Traditionalism

>Leaving the text aside, the images fill in a missing gap: capitalism’s breadlines are bad because what they offer is impersonal, “cookie cutter,” and lacking in flavor, tradition, nature, and even nutrition. Food isn’t food. The bread on the capitalist breadline is filled with ingredients that do us harm.

>“Tradition” here means humanity, an elevation of the person. Recipes were handed down over generations. Mothers taught daughters to cook, fathers taught sons to fish, hunt, defend himself, his family, and so on. It is community. You eat bread with those you love. With bread made in a kiln you can taste the grain, the soil, and the fire. It feeds the soul, not just the stomach (which is why it is still sold in the more expensive bakeries in large cities, even though cheap bread is available on every corner, virtually.)

Is it true, Veeky Forums? Nothing beats freshly made bread.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism
youtube.com/watch?v=IdDfF4hXfj4
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

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But, imagine if you had to do everything by yourself. If you are not qualified at everything, many of your essential belongings would be terrible, like the roofing, the plumbing, your clothing, the shape of the screws used to assemble your heating unit... And if you tried acquiring the practical knowledge to do all of these things right, it would take a lifetime of back-breaking work. Did I mention agriculture and medicine ?

>not being in a technocracy
Fags

Freshly made bread tastes good. Why does the simple capitalistic principle that better tasting bread costs more seem less likely than that freshly baked bread feeds your soul?

Funny thing is, its ussually the leftists who make their bread.

People learned from their family and community.

>the sponge dogshit mass produced American "bread"
I'd rather eat nothing than that.

A principle which can't be applied to today's large and turbulent society.

Okay lets take best case scenario
>OP managed to build his own wooden house that holds, rots down only once every two years, can withstand 5mph wind, figured out how to build basic tools, how to grow crops, how to pasture animals, how to care about animals, he learned healing properties of flora, he learned basic medicine, he learned to spot dangerous animals/insect, he learned how to clean his own water, learned how to make fire, how to maintain fire, he learned how to supply for winter, he also got pretty damn ripped
>died year later on flu

Traditionalism sure sounds mighty fine

Who's "their?" If you mean the subjects of the picture, the point is the majority of people took care of their own needs. If you mean a modern elite, they are firmly entrenched in liberalism and aren't traditionalist in the slightest, even if they aren't "leftist" (the political nature of liberalism being dubious at best , liberals sitting on the left of the French parliament and being the original left wing).

Not OP, but generally it's the community that helps you with this sort of shit. I grew up in a village and people helped each other all the time.

Note that by community I mean your immidiate neighbors, not the government or the service sector.

What's meant by 'traditionalism' though? In more exact terms than 'not these things I don't like'.

Like living in cottages and hamlets again? Going without electricity? Is traditionalism inherently opposed to urban living?

So you would prefer to rely on people's morality based purely on their emotions, rather than on cold steady hand of law?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism

crypto national socialism, and don't expect a concise or clear answer from OP

Yeah. I mean I experienced both ways - cold and steady means spiritually dead.

Just pointing out one trend of the modern middle class and the fact the traditional principles you speak of are not often championed by people who could be called traditionalists or even conservatives.

youtube.com/watch?v=IdDfF4hXfj4

Houses build in tradiotional methods are still standing after 100 years built by the people who actually have to live in them and honed thru thousands of years of experience and passed on knowledge. Houses build by capitalism are built by disinterested contractors in cheapest way possible to save costs and fall apart in 20 years due to planned obsolescense.

>planned obsolescense

How much pleasure did you derive from using this meme? I figure it's not a meme move that you're often able to set up in real life.

There is nothing wrong with being spiritually dead

t. Satan

This. It's a paradigm.

It would be lovely to go back but we can't, this is escapism on your part, you're actually retreating from life. The best thing to do is take what was good from those days, try to blend it with today's world, that will take enormous effort that will be unlikely supported by others for some time.

I recommend you read Together by Richard Sennet (if you could bring yourself to read a book by a *gasp* left-leaning sociologist.)

Being spiritually alive means that you throw half of your harvest into a pit in the name of Big Purple Spoon.

Being spiritually dead means you stop doing useless rituals and start focusing on reality, which brought us all the scientific progress in last three hundred years.

>useless rituals

Lol dumb faggot is not even aware of the existence of magic. You're literally an animal. The part that once made you human has been cut out.

That's Transhumanism. Technocracy is a political system (a way to conceive the administration of society).

National socialism was a modern ideology.

Being spiritually dead is throwing away meaningful, useless rituals because you're too much of a reductionistic materialist to understand their purpose beyond immediate appearances.


Gods above you lot are dense

>Gods above you lot are dense

The minute someone thinks "I'd rather be doing other things than making my own bread" you have division of labor and with a system of currency we reach the state we're in today.

What you're advocating for seems to resemble the Amish and if that's the case, then I wish you luck. I can't imagine you'll make much of a dent.

>meaningful, useless rituals

>Gods above you lot are dense


>neopagans

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I live in a capitalist country and pay to eat good quality bread with decent ingredients. Unless you live in some absolute shithole, I can't imagine this would be difficult for you either.

What you're proposing is a kind of ridiculous regression you'd feel stupid for even contemplating after 30 minutes reading about the division of labour.

The division of labour means specialisation to such a high degree that you can have unbelievable goods such as computers and central heating. If everyone goes back to doing everything for themselves, making bread, farming small plots, making and repairing clothes, we'll be blasted back several centuries as no one has the time or means to produce anything remotely complex. Who is going to make automobiles when they'll die if the field isn't tilled?

Ironically it's only a life of complete comfort where bread has always been available that's led to you being retarded enough to suggest that "da old dayz were betta". If every day you'd lived was the struggle that the system you're endorsing forced upon the people of the past, the life you actually lead would appear to be a fantastical nirvana.

Absolute nonsense. To call this """contribution""" mindless speculation would be flattery.

Both of you are ideologues.
There are legitimate concerns about our current relationship to technology and how it is impacting us. There's nothing categorically incorrect about suggesting that man was better off before certain inventions, it's been thought for thousands of years.

> Made your own bread
> Make your own butter
> Made your own computer
> Made your own medicine
You would be forced to give up personalization of your life sooner or later.

>itt /pol/ pretends to be Veeky Forums

>OP has clearly never made bread themselves before and has no idea how ridiculously long it takes just to make even two loaves.

>OP doesn't consider the incredible economic inefficiency and soul-draining tediousness of DIYing everything in the "traditionalist" sense, particularly when it comes to hunting and fishing for your own food, an activity that amounts to incredibly inefficient subsistence farming if done regularly.

>OP forgets that it is possible for homemade bread to taste bad or be just as poisonous to you as mass-produced bread

>sticking to a singular "-ism" and not mixing in all the practical ideas for optimal livelihood

>OP thinks all of these "-isms" in the pic are mutually exclusive, in spite of multiple historical examples of all of them existing simultaneously to some degree or another

tl;dr fuck off, /pol/tarded ideologue

>There are legitimate concerns about our current relationship to technology and how it is impacting us
Share them then.

>it's been thought for thousands of years.
So has astrology, is this meant to be compelling?

Your post's contribution to this thread is that of the guy who interrupts a discussion to say "dude no one's right dude, let's just get along and try to understand each other and smoke weed, don't have strong opinions dudes". Being vague and not saying anything does not elevate you above the discussion.

There wasn't anything in the post I replied to which compelled anything stronger.

If you're too stupid to know some concerns about technology then I'd rather just withdraw from the conversation than hold your hand.

>Rambles about everyone being an ideologue
>Doesn't develop the conversation beyond some vague drivel about old beliefs being more valid
Then:
>Asked to actually contribute something
>"N-no w-why don't you look it up yourself I'm n-not a teacher"

You have the "self-satisfied vacous nihilist teenager" playbook down to a fine art, friend. Does it impress your schoolfriends?

I don't know why you're so triggered. I saw a dialectic and resolved it. Keep on the march towards your overly-simplified pole if that's what makes you happy. You just shouldn't be surprised when it doesn't really present a challenge or even an interesting thought to others.

>food analogy + self explanatory image
i want simple minded people to leave

>I saw a dialectic and resolved it
Hahahahahaha, cheers Hegel. Fucking hell, I was not prepared for you to pull that one out.

So if a country switches to traditionalism, what would prevent another country to invade and enslave the traditionalists?

I don't want to make my own bread, of pump my own water, of weave my own clothes. I should be able to buy and receive those without any effort, nice and alienated.

Country full of alphas ready to defend their fatherland?

>simple minded
That's not a bad thing. Simplicity is fantastic.

>eat good quality bread with decent ingredients
I hope you're not living in America because in that case top kek.

This nigga gets it.

>Plebs

Probably not since he ruled out absolute shitholes.

Not being retarded about it and maintaining some modern technology for defence, of course.

What does it even mean beyond "new=bad" though?

ITT: No one makes an argument for traditionalism

It's shit.

That's a bad meme. You could replace traditionalism for anarcho-whatever and it would still make sense.

Traditionalism should be
>where your wife makes bread for the family

>all bakers were female
Kys

>doesn't comprehend op's post
>"Tradition” here means humanity, an elevation of the person.

Read the thread harder, than kys.

^
T H I S
H
I
S

Bet you felt smart typing that up

>Sole proprietorships in the 18th century were unenjoyable.

You are a dingus

Traditionalist thinking is counterproductive to the military. It makes you predictable and slow to adapt, therefore weak.

Not to mention you can´t just "maintain some technology" but steadily invest and modernize the army if you aim to survive without a superpower backing your arse.

I'm talking homemade bread retard.

That is actually a good argument against Traditionalism. It also will tend to perform poorly economically, seeing as it is against usury and the freemarket in general. Fascism with its comination of tradition and modernity is where it's at.

>“Tradition” here means humanity, an elevation of the person.

Pretty much every modern ideology stakes a claim at being truly humane. It takes more than just saying so to demonstrate that yours goes further or does better.

>Recipes were handed down over generations. Mothers taught daughters to cook, fathers taught sons to fish, hunt, defend himself, his family, and so on.

Funny enough, mothers and fathers do this under socialism and capitalism too.

>Is it true, Veeky Forums? Nothing beats freshly made bread.

"Muh bread" is not a politics. What has bread got to do with the basic-bitch fascism virtually all """traditionalists""" are pushing?

>against usury and the freemarket in general.
Not inherently. In Britain for example it would be against neither. Since Brits traditionally practiced both.

& Humanities was a mistake. Christcucks pls keep religion out of my politics and I'll stop pointing out logical fallacies and absurdities in faith.

Alpha/beta bullshit doesn't mean anything when one country has a strong industrialized social core and the other spends its days making its own bread and butter in log cabins lmao. The traddies would be steamrolled.

Imagine going to war with the amish right now.

>Funny enough, mothers and fathers do this under socialism and capitalism too.

Out of wedlock births, divorced families , and a generally nigger tier society proves you live in a fantasy world. Enjoy your fake food and unhappy meaningless life being a wagecuck

>What is Franco's Spain?
>What is Salazar Portugal?
>What is Japan?

>Fascism with its comination of tradition and modernity is where it's at.

Fascism was an attempt of Europeans to control change instead of being controlled by it.

You're confusing traditionalism with primitivism.

Why would contry full of alphas, ready to defend their fatherland, give a fuck about some traditionalistic shithole?

>Out of wedlock births, divorced families , and a generally nigger tier society proves you live in a fantasy world

t. has never even listened to actual traditional music, or if so, doesn't know what getting ones' ashes hauled meant. People were running around doing drugs and shooting each other for having affairs a hundred years ago. Literally nothing has changed.

>Literally nothing has changed.

I know plenty of elderly people and have read plenty of first hand accounts. Things have changed drastically.

>Not being retarded about it and maintaining some modern technology for defence, of course.
good luck paying for that army with your shitty cottage industry. There are people who "make their own bread" and they are called fucking hippies. Nobody's stopping you from joining them.

Do you not know the difference between traditionalism as a paradigm versus being a Luddite?

I thought the typical complaint with Japan was that they were ultra-modern and have fucked up social dynamics because of it. They sure as shit aren't traditional in an economic sense.

Luddite bakes his bread in clay oven and traditionalist bakes his bread in modern automatic bread-oven 4000PY+?

>>What is Franco's Spain?
They had shops with bread, as well as industrial industry

>>What is Salazar Portugal?
likewise

>>What is Japan?
double likewise

Also, Spain and Portugal were incompetent poorfag shitholes, and Japan is literally the last country on earth that is "full of alphas ready to defend their fatherland"

Yeah, most of us don't fucking beat our kids anymore, and more of us can read. This is good. But arguing people didn't have kids out of wedlock, or families didn't break up, shows complete ignorance of how early modern societies actually behaved.

The point is you know little between traditionalism an an ideal. All those nations have or had traditional aspects, which are good.

Your the one who's so out of touch you think nothing has changed. Pathetic discourse. Sad!

Not an argument.

>Do you not know the difference between traditionalism as a paradigm versus being a Luddite?
The post I was replying to heavily implies that there is a lot of industry going to be scrapped.

Besides, traditionalism without Luddism is a fantasy.

>what is clerical fascism
>what is Archeo-futurism

I think the point is the effect these systems have on people. Life is not solely about economics, I mean you can go to /r9k/ right now and find people with medical care, food and entertainment that not even a medieval lord had who are socially alienated and miserable.

...

>The point is you know little between traditionalism an an ideal.
I'm not the same user as before

>All those nations have or had traditional aspects, which are good.
Every nation has or had traditional aspects, some of which are good and some are bad.

Your half right . Archeo-futurism is fantasy, clerical fascism was a reality. The point is it can be done both hypothetically and tangibly.

>>what is clerical fascism
fantasy

>>what is Archeo-futurism
fantasy

Clerical fascism would have won had it not been for national socialism hijacking the fascist movement. Honestly poor history knowledge on a history board. Sad! Low energy!

If it had won it would have failed as spectacularly.

Protip: regular fascism is fucking wishful thinking on a grand scale too.

>Honestly poor history knowledge on a history board. Sad! Low energy!
go back to red dit you child

>Traditionalism
Bullshit "ideology" ( not really because you don't actually believe in it, so called traditionalists pick and choose which traditions they want to follow ) that taken to it's pure conclusion means never leaving the hunter gatherer stage.

>
Nothing wrong with hanging on to traditions user. Not the same as desiring a return to hunter-gather society. But I guess strawmanning is easier than thinking.

>Nothing wrong with hanging on to traditions user.
There are many reasons why certain traditions are undesirable, based on a number of factors.

> Not the same as desiring a return to hunter-gather society.
No but most of the arguments for traditionalism are about as strong as those for anarcho-primitivism.

> But I guess strawmanning is easier than thinking.
I think you need to look up what strawmanning means.