How does Oda Nobunaga rate compared to the most famous Western generals like Alexander or Napoleon?

How does Oda Nobunaga rate compared to the most famous Western generals like Alexander or Napoleon?

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how the fuck could we know?
get your powerlevel shit outta here

nips a shit

He's actually fairly decent. Developed firearm and pipe tactics in Japan around the same time Europeans did. Understood and utilized psychology to maximize the efficiency of his levies. Reworked his power structure to a merit based system rather than a traditional one.

He ended up getting cucked by his own allies and lost everything he worked for. Where does that usually leave one?
Also why do modern artists like to revision his appearance so much?

to be fair he was pretty impressive in where he came from to where he was going

>Alexander
>king of Macedon that just conquered Greece
>Hannibal
>general of largest marinetime empire at the time and inheritor of a good chunk of Iberia
>Caesar
>general of the most powerful empire in the western world at the time
>Charlemagne
>King of the most powerful german tribe with the backing of the pope
>Napoleon
>general of one of the most powerful kingdoms in Europe

>Nobunaga
>inheritors of sake nobles in an irrelevant province

He is basically Hitler of japanese culture so edge lords draw him up as a pretty boy.

Hitler? Didn't her try to unite all of Japan(under his rule of course) thus ending all the civil wars for good? Of course he ends up getting beaten to it by Hideyoshi and later Tokagawa. It's sad.

This is the most realistic art of him I found. It's like animu fags forget most samurai at this time had the bald haircut.

He was a genius and well on his way to conquer all of Japan
And he came from an irrelevant clan and had to fight an army ten times larger than his as one of his first battles

He had a very good understanding of military strategy and made very good use of firearms

He was on par with Ceasar, Alexander and the like but people will shit on him simply for being a nip

You're talking about a guy literally everyone in Japan grows up learning about. They know what he looks like. What you posted is art from the same company that also did the fully-haired look posted earlier, but it's meant to be more realistic since the stylish look is for cuhrayzee action games while the other look is for a realistic grand strategy game.

The stylish look is a composite design derived from decades of movie and tv actors that portrayed Nobunaga, usually during his younger days when he was just starting out as a conqueror. It's also purposefully similar to the sort of look Cao Cao of Romance of the Three Kingdoms fame tends to get, because rather than Hitler the Japanese consider Nobunaga to be their Cao Cao and the Sengoku their RotTK. And just like how the novel and later artistic depictions dominate the look and tone of any depiction of the Three Kingdoms era in China, the many movies and plays of the Sengoku era has taken on a life of its own.

he burned down too many temples filled with women and children

He made a lot of enemies and has such been demonized in Japanese culture as a merciless killer

My favorite character in Drifters.

He also went "lol fuck tradition" which is probably worse from a japanese perspective.

also he called himself the demon king of the sixth heavens

>and has such been demonized in Japanese culture as a merciless killer

And a cute girl

>Not the fact that he basically got cucked by his friends before he finished conquering anything

At least Caesar was victorious before he was betrayed. He had more of an Abraham Lincoln moment where he died before he can utilize the fruits of his victory and actually get shit done in the nation.

Oh.
In what way?

Alex was pretty much cucked by his friends too

I've never seen Hitler drawn as a pretty boy by edge lords. Sauce?

Unlike Caesar and Alexander though, Nobunaga had to pretty much build himself up from next to nothing.

I thought he just took an arrow to the hip or something by mistake.

He inherited wealth from parents though; money talks more than you think. You mean politically?

>whines about wanting to go home and ending his campaign
>spend next few years breaking apart his empire and fighting among themselves undoing everything he worked for

at least Nobu's subordinates kept the unified Japan dream alive

He pioneered the adoption of the Arquebus in the Japanese military, which kind of went against the whole Fuedal aspect where Japanese samurai were now able to be mowed down by peasants with ease. Unlike in Europe though, the samurai made sure to confiscate and ban these weapons after Nobunagas death to ensure their status in Japanese society.

Also Nobunaga went against the preisthood and was infamous for torching The Buddhist temple of Ishiyama Hongan-ji, which made him further enemies among the preisthood.

He was basically the opposite of what Japanese men idealized the perfect man to be in that he was brash, had a short temper, and big ambitions.

wouldn't that make toyotomi hideyoshi better

>tfw Japan was unified by a monkey

he fucked a boy in the ass like alexander, that i know

he's pretty similar to caesar tho, he had a midget sidekick like octavian and he massacred a bunch of barbarians
>Unlike Caesar
educate yourself

>he fucked a boy in the ass like Alexander
Is pederasty the trademark of conquerors and Great Men?

not really

napoleon didn't do it, caesar didn't do it

Caesar had Rome. Sure, he had highs and lows, but all within the Rebublic at its height.

>Caesar had Rome.
caesar bribed half of rome and had some guy pay all his debts
the other half was trying to kill him

"And now I'm going to invade Korea, and then hopefully China" he said, and failed, and also died.

And the Oda had a castle, peasants, and shared borders with several much larger clans.

>"And now that the war is almost over I'm going to dispose of all these excess ronin and samurai"*
fix'd

so you're saying that nobunaga started with more than caesar did

gotcha

>implying Caesar and Napoleon started put as generals

>fix'd
He sent his loyalists,though.

truly the best history video about japan you could watch
youtube.com/watch?v=Mh5LY4Mz15o

Caesar started with a patrician family of Rome known for governors and political connections to other powerful politicians, and had its massive bureaucracy and army all his life to feed him taxes and manpower so long as he could position himself in the right place.

>dat foreshadowing

he also started with a dead father and sulla trying to kill him

>and had its massive bureaucracy and army all his life to feed him taxes and manpower so long as he could position himself in the right place.
>so long as he could position himself in the right place.
don't make difficult things sound trivial

I had their starting point when they began their campaigns

Even then Genghis Khan has the best point A or point B out of all of them.

That Sulla didn't because of the intervention of well placed family speaks volumes about my point. I'm not making any of it trivial, I'm saying this is unlike Nobunaga's situation which had almost none of these things which Caesar was born into.

>That Sulla didn't because of the intervention of well placed family speaks volumes about my point.
>he didn't actually kill him he just tried to kill him
> I'm saying this is unlike Nobunaga's situation which had almost none of these things which Caesar was born into.
yeah instead nobunaga had a different set of advantages he was born into like people not trying to murder him

Irrelevant little shit on an inbred island.

Imagawa was trying to wipe out his clan though

He never participated in warfare of that scale...Nobunaga is more like Charles the XII or something...

Nobunaga was already fighting a civil war with his brother when he was 16, followed by Imagawa invasion.

yeah but nobunaga had an army

Imagawa outnumbered him like 10 to 1.

caesar was outnumbered infinity to one because he didn't have an army

Nobunaga also started with his father dead
and brother

didn't he kill his brother

also caesar lost his dad at 16

Nobunaga had to use that army himself against a superior force, while the Julii resolved Caesar's Sulla issue for him at the same age. That's the difference.

So did Nobunaga

so did caesar
and caesar got tricked into looking like a man fucked him in the ass because he was autistic

everyone has problems, is what i'm saying

Some more than others is what we're saying.

wasn't the argument upon whose starting position was more humble

>Unlike Caesar and Alexander though, Nobunaga had to pretty much build himself up from next to nothing.
it was wrong on many levels, ie. nobunaga didn't start with next to nothing
nobunaga nad caesar had comparable starting positions

end of discussion

>Also why do modern artists like to revision his appearance so much?

To appeal to different audiences.

but then again
>Not the fact that he basically got cucked by his friends before he finished conquering anything

never a very good discussion to begin with

>The historical romantic comedy follows 17-year-old high schooler Sagara Yoshiharu who one day time-travels to the Sengoku period, where all the major Samurai lords are cute girls.
so you've got cute girls massacring women and children? or is it just more haremshit
not a good thread to begin with

They did not.

>She has a tsundere attitude, known by her enemies as the "Fool of Owari", she is a brilliant and ambitious teenage girl who plans to conquer and unite Japan to make it a strong nation equal to the Europeans. An admirer of foreign culture and items, their influences inspires Nobuna's ambition. Despite her denials, she actually has feelings for Sagara, and even though she looks down on him and frequently kicks him around she also admires him for his loyalty and his wits in helping her achieve her ambition.
disgusting, why even base this shit on real people in the first place
actually you're right, nobunaga's position was better

nah the thread is alright

it's just one shouldn't make hyperbole if they don't like hyperbole

Caesar gamed the system he was born into to get to its top. Nobunaga had to beat it into submission and make his own.

that guy isn't me, i started posting with

semantics

Then in more precise terms, Caesar had his family save him at age 16 to put him where he started to begin with, as part of the political elite of an already massive Empire that he maneuvered through to reach the top with its institutions and military might already well established to do something others in his lifetime had already accomplished. Nobunaga at 16 had to fight just to become what he was bot, master of Owari, a province withhold significance in Japanese politics to start with, and built his own system of alliances and military logistics to do something what no one else had done in centuries.

caesar had to fight against bureaucracy and an established political elite who eventually killed him; he wasn't relevant until he was like 40

nobunaga became a powerful warlord at 26

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okehazama

Like I said, one gamed the system and the other had to fight it in the literal sense of that word.

ok but fighting had its own advantages

if we're going to play the pity party game nappy wins erry day tho

This wasn't about pity, but who had the bigger climb.

nobunaga's climb was bigger but easier
caesar's was smaller but harder

Cyrus the Great I guess then?

...

Not that good. He was a very good military strategist, make no doubt, but given the scope of the operations for the named examples, Nobunaga pales in comparison.