags all over the place.
The midwest isn't super unique desu. I've lived there. They pull culture mostly from surrounding areas except for the mormon handcart thing.
>Stop pretending you're special in your uniqueness. Where did I do that? I literally mentioned Scotland and Wales as analogies.
Joshua Lopez
>Start a rebellion >Talk shit >Fire the first shots >Whine for a hundred and fifty years when put under martial law for 12 years >Only whining because you couldn't be racist fucking pricks for 12 years after you lost the war >Still whining about that to this day
southerners
Landon Campbell
South wanted a confederacy while the north wanted big federal government. Sucks because confederacy is the best method for states rights.
Owen Turner
He asked why millions of Confederate sympathizers still exist, not whether the position is based on logic.
John Morales
A; Regional loyalty. Same as a Brit spitting at Spanish claims on Gibraltar. He's a Brit so he supports the brits B-C - your theories D; aka me - I support the Confederacy's right to attempt a succession and sympathize with the idea that they were fighting for states rights in the federal govt (why should non slaveowning states dictate what slaveowners do, why should the cities command all the votes just by lieu of being cities and having more population by default) But I also believe the Confederacy was in the wrong and fully deserved what it got by the end of the war
Jacob Bailey
Been over this shit
>South may have fired first but the north resupplied a fort that blockaded the most important port in south at the time. >The north got its ass handed to it on numerous times even with more men and material >12 years of martial law but nearly 30+ years of economic recovery under reconstruction. >Implying you wouldn't be a whiny bitch if the CSA had won the war.
Thomas Barnes
But states rights are dumb and part of why they lost Its as hopelessly idealistic and feel-good-but-unfeasible a system as communism.
Evan Rogers
>the north resupplied a fort
not an act of war
>>The north got its ass handed to it on numerous times even with more men and material
not an argument lol you still lost
it's like wehraboos going on about how they won every engagement early barbarossa yeah but you still LOST in the end lmao
years of martial law but nearly 30+ years of economic recovery under reconstruction.
are you saying it was a good thing then? :^)
>>Implying you wouldn't be a whiny bitch if the CSA had won the war.
southerner tears
they're still hot and fresh 150 years on!
Eli Scott
It works for Switzerland afaik.
Thomas Jackson
Less than 100 years before, the US had just won a rebellion against a distant king. The country was founded on the idea that government should be local, and should be the same culture as the people being governed.
It should be no surprise the South wanted to do the same, considering how drastically different the North was.
Dominic Foster
>2016 >not being an anti confederate nativist to guarantee culture without causing harm
Jaxon Flores
>Yours were. Then the constitution is theirs as well you fucking clown
Ryder Bell
>why there are people who sympathise with the Confederate States? They're the underdog and the union underperformed for several years so it made the confederates much more romantic than if they had gotten roflstomped in a year.
Caleb Price
>Blacks should just get over centuries of slavery and oppression which is still within living memory and is still a problem. >Still haven't gotten over a single lost war 150 years ago.
Owen Richardson
>STUPID FUCKING REDNECK PIECE OF SHIT WE DONT HATE YOU
really made me go "hmmm"
Sebastian Nguyen
I can somewhat sympathize with southerners having pride in the confederacy. People outside of the south that claim rebel pride, in say Michigan, are fucking human garbage.
Aiden Cruz
>be great X3 grandpa in Pennsylvania regiment at gettysburg >have to stand in shitty fucking peach orchard >faggots from Mississippi unload kill half the unit >promoted from corporal to second lieutenant in a day because every commanding officer died my uncle still has his officers sabre
Andrew Phillips
>you live in a crab shack
Lucas Wilson
>putting words in other people's mouths
Carter Baker
How new are you?
Every thread it's the same story of dixieboos repeating the same cognitive dissonance.
Beating, mutilating, imprisoning and otherwise commiting and threatening violence against innocent people from cradle to grave, is perfectly acceptable, and so is rape, and ripping apart families in the pursuit of money and power. Yet commiting military action in response to a blatant act of war, is an unforgivable attrocity. Also all bad things about the south are due to the devestation of a 150 year war, but all bad things in the black community are genetic and all other factors are ignored.
Oliver Wright
Anybody here not a Southerner, but wish they could go back in time to fight and die for the Confederacy and its generals?
Michael Nguyen
I'm not culturecucked, so no.
Isaiah Collins
>wanting to die for the aristocratic planters who hated the white farmer
Matthew Sanders
I've been on Veeky Forums since 06', newcuck.
You quoted me and a couples others while replacing our statements with a strawman argument so you could seem "le edgy and jaded XD".
Robert Gutierrez
>using the word cuck You came during the 2016 election
Eli Watson
You can get killed pointlessly today too. There's nothing exclusive about it.
David Morris
Believe what you will. You still failed to address any of the actual points made and instead devolved directly into racebaiting.
David Reyes
>sperg out >get btfo >UMAD
Those negroid genetics sure are showing
kek
Ian Campbell
No he didn't. All the posts he was responding to where whiny bitching.
Christopher Lewis
2/3 weren't bitching.
The OP asked why some people were still nostalgic for a failed nation and the first two answered, neither mentioning race or who was "right". The third was bitching but it was in response to someone else.
This guy jumped in on an unrelated point in order to racebait and stir shit.
Jordan Rogers
>many slave owners for that matter were Jews
Disagree. The 1997 Junio Rodriguez text "The Historical Encyclopaedia of world slavery" claimed that only 1.25% of slave-owners in the South were Jews.
Brandon Wilson
I'm the first and third t. North Floridian
Gabriel Johnson
>South may have fired first but the north resupplied a fort that blockaded the most important port in south at the time. a) Resupplying is not an act of war and b) The South was never a recognized nation so if we blockaded what was technically our own port what does it matter? >12 years of martial law but nearly 30+ years of economic recovery under reconstruction. How is this bad? We were able to lasso the states back into the Union and then were able to modernize them up to par with the North until the Whites got back in power. Then they stunted any real growth for years until FDR stepped in with the New Deal. Most of the south outside of the cities was an absolute shithole. >Implying you wouldn't be a whiny bitch if the CSA had won the war. Fuck off Cletus.
Carter Sanders
>Blacks should just get over centuries of slavery and oppression which is still within living memory and is still a problem.
Nice joke faggot.
Ayden Jackson
/thread
Henry Myers
>Junio Rodriguez >trusting tacojews.
Alexander Bell
Institutionalized racial oppression is within living memory.
