Islamic Spanish Genocide

The French

The word you're looking for is ethnic cleansing, and it was done to Moriscos as well as Jews and Muslims.

Here's what happened, OP:

After Mohammad died, the Islamic faith was spread by aggressive military campaigns that conquered then-Christian North Africa, then-Zoroastrian Persia, and what is now Spain and parts of France and Italy.

This would've been in the late 600s-early 700s. The Muslims, then ruled by the Umayyad caliphate, invaded Europe and conquered most of Spain, even pushing into central France. In 732, the Umayyads were finally defeated at the Battle of Tours, and pushed back into the Iberian peninsula. There they established a civilization that was actually pretty enlightened for its time and is known to this day for its religious tolerance.

Over the next seven centuries, Spain and Portugal reconquered the Iberian Peninsula in what was called the Reconquista. Muslims living under Spanish rule were generally forced to convert, but what happened can be hardly called a genocide. Given that the Muslims had invaded Spain in the first place, I have a hard time seeing the reconquista as a one-sided war of aggression.

So I'm in a course right now that is going over the conquest of Nazi Germany by the rest of Europe and my teacher says they were unbelievablely brutal to the Nazis they conquered and that's why there are no Nazis in Germany now.
What's the truth to this? I'm confused

...

>5 million Muslims
Wasn't a majority always Christian?

>Like OMG ethnocentrism is literally Hitler! You can't judge another culture by your own standards!
>Like literally the europeans were all so brutal and evil and like literally Hitler

I'll admit I don't know a lot about the reconquista, but I wouldn't be suprised if they were pretty brutal. Despite the prominence of the convencia meme, moorish Spain was not a haven of multicultural exchange, but was rather marked by segregation and hostility between the various religions, which means that whatever treatment the muslims were subjected to should not be suprising, or considered somehow more brutal compared to other people at that time.

Your professor is a revisionist sjw. Mudslims invaded firsts. They got exactly what they deserved. Also, europes first genocide? That is pathetic.

That's the outdated narrative. What actually happened:

A confederation of North Arab clans lead several invasions for loot and tribute, and in the process opened up the Byzantine and Sassanid empire to groups of Arabian colonists who inserted themselves as adventurers and mercenaries forming local alliances while maintaining family ties with Arabia. One clique amassed enough clout in Syria to claim themselves emperor in the fashion of the Byzantines which caused the colonists to push further out or pay nominal tribute to the new dynasty, pushing into Spain and Khorasan where they joined up with local land owners to oust the previous regime. Islam developed in the turn of the 8th century as a result of the new bureaucratic culture in Syria and Iraq and radiated outward through the Arab colonies and their various local clients who began to Arabize themselves in order to secure a role in the developing and increasingly Arabic bureaucratic network.

In Spain they pushed the previous invaders back into France and ignored the northern mountain tribes, who themselves were never conquered by the Visigoths and had resisted them, while marrying into native Hispano-Roman families. In Southern France over the next century local Gallo-Roman and Visigothic remnant landowners both fought and allied with northern Frankish and Moorish mercenaries and governors until the Carolingians overpowered everyone in the 8th and 9th century. In the political chaos of the 9th century the Iberian mountain tribes converted to Frankish influenced Latin Christianity and began to descend into the plains, and since then they've been expanding south while displacing both Arab-Berbers and converted Hispano-Romans.

>the Battle of Poitiers is now "outdated narrative"
Kek.

Your professor should be impaled by a heated metal pole through his asshole like all the rest of the Muslim cock suckers.

That version of the story sure is.

...

>Islam developed in the turn of the 8th century as a result of the new bureaucratic culture in Syria and Iraq
Dead meme.

Islam, not the Quran. The Quran is certainly early 7th century. The religion that developed around its history of transmission (and later the text itself) as well as the legal tradition, all came decades later.

Oh no, those poor Muslims got kicked out of their peaceful Homeland.

Oh, what's that?

>he thinks Muslims and people who buddy up to them shouldn't be castrsted

Obviously Islam continued to change and develop after the 7th century, and Islam as it exists later isn't the exact same as it existed at it beginning, but that hardly means the religion didn't exist until then.

That is the non-edgy position, yes.

Which is why I never said it didn't exist, only that it developed later. While some version of it probably existed, it had none of the political dimensions of the mid Umayyad period that followed.

>it had none of the political dimensions of the mid Umayyad period that followed
What about the Rashidun?

A line of elected tribal chieftains whose guiding principle was the good sense and governance of their immediate predecessor instead of Muhammad or the Quran, both aspects which came later during the tail end of the Umayyad period to elevate them as model administrators against then contemporary decadent caliphs.

Sunnah for Ali and Uthman did not mean Muhammad's teachings, it meant the precedence of Umar and Abu Bakr.

That's interesting, but what are you basing this on?

"God's Caliph" by Patricia Crone is a good read for this particular subject.

I'll check it out, thank you.

>that's why there are no Muslims in Spain now
Your teacher didn't visited us in the last 50 years, right?

tell your professor that there is a difference between ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Religion is not race, genetics does not stop you from being a Muslim.

Inshallah friend, Re-Reconquista soon, this time we'll cross the Pyrenees.

I don't think so, amigo. Sandniggers are not prepared for low temperatures.

>genocide of [ideological belief]

When will this meme end?

>Religion is not race
During the Reconquista it could be.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpieza_de_sangre

The focus was on religion, not blood.

This is what makes it ethnic cleansing, not genocide.

I'm pretty sure I've read how lots of the local people who were under the visigoths remained there and largely were muslim converts in name only.

heh...good answer.

>The focus was on religion, not blood.
>de sangre

I was being serious actually. Before the influx of Frankish priests and queens the standard practice for any Iberian prince who conquered a town was to guarantee the religious customs and privileges of each community. The idea that Jews and Muslims should have their places of worship confiscated for churches, and not just the one major cathedral/mosque of the city for administrative purposes, and that Mozarabs should be forced to adopt the Latin Christian rite and priests over their own, started with them.

>In the political chaos of the 9th century the Iberian mountain tribes converted to Frankish influenced Latin Christianity and began to descend into the plains, and since then they've been expanding south while displacing both Arab-Berbers and converted Hispano-Romans.

10/10 post. The Normans and Northern Italians also got in the mix.

Is this some kind of bait?

>Frankish
>French

As in Christian religious traditions long developed in Frankish territory, in particular the Cistercians and the Benedictine reforms, and the French nobility of the 11th and 12th centuries that supported them.

Nod and agree with her, OP. In the classroom your teacher is god, it's not worth arguing about. However, take everything your K-12 teachers tell you about history with a large amount of salt. They probably aren't more qualified to teach history than any other subject, and they love throwing in false exaggerations and anecdotes they read online.

>and they love throwing in false exaggerations and anecdotes they read online

Just be aware everyone else likes to do this, too.

Muslims were brutal too. They used to leave piles of spaniard heads so high that one couldn't see over them while on horse back. It was a brutal war, but the more civilized won in the end.

>more civilized

Visigoths are literally the niggers of Europe and the Spaniards continued to hold that title after the re-conquest

It was brutal however the Muslims did not force convert the Visigoths or mass murder them.

The Spaniards destroyed one of the first universities of the world, libraries, many mosques including the largest mosque ever built in history, they're not any different to modern day ISIS.

A re-conquest is obviously justified however going further and wiping out any remnants of the civilization is a bit too much ( I dont know if there was a genocide tho)

Theres tons of muslim architecture and shit still today in southern spain, where they were stablished the longest. Of course they killed many of them and forced everyone else to convert, so what. The muslims did worse things to them

Shame there was never got a Greek reconquista cause you're right, Muslim < literally everything else

>/r9k/ visits Veeky Forums

>You can't judge another culture by your own standards!
>the europeans were all so brutal and evil
>I don't know a lot about the reconquista
>moorish Spain was not a haven of multicultural exchange
Good post!

In HS I had a teacher who unironically used the term class ''''''''genocide'''''''

Are you retard?

>conquer spain, kill thousands of natives in your religions conquest = nothing
>those people reconquer their lands by bonding through another religion, killing their former overlords = genocide

why are Muslim /pol/-tier retarded?

>invade
>natives fight back and kick you out
>whine, claiming it to be genocide
I hate apologists that try to victimize anything for their own personal gain.

Yeah, but the Sephardic Jews, man.

were sent back to sephadia in north africa, with all the loot they plundered from the spanish man back in spanish hands.

I think under modern definition forced relocation is a part of genocide.

Show your teacher this list of common names in Spain. Genocide lol

blog.myheritage.es/2010/08/¿su-apellido-tiene-origen-morisco-moro-o-arabe-proveniente-de-espana/

also the spanish language is full of arabic words

>hello I'm retarded

>when people talk about muslim spain as if it was one thing
>when people ignore the fact that the Almohads were completely different to the Umayyads

>Show a "teacher" from Veeky Forumstronic "course" a "list" from a random web.
Why not?

IF YOU DEFEND YOUR NATION FROM ARAB EXPANSIONISM YOU ARE A RACIST

People forget the muslims in spain were invaded twice by other muslims and they burned much of it cause it doesn't suit the antiwest narrative
Other than the rulers, all the population from alandalus were native

t. mohamed

Moriscos are muslims

>There were Christian majority and strong Jewish minority in Muslim Spain for centuries
>Most Muslims and Jews in Spain were forcible converted or expelled in a decade after "Reconquista"
Gee, I wonder which side was more tolerant and which one more fanatical.
>Reconquista was a reaction against Arab expansionism
It became real thing literally centuries after Arab expansions, and Iberian Kingdoms had little to do with Spaniards under Muslim rule except for Christianity, and they build their propaganda around it. I mean, it's like Mexico declaring war on US right now to "defend against British expansionism" and to liberate fellow Native Americans from the white people.

Your teacher is an antiwhite who doesn't believe that europeans have the right to defend and fight back muslim invasion
Remember Egypt and Anatolia were christian and now they are 99% muslims, yet he doesn't care does he?
Does he care about premuslim afghanistan, india or Persia?
No?
That's whay I thought.

Muslims build 2 mosques (Cordoba and Sevilla) and 2 palaces (Alhambra and Medina Azahara)
So much for the golden age.
4 buildings in 800 years.

>So I'm in a course right now that is going over the reconquest of Spain by the Christian
No, you are not.

>After expelling jews and muslims, Spain became the european superpower and invaded a whole continent.
Makes you think

jews opened the gates, they had it coming.

>Spain

>implying ideas floating around on the Arab peninsula disprove the late Islam thesis

They were not dumb enough to destroy the mosques, they turned them into churches and cathedrals.

Well look up the UN definition on genocide and come backl.

unlike churches in the arab world

> Remember Egypt and Anatolia were christian and now they are 99% muslims, yet he doesn't care does he?
Egypt has 10-15% of Coptic population, who are Christians living there since before the Muslim Conquest 1400 years ago. Syria, Levant and Iraq have substantiation Christian minorities since the pre-conquest times too. At the same time, there is no Saxon, Baltic or Slavic pagans left in Europe, no Muslims in Spain or Sicily and almost no native religions left in Americas. Historically speaking, until recently it was much more comfortable to be a religious minority under Muslims when under Christians.

>my teacher says they were unbelievablely brutal to the Muslims
Sounds like your teacher is horribly fucking biased and prejudiced against Christians.

Maybe she or he can teach a history that seeks to understand and not demonize one particular side.

>BWAHAHAHAHA

I'm just kidding. Most teachers teach with a 100% full on liberal left-wing reading of history now.

You'd be very fucking lucky to actually get some unbiased history from a teacher nowadays.

No, actually most people goes to school and some even to Universities later.
But Veeky Forums goes to randam courses teached by who knows in imaginary colleges.

You mean like the Haghia Sofia or the Tripoli Cathedral?

Or are you insinuating that ISIS blows up churches? Because they more often than not repurposed them.

You shouldn't base your arguments on Tourist Guides and memes.

What is albany, what is bosnia, what is tartaristan?
How well do coptics live?
Where are the christians in Anatolia?
Where are the zoroastrians in Persia?
Where are the buddhists in Afghanistan?
What is Pakistan?

Yes, the state of the churches in literally every arab country is shit.

Do you know about the holy sepulchre?
>Haghia Sofia
Oh you mean that bulding that got painted over?
>Tripoli Cathedral
Changed forever, doesn't even resemble the same building, and absolute disgrace
That's sevilla you fucking mongol, I already mention that.

le one church btfo

All of your examples pretty much date back to the 20th century. Also there like 30.000 Zoroastrians in Iran and in general those countries are pretty much heterogen religious-wise if you look closely. Iranian Jews for example were expelled in the 80s only. Prior to the revolution 100.000s were living in Iran
Pic related.

On 18 October 1009, Fatimid caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the complete destruction of the church as part of a more general campaign against Christian places of worship in Palestine and Egypt

Before le crusades

>Tunis, former french colony
ok
Who would pay the jyza if there were no kafirs?

>not knowing that Palestine is plastered with Churches
>not knowing about Orthodox Palestinians
Educate yourself bro.

>Tunis, former french colony
>actually believing this is an argument here
Yeah, he was a dick. So what? Cause pilgrimage to the Holy Land was for the most part pretty easily. Especially since it brought money in.

Al-Hakim was a known nut who fucked with everyone, and his successor apologized to the Byzantine Emperor for the embarrassment and rebuilt the church.

>never been to an American elementary "social studies" class
You have no idea the level of indoctrination that goes on nowadays