Who is in the wrong here?

Except no one is being enslaved. Their being pushed out because they're to poor to afford housing due to how nice the Jews have made the place. It's basically gentrification in the Middle East.

Both have their fair share of innocent blood on their hands.

A slightly better comparison would be South Africa under apartheid.

No, the issue is largely the settlements. That is less gentrification and more "taking of the west".

I wasn't saying zionism is slavery. I was comparing it to something that seems intuitively wrong to most people and is therefore hard to defend honestly.

The debate's very confused because one side is committed to manipulation and dishonesty as a raison d'etre. Not that the pro-Palestinian side is particularly honest, but they don't need to pathologically confuse and lie about the basic facts like the zionist side needs to. Once you understand and accept that you're dealing with a pathological liar and look at the hard to manipulate facts things become much more clear.

>Higher standard of living than any middle eastern country
>Modern code of laws not based on 8th century morality
>Highest levels of education in the Middle east and some of the highest in the World
>Constantly attacked by retarded neighbors and still one of the most stable places in the region due to strong military
>Women can go outside in reasonable clothing without taking acid to the face
>Gets blamed for war crimes because they build too many settlements in areas that are borderline with the backwater fucks next door and because they have to use force to defend themselves from crazy brainwashed scum
Fuck Arabs, Give it all to the Jews

The ones with European surnames LARPing as a long dead semitic state.

Stop, you're giving me Stirner flashbacks

yeah, because no one lived in those places, totally unlike Palestine.

Africans and Amerindians don't matter.

This

Neither do Arabs. Hell, I prefer Africans to Arabs.

this desu

Shut it down

Europe

Neither of them. Only one entity has the right to those lands.

History has tought us a lot of bullshit and this is just another one, HOLY LAND my balls!

>I prefer Africans to Arabs
t. american

Wrong. My grandparents were kicked out in 1963. Their parents were college educated and lived in their home for generations. They torn down their neighborhood and built a suburb
>Haven't held thre land for more than 1000 years except for pretty principalities
>has right to lands

So get a house in that suburb poorfag. Just because your family was educated doesn't mean they were rich or that they deserved the land any more than the people who live there now. Israel has objectively improved living conditions in that area, blame your own people for running it into the ground.

>Haven't held thre land for more than 1000 years except for pretty principalities
>has right to lands
what an arbitrary timeframe
what gives you any right to those lands then, if your family hasn't even lived there since the 60's

Back then, right as it was founded, it was Israel's fault. Then for a time (decades) Palestinians were in the wrong, badly.

Nowadays? Each side does some serious messed up shit to the other consistently, and considered that they are managing by combined effort to turn Gaza and surrondings literally unlivable (as in "can't sustain life" unlivable), I doubt that a clear wrongdoer will emerge unless nukes start flying or the Israelites Parliament is successfully raided and painted in blood.

israelis are encouraged to change their names after relocating, and nearly all do

>Has never held the land
>has right to lands

Fuck palestine. Without Israel, the whole place would be just another 3rd world arab shithole under the thumb of some warlord.
At this point Israel should just annex the place and deport the palestinians to Jordan,where they belong.
Everybody is just tired of listening to a bunch of arabs whine about muh souvereignity for 70 years straight while they contribute nothing of value to society as a whole.

Also let's be real; Israel has shown a lot more patience than any arab dictator would have. If they had pulled the same shit under an arab dictator, they would have gotten to taste some mustard gas until they fall back in line.

The fact that Israel lets them get away with all that bullshit like a spoilt child is already enough to give Israel the motal high ground.

>Patagonia
Fuck off. How about the kikes in your own country?

Israel. Basically a colonial state founded just after colonialism stopped being okay. And the justifications for their actions toward the natives are at their best just like the arguments used to defend colonialism, at the worse basically Nazi "Lebensraum"-tier.

Do people just ignore the fact that it was given to the Israelites by the UN? Every war there after was an attack on them, not the other way around. It's not like they fought and killed too take the land. the only expansion they did after Israel was reestablished was when they were attacked

>Do people on Veeky Forums ignore the central facts and spout muh Arabs muh Jews nonsense

Yes.

DEUS VULT

>ctrl f anglo
>nothing

GEE, I WONDER WHO?

>Do people just ignore the fact that it was given to the Israelites by the UN?

After they waged a continuous guerrila warfare on the British mandate in charge, led political movements for it, and bribed and brainwashed the goyi to support it...

Every fucking UN members doesn't improve it. But America decided to give veto and overrule the vote. Yeah, democratic my ass.

Morally Jews are wrong, they aggressively drove Arabs from their land, but then again so did Europeans in the Americas.Yes, Jews had some legitimate claims based on history and some continuous presence on the land, and huge moral capital thanks to the Holocaust, although it's it's interesting how Europeans decided to right the wrongs they did by giving away Arab's land, why not give Konigsberg to Jews? In the end it doesn't matter because in both cases invaders were able to establish effective government, defend their gains and expand their control, so everyone else just accepted them as the actual rulers of the land.

Pogroms to the left of me, gulags to the right, here I am, stuck in East Asia with Jews.

>lefties love illegal immigrants
>except for Jewish ones

If i am UN council general I will force 2 things

>Jerusalem is a Free state city under UN law, this city will be governed by an atheist, protected by UN law designed, and the security will be doing by UN peace guard

>Palestine will have their independence, but their area is only consisted the area that being today. If this want to be happened, All countries that pro Palestine and the palsetine itself must accept Israel as a legit country

The Holy Land belongs to God's chosen people, Christians. Bring back the Crusades. DEVS VVLT.

>righties hate illegal immigrants
>except for Jewish ones

stop falling for spooks lad

*Clears throat*
Wrong, and here's why.

Palestine doesn't exist

Come it get it

israelis are encouraged to change their names after relocating, and nearly all do
This

arabs are in the wrong because islam is slightly more disgusting than judaism.

>I prefer Africans to Arabs.

same.

Israel, the jews already won the land yet still continue to torment the Palis in Gaza for nothing more than fun, its typical jew behavior though since Jews are the human incarnation of pure evil its is expected for jews to murder and torture nonjews as a sport because that is how twisted jews are in the head.

The Palis could leave but the evil jews want goyim to torture so they dont let them immigrate to Europe but let Syrians(who will fuck up Europe) do that instead.

Truely there is no human that is a greater threat to our species than the Jew of the Levant region.

>in unironically ignorant of the fact that Gaza shares a border with Egypt, who places just as much security there as Israel
>even under the brief rule of the Muslim Brotherhood

Turns out, not even other Arabs want to set the Palestinians free.

This.
The creation of Israel was a mistake (helping refugee by taking the lands of another people and making them refugee themselves, yay). The partition plan that the british presented to the "palestinians" was a fucking joke and Israel didn't respect their promess to bring no harm to the population already established there.

There aren't any good solutions to this conflict right now, the only 2 that I can see are:

1-Israel annex the palestinian territories and recognize the palestinian as citizens
2-They actually create and recognize a palestinian state and give territories so the west bank and gaza are linked

>all problems in the ME start with the brits.
Sykes-Picot: check
Israel: check
American interventionism: a little far-fetched but let's say check

And what about wahabbism? Are they somehow responsible for its spread?

>Turns out, not even other Arabs want to set the Palestinians free.

Because it legitimizes Israels illegal international law breaking behavior.

Well the Brits are a major arms dealer for the Saudis and a British adventurer named Shakespear helped the Saud family rise to prominence in the peninsula.

Israel. But then again Israel is unironically the nicest, most developed place in the middle east. That's why they'd be better to keep around.

>setting people free legitimises the illegal action of those keeping them prisoner

Bing, thank you. Fuck you T.H White and fuck you English teacher for making me read that shitty jewish book about muh pacifism

Both are in the wrong. They should try to reach an agreement

There's no value in weighing the good and the bad here.

The only real question is whether you want another poor Arab dictatorship, or do you want a rich, tolerant Western-style democracy?

imo it's really on the UN and Jordan, Syria and Lebanon for refusing to help integrate Palestinian refugees into neighboring countries, but rather forcing thousands (somehow now ""millions"") of refugees to become political capital used against the only decent country in the region.

>the war of '47 was Israel's fault
>literally 100% Arab war of aggression, complete with rhetoric like 'drive the Jews into the sea' just two years after the Holocaust
>this is somehow Israel's fault

Childhood is blaming everything on Israel or the Palestinians. Adulthood is realizing that the whole thing is basically the eternal Anglo's fault, but that both sides have been in the wrong at various times on various issues subsequently, and that Israel is mostly in the wrong at the moment and must return to its pre '67 borders and move the capital to Tel Aviv as the basis for any solution.

if you have to ask who's in the wrong here you're a dunce.

>strong military power occupying land, building settlements, forcing Palestinians into smaller and smaller zones, cutting off supplies, plotting to ethnically cleanse before Israel was even established, countless human rights violations
vs
>people forced off their land because the occupiers ancestors lived there a long, long, long time ago

hmm I wonder who's the bad guy here

As someone who has studied the conflict, who has friends that are Palestinian, and who has become slightly redpilled from pol this is my analysis; A.) The brits are fucking terrible (French too) B.) Israel is essentially a colony of the West. C.) It's impossible at this point to remove Israel as they have established their dominance in the are. What I would like to See is a 1 state solution which will never happen because the Arabs populate more frequently which would undermine the ethnic state the jews wish to maintain.

except for white imperialism according to kikes

>palestinians dindu nuffin dey wuz gud bois just about to go to the UN
hmmmmmm

they literally didn't do anything though. When Jewish immigrants started coming they were accepted, until zionists started plotting to ethnically cleanse Palestine. inb4 b-but Hamas just fuck off.

this

but hamas is a real group
you want to deny a major palestininan terror organization just because it doesn't fit your victim narrative?

Hamas wouldn't exist if it weren't for zionism

>there were two Jewish kingdoms in the region, one called Judea which was in the South, and one called Israel (or Samaria) which was in the north
>Israel is eventually destroyed, and Judea gets vassalised
>Judeans are fiercely independent, and viciously rebel against the the Greeks, and later the Romans
>after the particularly large Bar Kokhba Revolt, the Romans decide to fuse the province of Syria with Judea, and displace and exile large swathes of the Judean population
>this new province they call "Syria-Palaestina", after one of the ancient and long vanquished enemies of the Jews, in order to mock and shame them
>this land never has a well defined people living in it afterwards , and changed hands multiple times
>Jews, Greeks, Romans, Muslim clans, crusaders, the Ottoman Empire and the British all held the land at some point, although Jews did always maintain some presence in it, especially in Jerusalem
>Jews, mainly from Eastern Europe and in order to escape persecution, start settling the Ottoman controlled Palestine
>British take over
>Jews continue to settle there
>this angers the Jordan based Arabs, and Britain firmly splits Trans Jordan into Jordan and Palestine
>Hitler deports some Jews to the mandate of Palestine
>ww2 and Holocaust happens
>thousands of Jewish refugees flock to the British mandate of Palestine
>Britain pulls out and UN partition plan happens
>they agree to give the Jews 40% of the land and the Arabs 60%
>Jews accept, Arabs decline
>the local Arabs decide to attack, as well as neighbouring countries such as Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, openly stating that they fully intended to massacre the Jewish population
>Jews win the war
>Israel now exists
>Muslim countries begin persecuting their own Jewish populations, either through the government or just civilian mobs
>over 800k Mizrahi Jewish refugees flee to Israel
>now, more than half of Israelis are of Mizrahi (middle eastern Jewish) descent

And let's not forget that the Palestinian Authority, or a Palestinian controlled Gaza, wouldn't even exist without Israel. Gaza was controlled by Egypt while the West Bank (Judea and Samaria), was controlled by Jordan, prior to the six day war.

Both sides. Both sides butcher civilians and want to see the other wiped out.

To those who claim Israel has no right to exist, when exactly did the whistle blow on territorial border changes?

Indeed. Palestinian nationhood was never even a thing until the neighboring Arab coalitions had tried and failed several times to destroy Israel with outright warfare.

It's almost like the Arabs/Muslims really couldn't give a shot about the suffering of their Palestinian brothers, except as a stick with which to try and beat those damn Jews over the head with.

But we're talking about who's in the wrong between Israel and Palestine. Should the Israelites have turned it down? Unreasonable.

Both. It was literally the Eternal Anglo striking again.

Both

So you side with Israel then, they're a state created by Europeans for Jewish Europeans.

10/10 grooved and lost

Touche

Am I the only person in the world who actually understands the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? It's like nobody thinks about from from a geopolitical perspective, which is utterly retarded.

1) Israel has the right to exist because it has proven itself through war. Anybody who denies that right is welcome to try attacking them again, and will most likely lose. This is a solved issue.
2) De-facto, Gaza + West Bank are part of Israel. They control it and consider it their own, and the Palestinians are too weak to do anything about it. Palestine therefore can never exist as an autonomous state.
3) The only "solutions" would be ones acceptable to Israel. A two-state solution will never occur because it will require giving up Jerusalem and be a security nightmare. A true one-state solution will never occur because giving the Palestinians citizenship will destroy Israel (it will no longer be a Jewish state). Therefore there are only two options: maintain the status quo, or deport all the Palestinians somewhere else. The former is far more reasonable than the latter.
4) Therefore the ideal situation for Israel is the current one and "peace" is nonexistent leftist fantasy.

Israel.
Israel as a sovereign nation-state is a Biblical myth believed by Western Christian cucks.
Palestine actually has a history as opposed to an Israeli prehistory.
It literally takes a few minutes of reading to realize this...

The one that lost the wars
as always

Have they proven themselves through war, or has someone done it for them?

So going by your reasoning colonial Africa is OK because "otherwise it'd be a shithole." Typical line of thinking from "God's chosen people".
Also do you think Jews would ever throw away the "muh victim" status? They need those periodic terror attacks to keep them relevant to Western christ cucks who give them so much money.

it makes no difference. being able to build strong alliances (as Israel has done) is a legitimate form of military strength, as it has been throughout all of history. that's how geopolitics works.

>1) Israel has the right to exist because it has proven itself through war. Anybody who denies that right is welcome to try attacking them again, and will most likely lose. This is a solved issue.

Gimmie twenty years.

>Everyone but me is dumb
>Geopolitics is synonymous with international politics, not how geography relates to international relations

>What ifs
Get out of here.

All Israeli military action has been retaliatory after 1950. Palestine has refused every potential solution given to them because, despite being very clearly the losing side and this unable to dictate their terms in the conflict still insist on a childish "right of return" policy for millions of people who the UN have decided are refugees.

Palis are responsible for all civilian deaths at the hands of the IDF for idiotically not realizing that capitulation is their only option. This whole subject is retarded.

Yes, Jews deserve a right to self determination. Yes, Israel is just as "legitimate" (whatever that means) as any other state in the ME, and yes, after 1950 Palis were the only people systematically sponsoring international terrorism cabals and they and other Arab nations are entirely at fault for the current situation. Israel is just reacting to the hostile actions of nations run by 7th century troglodytes that surround then.

>implying anything would slow US spending

shake htat spear my boi !!!

Any gulf Arab country blows Israel the fuck out when it comes to statistics.

Not to mention Israel is actually apretty poor country by western European and American standards, I guess the Jews are unable to get rich if they don't form a parasitic class in a foreign host.

Not a Merkava. Not an argument.

>haven't held the land in 1000 years
So like the Jews before '48.

Only because of oil, without it they will only have their sand and degrees in Islamic Studies.

This is perilously it.

Imagine being one of 250,000 arabs, or one in about 50,000 christians, then add a bunch of druze. that was 'mandated palistine after the ottomans gave it up.

Then, in 48', with the help of US and Uk arms, jewish militias formed and committed terrorists acts against the British, Then, 3 millio European Jews entered the region and starter calling it their own country.

Considering that, go back 4000 years. The mans name is abraham and he is from Ur Kasadim (modern iraw, near falluja). He left the city of Ur, which worshiped the moon god sin, with his brother, as it says in the
"new testament", and leaves for the lands of Canaan.

It was here, a Ranch like (plantation) family raided their neighbors, and essentially conquered them through war and genocide. taking their women as slaves and massacring.the males. The horn of jericho, as mentioned in the bible, is the definition of a weapin of mass destruction.

They are the first group of people, in their own religious histories (tanakah), to use a weapon of mass destruction against an indigenous population.

Their are 316 instructions in Judaism, some are about how they treated and genocided the ammorites (Canaanites)

likewise, The primary financier of the state of Israel was the UK, it was only when they had enough refugees to necessitate a state that the UN - created only a year earlier - to partition Palestine. Prior, the British attempted such with the league of nation with little influence to pull it off.

The primary financier of the nazies, the bulshavicks, and the the wars in Europe where wall street and the bank of England (walter rothschild was the head at the end of ww2) - he also, personally, contributed millions to Israel and help finance its first capital building.

Israel is the creation of banks, causing so much world wide chaos and death, that they necessitated a need for an ashkanesim /invasion, at the demand of financiers whom governments owed billions.