Serious question. Prove the christian god is real to me

According to scientists, the universe has an ultimate beginning.

Meaning that before the universe, there was nothing.

According to the law of physics, we can't create something out of nothing.

Following this logic, we shouldn't exist in the first place, but somehow we do.

God created us user. Worship God. He is our Creator.

Not saying which religion is true though, it too vast of a topic.

Merry Christmas atheist.

>implying death exists

This is why the Abrahamic religions are so silly.

>According to the law of physics, we can't create something out of nothing.

Actually not true.

It's about faith not looking for proof. The proof comes when you die.

Read the 'universe from nothing' reception.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Universe_from_Nothing

The 'nothing' has too much something in it.

What created God then?

>God created us user. Worship God. He is our Creator.

This is where you went full retard. Leaps in logic like this are nowhere near as convincing as you think they are.

>The proof comes when you die.

Now is not the time for proof.
That comes later.

If God isn't real, why are there so many churches?
God created the universe in 7 days. There's 7 days in the week. Coincidence, I think not.
In medieval time people found pieces of Christ's cross but never found his tomb.
Israel is a real country just like it says in the Bible!
Hell is real, this is why the center of the Earth is hot.
Need any more proof?

He just.... there. Exist before time and space itself.

Where do I leap logic? Say it to my face. Read hawking:

hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

hawking.org.uk/the-origin-of-the-universe.html

The link indicates that the universe has a beginning.

ITT people arguing for the existence of god but not the christain one

Jesus performed miracles for disciples.

How else could he have made a devoted following who would martyr themselves for his every command.

Let Jesus speak to you:

Mark 12:28-29:

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the LORD IS ONE."

John 14:48 :
....My Father is greater than I

John 10:29:
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all...

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing....

Johh 5:30 clearly implies Jesus does not possess the quality of God. God can do everything.

Matthew 24:36:
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This verse is talking about doomsday. This clearly state that Jesus(Son) doesn't know when is doomsday. God know everything, but Jesus doesn't know everything.

So what? See

I always wondered if people like this on Veeky Forums are incredibly dedicated trolls or motherfuckers who are so Goddamn oblivious to their surroundings and themselves that they can't realize they are just pissing in the wind

Hey, I just said let Jesus talk. That's all. Or am I quoting wrong? Or does quoting Jesus make me a faggot?

Ah the classic "universal god" retort, when you cant defend religion in its diversity, just point to a God as an abstract entity which created all of us AS IF this implies it cares one tiny bit about us
Religious people are delusional
Inb4 fedora

>I can't contradict shit
>I'm also a pussy
>so I just throw my logic and say he's a retard
As expected from atheist. You don't have the steel uretra to find a hole in my logic.

IT

JUST

WERKS

Praise Kierkegaard!

So I'm supposed to believe that it's impossible for something to come from nothing (or "nothing", as the case may be), and that it's possible instead for a perfect transcendent anthropic entity to have existed in the false-nothingness and to have created everything, one that also wants to be worshiped by an infinitesimally small and imperfect speck in its Creation, and which reveals itself to this speck through a series of contradictory prophets and revelations that also betray its apparent imperfections?

The Christian God? Lol. Impossible mate.
If God exists, he is completely inhuman and let's everything happen because he cannot feel loss or pain like we can.

Prove the classification of finite simple groups.

You have to examine it from various angles to become confident in Christianity. A Veeky Forums post is too short to contain all the information required to make a strong case.

Hey, I'm not saying that Christianity is correct. I'm just saying which religion is true is too vast to discuss right now.

Now, if you read , Hawking himself stated that the universe has a beginning. Meaning it was nothing before.

"B-but something can come from 'nothing'."
*Slap* See .

Now, according to the law of physics, it impossible for us to exist. But somehow we do.

Now, if all physics laws(quantum included) point that it's impossible for us to exist. Then there must mean 'something' that can bypass that law, and that 'something' is God.

>if God exists
Read the text above. But everything else you said is logical.

Naw, according to 1 Corinthians 14:33:

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

A simple post or two is enough to get someone to either disregard Christians or turn into Christians.

You don't really undestand the part about "universe has a beginning", do you? The common theory is that there was a core that contained all the matter and then the core exploded. What was before that is not being seriosly studied, since there is no data on that and therefore it is impossible to study.

>According to scientists, the universe has an ultimate beginning.
What is this? 19th century?

Prove in what way exactly?

There's a lot of ways to prove something.

According to Einstein, the universe is everything, meaning that there's 'nothing', not even time outside of the universe.

So what're you saying is that core has existed since forever(since God doesn't exist)? And it suddenly explodes?

It violating the Second law of thermodynamics.

Look, the universe(time, space, ect) had a beginning is exactly what it means. Meaning that before the beginning, it doesn't exist.

Do you even read Hawking? .

If the universe have existed since forever, then according to the second law of thermodynamics, the universe should be diluted as hell(everywhere is the same temperature, state of disorder, ect)

Jesus existed.

Jesus preached he was God made flesh.

Jesus could only have been:
- Knowingly lying
- Utterly deluded
- Correct

Nothing indicates Jesus was knowingly lying, as he was a pretty good person in all respects and indeed lived what he preached.

Nothing indicates Jesus was utterly deluded, as everything he preached was adopted by our civilization as its moral foundations. None of that could have been reasonably born out of delusion.

So Jesus could only have been correct. Therefore, he was God made flesh, therefore the Christian God exists.

>Nothing indicates Jesus was knowingly lying, as he was a pretty good person in all respects and indeed lived what he preached.
>"Jesus was good so he wasn't lying, and he wasn't lying because he was good"
>implying this isn't a textbook definition of circular reasoning
>Nothing indicates Jesus was utterly deluded, as everything he preached was adopted by our civilization as its moral foundations. None of that could have been reasonably born out of delusion.
>implying that none of this was forced, for instance by Emperor Constatine, and that the pagan traditions weren't forcefully removed
>mfw

How deluded can a single group of people be

Then you explain why you think Jesus was a liar. What did he have to gain? He was murdered for his opinions.

It's either Jesus is a God, or he's a liar.

But why can't he just be a righteous prophet of God?

You haven't disproved islam though.

>Jesus wasn't deluded. He couldn't have been wrong, because lots of people believed him!
>There's never been a case where millions of people believed in something for centuries that was later proven to be false!
>Unsound ideologies and religions are never successful!
Lewis's trilemma is one of the absolute WEAKEST common arguments for the divinity of Jesus and the veracity of the Bible.

It has so many flaws, and they're so glaring, I could probably find moderately clever four-year-olds who'd be able to poke holes in it.

>What did he have to gain?

If he hadn't been murdered and if there had been his version of God ruling reality, he would've been king of an Israel free of Roman influence. That seems like a pretty good price

Anyway, he was neither of those, he was an apocalyptic self-professed prophet who, in the face of huge turmoil in 1st century Israel, competed with the Zealots, the Essenes, the Sadducees and the Pharisees for religious influence to turn Israel into a theocracy. His movement failed, he was killed, and Paul later picked up the pieces and turned his failed movement into Christianity. Nothing supernatural about that

Jesus teaches that authority is not something to be desired though.
He tells disciples they shall not be as the gentiles who elect governing officials, but shall be as servants to mankind.

>Meaning that before the beginning, it doesn't exist.
Why couldn't it be cyclical? Why couldn't there be some random stuff before the start? We don't have no data on the time.

>So what're you saying is that core has existed since forever(since God doesn't exist)? And it suddenly explodes?
That's the best theory we have, famalini. Do you have evidence for another one?

>Look, the universe(time, space, ect) had a beginning is exactly what it means.
Why are you so sure about that?

>Jesus teaches that authority is not something to be desired though.

No, Paul's interpretation of Jesus tells us that

>cyclical
It will violate the Second law of thermodynamics. It different from the cyclical of butterflies because that cyclical took useful energy from the surrounding. While the universe cyclical can't because the universe itself is everything, meaning there's nothing outside of it.

>do you have another one?
No, what I mean to say is that if the core itself has existed since forever(since God doesn't exist, according to you), it will violate the Second law of thermodynamics.

>why am I sure?
Because , but this is not the case.

>It will violate the Second law of thermodynamics.

And? The idea that human models will never be debunked sounds like the height of scientism

Where did you learned statistical physics?

Cycles stop because their energy dillutes out of system. If we assume that no energy can escape, the cycle can be endless.

>it will violate the Second law of thermodynamics
it won't

dS/dt>=0

You're leaning pretty hard on the laws of physics. You should remember that before the creation of the universe there is no reason to assume any of those laws were applicable.

Bruh, there's a difference between useful energy and useless energy.

In a close system like the universe, the total energy inside it is the sum of useful and useless energy.

Cycle use useful energy and turn it into useless energy. If there's not enough useful energy, then the cycle cannot happen.

And this is applied to the universe as well.

The universe is right now is ds/dt>0. If the whole system is diluted(which the universe is not), then ds/dt=0.

It not a human model. It's a law. An unbroken law. Like my genital.

It have not been proven yet. All of the universe right now follow the same law. What you're saying right now are all just 'intelectual masturbation' of theoretical physicists.

Again, if the universe really is cyclical, then it would have meant that useless energy can turn into useful energy, in order for the universe to cycle forever and ever.

BUT, it's IMPOSSIBLE to turn useless energy into useful energy.

>In a close system like the universe, the total energy inside it is the sum of useful and useless energy.
What? I don't think you can apply such terms as useful and useless energy on universe. How do you think should the "useless energy" look like? Why couldn't there be multiple cycles before the pendulum breaks?

Why can't there be ds/dt=0 during the the core era? When black hole has the highest possible entropy of any known system.

>It not a human model. It's a law. An unbroken law.
Not really, its human model based on statistics. All physical laws are human models based on observation of certain phenomena, that are not always able to be extrapolated on all phenomena.

>are all just 'intelectual masturbation' of theoretical physicists
Yet the masturbation has still more merit than blaming it on gods.

>why couldn't there be multiple pendulum cycles?
Because of air resistance. The perfect system is just a myth because of third party interference(frictions,medium,ect).

>ds/dt=0 during core era
I don't get what you mean. The core era IS very low in entropy. But that doesn't mean that it can became low again.

According to second law of thermodynamics, the entropy can only move forward.

>*something something* human model
No, it's not a model. It's a law. A good model is like a theory which explains a lot of things(may not all) and agree with most observation(not all).

A law is a law. It's an axiom.

>*something something* law of physics is different during the core era
You atheist are no different from religion people to use that excuse as the religion people use God as a 'convenience' excuse.

If you say that, then we can believe anything during the core era, which violate the principle of logic itself.

>Because of air resistance.
So pendulum can never swing more than one time due to air resistance? Thats some hardcore German physics, you got there animeman. Also what are the third party interference to universe?

>The core era IS very low in entropy.
Prove it

>According to second law of thermodynamics, the entropy can only move forward.
Which contradicts many cosmologic models. Just as quantum theory is not perfectly compatible with theory of relativity. We are not perfect beings user.

>No, it's not a model. It's a law.
Law my arse. The physical laws known to man get rewritten from time to time.

>You atheist are no different from religion people to use that excuse as the religion people use God as a 'convenience' excuse.
So I come to phenomenom I can't explain using normal human knowledge. Should I think out of the box and invent new theories until one fits or just say lolmagic and worship it?