LITERALLY holy

>LITERALLY holy
>LITERALLY controls rome
>LITERALLY an empire

your shitty stale meme doesn't apply for anything before 1500

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rûm
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>HOLY
>ROMAN
>EMPIRE

>HOLY
>ROMAN
>EMPIRE

1)The Catholic Pope is just one Patriarch. Being supported by that alone doesn't make you Holy
2)Controlling rome doesn't make you Roman. Heck, the local nobility of Rome tend to raise up against German installed Popes a lot.
3)In the medieval mindset, 'Empire' very much meant the Roman Empire. Which, as we all know, still exists in the east. You cannot become what already exists. The Pope had no authority to crown a Frank, then later Germans as Roman Emperors. It was a con on his part to get protection from the Lombards by making promises and providing rewards he had no authority to give.

This is why more modern academic works that mention the HRE tend to refer to it as the 'German Empire'.

>Controlling rome doesn't make you Roman
>Roman Empire still exists in the east

lmao. filthy greek orthodox are somehow roman, while THE KING OF ROME can't decide that the realm he lives in is roman?

>1)The Catholic Pope is just one Patriarch.

Cucktholics think otherwise though.

>This is a map of the extent of the >>> in 1200
Nigga wot

Lipservice aside, the >>> just did not have seen facto control that deep into Italy

Okay, lets walk you through this:
>Rome starts as a kingdom
>Rome becomes a republic
>Rome becomes an empire
>'roman' becomes a cultural label, not an ethnic thing
>Rome owns the east, Romans live in the east, they are Roman (from 212 onwards)
>Western Roman empire moves away from Rome a lot and focuses the capital elsewhere
>WRE collapses, ERE still exists
>ERE is still recognized as Roman
>Pope tells a barbarian he can be Emperor if he saves the Pope from being butt-fucked by a Lombards
>Barbarian becomes Emperor of the Romans, styles himself as Emperor of the Franks
>Barbarians's kids and grandkids fuck it up, empire falls apart
>ERE still exists
>A German King gets the Pope to tell him he is the Emperor of the Romans
>ERE still exists
Now, the rulers of the HRE might be 'Emperors', who control Rome, but they are not 'roman'. Roman is more than just controlling or ruling from Rome.

Does no one here actually study or read academically, or is it just >memes

the greek emperors are also not roman.
the german emperors controlled the king of rome, who in turn declared that the empire he lives under is the holy roman empire.
how dense do you have to be to understand this?

Primus inter pares, nigga
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Holy shit Im not the same guy but you are fucking retarded lmao. Please just shut up

>Literally the same Empire (till 1204) as the ERE which came about under the division by Theodosius's sons.
>not the roman empire.

Sigh

le plaintive sigh*

>muh nationalism

>looking at ancient history with a post-19th century shaped viewpoint

LOL stay deluded with your fucking myths and legends retard

>Greek-speaking, culturally greek kings with no roman legacy are somehow Roman

Not the other guy, but you are truly retarded.

>culturally different
>religiously different
>governmentally different

K

The culture, religion and government of the Roman Kingdom was different from the Roman Republic.

100% not holy because protestant reformation definitely showed SOMETHING wrong. Not Roman because that was 2 empires and this was one group that had this as their capital not their start. And 100% not and empire it was more of an alliance or loose Confederation

>Greek-speaking, culturally Greek
>somehow not part of Roman legacy
>somehow contradictory to the label "Roman"

This is one of the most idiotic posts on Veeky Forums.
Do you even know anything about the history of Rome and what was their relation to the Greek world?
Do Veeky Forumstorians think "Romans" were just the Latin speakers in Italy?

using your shitty logic, the united states can call itself english.
you seem to be lost, just like the other morons in this thread that have no coherent argument against the great medieval german empire that the popes (literal kings of rome) called it The Holy Roman Empire.

Main difference between your argument and the de facto argument is that the "byzantines" called themselves romans whilst americans call themselves americans.

At the time of the late republic, a roman was not someone from Rome. Ergo, you're quite possibly the densest motherfucker in this thread.

>At the time of the late republic
no one cares. hang yourself immediately.
it would still be stupid for americans to describe their country as an english country. just like it was stupid for the byzantines to call themselves roman.

on the other hand, when an empire that controls rome, is being declared roman by THE KING OF ROME, then it shows that each and every single one of you is a retard

Carry on pistoning yourself on that dildo, I guess.
I hope you come to terms with how and why you are wrong in the future, but until then marry christmas and a happy new year upon you and your kin.

>Upper Lorraine is below Lower Lorraine

In your expert opinion when does the Eastern Roman Empire stop being Roman, exactly?

The most emperors after 200ad were Greeks and Rome was Greek.

the moment they stopped controlling rome.
trying to contradict a counter example i gave doesn't make your argument right.

these are my points:
1) the medieval german empire actually controleld rome
2) the popes, who are the kings of rome, declared the german empire is the holy roman empire
3) the medieval german empire was an actual empire.

anyone who has triple digit IQ realizes these points are facts, and concludes that HRE was Holy, Roman, and an Empire

>The Holy Roman Empire is neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

Thread over, the name makes no sense, now go do something better with your time

>he thinks "lower" only denotes being south of something on a map
dumb frogposter

>the popes, who are the kings of rome
WRONG
The Pope is the Pontifex Maximus, he's not a Rex (king)
>declared the german empire is the holy roman empire
That declaration was based on the authority of the Pope that was in turn based on a forgery
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine
>the medieval german empire actually controleld rome
not all the time
when the New Rome (Constantinople) fell, the Eastern Roman Empire fell, even though there were successor states
>the medieval german empire was an actual empire
A confederation of multiple princes that elects an "Emperor" and is also highly decentralized is not an empire

>he thinks "lower" only denotes being south of something on a map

uhhhhh yes?

Lol all Germany knows how to do is shrink.

kys, really. I bet you think lower Egypt being in the north is weird as well.

How many claimants did we have to being the successor to Rome again?

>____ _____ ______
>Ottomans
>Russia
>Papal States

What dictates any of these countries being a successor to Rome?

...

You're a literal retard.

Theoretically, every colonial empire also claimed succession of Roman Empire as a justification for their expansion

>What dictates any of these countries being a successor to Rome?

Power and prestige.

>Hey It's Roman let's go bowling

ITT
>The rump state of the collapsed Roman Empire, Byzantium, retains the same government as that which came from Rome. Sitting in the hospital dying of aids or something, they complain that Germans are running around with their hat.
Basically the Franks take a kingship that the Greeks feel they still have. If you're Catholic, you believe that the Franks get it because of the Pope. If you're Orthodox, you're likely to side with the Byzantines.

>HOLY

>ROMAN

>EMPIRE

What's funny is that even the Ottomans recognized the Orthodox Byzantines and Orthodox in general as being the "Nation of Rome" (millet-i Rûm).

STOP IT NOW

HRE is the successor to the WRE. The Byzantines are the ERE. Only a joining of the two could make the true Roman Empire.

turks calling them rum doesn't mean they thought that the greeks are actual romans. they just used the arabic term rum which basically meant european.

it is like saying that calling native americans "indians" is the same as recognizing them as the successors of india.

By the time the western empire tell the city of Rome was an irrelevant backwater village

Romans were just greekaboos anyway

the culture of the empire was different from the republic

and this matters how?

HRE cucks not even once.

>but muh wikipedia!

>byzantinepedia
No thanks.

holy shit forestniggers blown the fuck out

Holy shit who is the dense motherfucker here who doesn't understand a single thing about post antiquity and Creco-Roman relations? I truly hope you're trolling with your Elitist idiocy.

>they thought that the greeks are actual romans
nice source

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rûm

>Veeky Forums
>anything other than memespouting faggitors
Kek.

Can you fags at least be fucking funny when we do this fucking thread every fucking day?

What is the fucking point if you're not going to be funny about it?

rivers you fucking idiot

>HOLY
>ROMAN
>EMPIRE

>the moment a nation loses it capital it's people cease to exist
Are you pretending to be retarded? If Washington DC fell and a new capital in th south started controlling the US are the people still Americans?

>LITERALLY HOLY
is the seat of the Church in its original form

>LITERALLY CONTROLS ROME
is the same Roman government that has always held power

>LITERALLY AN EMPIRE
1100 years baby

Why would it matter what the Ottomans thought?
They literally didn't exist as a people when Rome ruled the western world.

>629 AD
>Heraclius styles himself as Basileus, Greek word for "sovereign", and takes the ancient title of "King of Kings", after his victory over Persia.
>One of the most important legacies of Heraclius was changing the official language of the Empire from Latin to Greek in 620.

This is officially when the "Roman" Empire became the Byzantine Empire.

if you want to use that analogy, then they certainly couldn't call themselves washingtonian.

If the entire northern US fell and the southern US started speaking a different language and practicing a different organization of government, then yeah it would be something entirely different from the traditional USA.

The Hapsburgs are related to the Imperial Palaiologos dynasty through the Palaiologoi of Monferrat. The unified Roman Empire exists through them.

>holy
Catholics aren't Christian

literally no one cares

Greek was the language of the Roman elites.
It wasn't just some alien language that got imposed from outside without any prior contact with the Romans.
It was the language of culture and diplomacy.
For centuries you had Greek-Latin bilingualism in the Roman Empire. It was an essential part of Roman culture.

This should be basic history knowledge.

>A
>FUCKING
>ELECTION

God does

Latin was the language of the Roman elites. Greek was the language of the beta faggots of the east.

All educated Romans were "beta faggots" then.

Explain this spicy meme to me friend-o's
Explain like I'm 5

...

Voltaire once said something along the lines of "The Holy Roman Empire is neither holy nor Roman nor an empire"

...

...

Bilingualism is not the same as making the official language Greek in a Greek-speaking sphere.

What was Roman about the Byzantine Empire? Maybe Civil Law.

>What was Roman about the Byzantine Empire? Maybe Civil Law.
So, only the most quintessentially 'Roman' thing there is. Makes them Roman in my book.

>the most quintessentially 'Roman' thing there is
By what definition?

This entire thread is retarded. Nation states call themselves things they aren't all the time. Look at fucking North Korea. It's about as much a democratic republic as the HRE was Roman.

At the time Voltaire wrote this, the HRE did not hold rome, was often at odds with the church, and was more a collection of different germanic states than an empire. These states expanded their lands, but often internally. When it was externally, these lands did not necessarily become HRE turf.

>LITERALLY holy
by what standard?

>LITERALLY controls rome
Was Mussolini "Roman" as well?

>LITERALLY an empire
In name only

The meme is stale, but it isn't wrong.

>some germanic nigger got the pope to say that he wuz romans
>he owned rome so that makes this proclamation legitimate

lol. I don't give a fuck whether the Byzantines were "true Romans" or the pentarchy or any of that shit. Calling yourself Roman doesn't magically make you not a fucking Roman.

Is the United Nations also an empire?

>culturally
Yeah those Germans were much closer culturally to Rome than the Byzantines who shared a history with Rome and spoke the same language as the elite of Rome.

>religiously
Oh like half the fucking "H""R""E" come the reformation?

>governmentally
The E"R"E is much closer governmentally to the Roman Empire than the "H""R""E" ever was.

>Most
>Serene
>Republic

>SECULAR
>GERMANIC
>FEDERATION

so secular it actually tore itself apart while trying to protect Catholicism

Are you fucking kidding me...

>
>
>

The Russians married into Byzantine royalty and are Eastern Orthodox, thats their claim in a nutshell.

>so secular it actually tore itself apart while trying to protect Catholicism
Oh yes, because fighting between themselves is protecting christianity.

Poland-Lithuania, Balkan countries, Russia. - They protected Chrisianity. Rest is a fucking meme.

The Middle East would be Christian if Barbarossa didn't drown in a river.