How much better off would the middle east (and by extension...

People who live close to one another look the same. No, Ashkenazi are not related to Abraham or Moses and more than I am.

>No, Ashkenazi are not related to Abraham or Moses and more than I am.
Abraham and Moses are mythical figures so I'm not related to them in the same way as Swedes are not related to Odin. I am related to the people that wrote the stories about them and to the later more historical figures of 900bc-1000bc and onwards.
>People who live close to one another look the same.
I don't see how this can be seen as a counter argument to the genetic studies that find that Ashkenazi are a subgroup of Jews.

Jews cause trouble wherever they go. The problems caused by Jews aren't limited to where their state is, it's also about their influence of US foreign policy, their pathological hatred of Christianity and Christian culture, and their overenthusiasm for anti-Christian immorality in the media.

¨>let's deny them their ancestral homeland cause "muh geopolitics"
>next we can put all the Chechens in South America or the Armenians in Australia
good thing you dumb whiteys are doing the opposite and are slowly relocating all arabs to Europe

Maybe you Americans should leave the New World, it belongs to the original natives after all. Might as well go back to the Pontic steppe, because Europe belongs to the Paleo-Europeans

>you Americans
I ain't part of that apartheid state.

#BLM

I never got this. Israel is an artificial nation that had not existed in any way shape or form for like 2000 years. Even the fucking language was deliberately and unnaturally reintroduced for sentimental reasons.

The Jews are basically LARPing as their ancestors. It'd be like if some Romaboo suddenly declared the EU to be the Roman Empire and demaded Latin become the official language.

They made things needlessly complicated and the amazing thing is like 2 generations later people completely accept that it was the right and sensible thing to do to just slap a Jewish state in the middle east arbitrarily after 2000 years.

If the Aztecs were able to reestablish a small independent 1st world state in part of Mexicos territory it would be historically incorrect to call them foreign colonisers and artificial state that should be destroyed to make Mexico bigger. So I don't get how your comparison serves the point you are trying to make.

The modern jews themselves aren't descended from Jews in the old testament, but the decedents of European converts.

>It'd be like if some Romaboo suddenly declared the EU to be the Roman Empire and demaded Latin become the official language.

yes please

t. John musempabemba

>"christian morality"
lmao

You seem to bent on repeating that claim even though it's not consistent with modern research.

>Like most DNA studies of human migration patterns, the earliest studies on Ashkenazi Jews focused on the Y-DNA and mtDNA segments of the human genome. Both segments are unaffected by recombination (except for the ends of the Y chromosome – the pseudoautosomal regions known as PAR1 and PAR2), thus allowing tracing of direct maternal and paternal lineages.

>These studies revealed that Ashkenazi Jews originate from an ancient (2000 BCE - 700 BCE) population of the Middle East who had spread to Europe. Ashkenazic Jews display the homogeneity of a genetic bottleneck, meaning they descend from a larger population whose numbers were greatly reduced but recovered through a few founding individuals. Although the Jewish people, in general, were present across a wide geographical area as described, genetic research done by Gil Atzmon of the Longevity Genes Project at Albert Einstein College of Medicine suggests "that Ashkenazim branched off from other Jews around the time of the destruction of the First Temple, 2,500 years ago ... flourished during the Roman Empire but then went through a 'severe bottleneck' as they dispersed, reducing a population of several million to just 400 families who left Northern Italy around the year 1000 for Central and eventually Eastern Europe."

This claim is baseless, however this:
Is not entirely correct either. Zionist attempts to misuse genetics have done this repeatedly. You'll notice that they're using only the sex chromosomes and then trying to pretend it's the whole genome that supports their conclusion. Even worse, they don't mention that their cherrypicked theory only works with the Y chromosome - the Xes show more European.

This is how new arrivals always work. It's entirely unsurprising: The arriving group tends to be mostly male and take local wives. Both invaders and refugees have populations with genetics like this. Happens all the time.

Anyway, a full genome comparison is easy to do and has been done. Ashkenazi Jews not only have a lot of Levantine Y/native X going on, but also are a genetic mixture throughout the rest of their genome also.

As I keep saying, this is how every immigrant group is after a few generations. And European Jews have been in Europe for almost two thousand years.

>And European Jews have been in Europe for almost two thousand years.
Oops. I meant to say: German Jews, almost 2000, etc.

There's actually no clear record when Jews first showed up in Europe. Jews have been living in Greece for longer than we have reliable records for.

The genetic studies you mention are done by Israeli institutions as well so ''zionusts'' don't conceal this at all. It's a know fact that the maternal line includes admixtures. We just don't see anything wrong with that. Judaism is not about racial purity and belonging to an ethno cultural group dose not preclude marring and bringing in others. King's David grandmother is famously a convert.
The question is whether the wifes embrace your culture and join your community e.g convert or are you the one who looses your identity. In this case the Jewish identity was dominant enough to preserve a clear ethnic and cultural identity. Untill such point in time when the last of the empires that controlled our ancestral land has collapsed and the age of nation states resumed. Israel is hardly the only ancient nation that regain its place in the international stage in the 19-20 centuries. This was also achived by other nations that preserved their identity like Greeks, Georgians, Armenians and to lesser extent Italians and many other less ancient once.
Picrelated is in most probability a bust of Josephus from 80 AD. He looks like an average Israeli Jew.

You (like all European "Jews") the son of an Italian and a Turk who has next to zero claim to Palestine historically.

Jews - sephardi, ashkenazi and mizrahi are thoroughly levantine though. ashkenazi and sephardi don't cluster anywhere near their former local host populations. Autosomally, not just via haplogroups.

You can criticize Israel without believing in conspiracies about jews not actually being jews.

His criticism is based on the assumption that jews are not jews and therefore are foreign colonizers. If it doesn't hold water he can just repeat it several times anyway.

I've found a better place for them.

The funny thing is that the Soviets created a so called "jewish oblast" in the far east.

However both times Stalin ended up genociding/oppressing the population so while it still exists like 0.2% of the population is jewish today.

Do you think that america would suck their dick if that was the case? Would Uganda be the center of american foreign policy?

Probably, but at least instead of blowing up US destroyers they would just be shooting down US planes.

>mfw the Second Congo War would be Israel and Rwanda vs half of Africa
>mfw they'd win

Should have given Australia to the Jews

It would be very shitty though.

>The Jews are basically LARPing as their ancestors.

Its fucking impressing and a rolemodel.
With the energy the jews had the cornish people would be independent and known as Gaelic intermarian union of Kernow and the Bretagne.

>tfw when no aztec independent first world state today.

If a Jewish state had been created in Africa, I fail to see how that would change the dependence that the US has on oil. I'd think that the Americans would have wandered their way into the middle-east regardless of where the Jews were out.

Are those....eggs...CHICKEN EGGS?!

No, they'd be turkey eggs.

>Judaism is not about racial purity
Now you're moving the goal posts. If your blood, tongue, and religion are not Levantine Jewish then what claim do you have?

I'm not Jewish. Who were you replying to?

>Jews - sephardi, ashkenazi and mizrahi are thoroughly levantine though. ashkenazi and sephardi don't cluster anywhere near their former local host populations. Autosomally, not just via haplogroups.

You're exaggerating the clarity of the genetic data. Nonetheless, I think what evidence and analysis we do have makes it clear that they're a mix between the Eastern Med and Europe. I'm not a geneticist myself, but the evidence in this section confirms that intermediate genetic profile: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Autosomal_DNA

>You can criticize Israel without believing in conspiracies about jews not actually being jews.
>His criticism is based on the assumption that jews are not jews and therefore are foreign colonizers. If it doesn't hold water he can just repeat it several times anyway.
No, my claim is that the recent arrivals to Israel are not *Levantine* Jews. And as such have no claim to any part of the Levant.

You don't see me saying that "my language and ancient religion were oppressed by the HRE, so now I get to ethnically cleanse the Germs out of Saxony and establish an English-speaking cosplay kingdom there." It's a pretty good parallel. *Genetically*, Brits are almost unchanged despite the change in language from Brittonic -> Germanic. And besides I've been in America for 400+ years so I really have no claim on any other home.

How much better would the

You just repeat the claim that ashkenazi jews are not jews and not levintine by posting a link to a wikipedia page that disproves your own argument
Quoting from your source:
>Both Ashkenazi Jews as well as Sephardic Jews showed >85% membership in the "southern" group. Referring to the Jews clustering with southern Europeans, the authors state the results were "consistent with a later Mediterranean origin of these ethnic groups".

>A 2007 study by Bauchet et al. found that Ashkenazi Jews were most closely clustered with Arabic North African populations when compared to the global population of that study. In the European structure analysis, they share genetic similarities with Greeks and Sicilians, reflecting their east Mediterranean origins.

Than you say
>If your blood, tongue and religion are not levantine Jewish athan what claim do you have
Disregarding the fact that I do claim exactly that and unlike you support it with sources

Than you bring in ethnic cleansing which was not ever mentioned in any argument because somehow different people can't have a claim to a geographical area without ethnically cleansing each other?

But this is where its starts to be clear that your just baiting
>Brits are almost unchanged

Who the fuck are the saxon and the normans then?

By this point it's clear that you either developed your own consistent alternative history theory or just argue for the sake of appearance, because you dislike the idea of losing an internet argument.

I dont think it would matter much for the geo political issues of the middle east. muslim have been killing each other for much years and by a greater extened then the Israel - Arab states wars will ever be.
i will ask you this, do you think that if for some reason the palestinians will get the israeli terretory there will be peace?
no, they just find other reasons to kill and wage war on each other. if anything, the only thing that the Arabs nations have in common is their "hatered" for israel

>ancestral homeland
Nice meme.
No such a thing exist, it stops being your homeland the moment you don't leave in it anymore. Your ancestors of 2000 years ago have literally nothing to do with you except maybe a few genes.

>It doesn't exist because I said so

>no reasons given
wow real nice discussing with you

Well you're the one that claims that a concept that exists as a strong historic and cultural force across different cultures doesn't exist. So you should prove your claim and not me.

not when there's a 2000 year gap
that's just ridiculous

You and your ancestor are 2 different people just because he lived in country A doesn't mean that country A is your home despite you being born and live in country B.
and the guy you replied to isn't me.

Not that guy but if you think the Anglo/Saxon/Jutish or Norman invasions changed the genetic makeup of Britain even slightly I'm gonna think you don't have a clue what you are talking about and just take the other guys word for it

Good post, nice try at English.

There should have just not been a Jewish nation at all. Cultural assimilation should be encouraged.

That what Jews tried
Still got 'causted.

That's because they were already against them to being with and anti-Semitism was all the rage between European nationalists. Kinda like Africans hating Indians ad screaming there's an Indian conspiracy to fuck up Africa as whole.

You actually made me doubt myself for a moment, but nahh

>In a widely cited article through DNA testing, Weale et al. (2002) argued that the Y DNA data showed signs of a racial "apartheid" in Anglo-Saxon England. The signatures of Germanic influx to England is now widely accepted and has been shown in other studies, such as Capelli et al. (2003). The Capelli study, with higher sample numbers, gave much lower frequencies of "Germanic" genetic markers in England than did Weale. They describe such markers as typically ranging between 20% and 40%, with York forming an outlier at 60%.

>A study into the Norwegian Viking ancestry of British people found that there is evidence of particular concentrations in several areas; especially in Lowland and Eastern Scotland - and the North Sea islands Shetland and Orkney, Western Scotland and the Western Isles including Skye in Scotland, Anglesey in Wales, the Isle of Man and the Wirral, Mid-Cheshire, West Lancashire and Cumbria in England

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_the_British_Isles?wprov=sfla1

The last major Jewish attemt to regain independence was 1300 years ago and the last major depopulation was during the crusades
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_revolt_against_Heraclius?wprov=sfla1
In any case, your subjective feelings are not an argument. Perhaps try to formulate a moralistic reason of why a nation that was ethnically cleansed should be denied the right of self determination and be doomed to either dissapear or continue to wonder around without a homeland, getting kicked around and depending on kindness of others. The fact that the nation has an older claim to the place can easily be construed as giving more claim, not less. That's how most land laws work.

>It'd be like if some Romaboo suddenly declared
Hello Mussolini

What ate you nonsensically going on about Africa and Indians?

Also I'm pretty sure Jews don't want to take those chances in Europe.

>continue to wonder around without a homeland,
Are we still talking about the jews of Israel? Because these guys are europeans, their home were in countries such as France,Germany etc. Countries where they actually lived and where they were citizens. They(the people who came in Israel when it was created) don't have any claim on a land they have never been in, never saw, never lived in. Their ancestors had legitimate claims over the land of Israel but not their descendants who spent the last thousand years in Europe

They should be sent to South Africa, the place is already a mess and the original habitants have already been genocided so no one can really claim it.

>You just repeat the claim that ashkenazi jews are not jews
Slander. Ignored.

>Quoting from your source:
>Both Ashkenazi Jews as well as Sephardic Jews showed >85% membership in the "southern" group. Referring to the Jews clustering with southern Europeans, the authors state the results were "consistent with a later Mediterranean origin of these ethnic groups".
Read that again. If your native language isn't English - or if it is, but you're not good with scientific English/bio/genetics/etc - then maybe you don't realize that they're talking about Ashkenazis and Sephardis being 85% similar to southern *Europeans*.

>You actually made me doubt myself for a moment, but nahh
Again, if you're not scientifically literate in population genetics then you're not going to understand this kind of stuff. This evidence shows that Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and Normans all left a noticeable sign in British genetics. As that evidence shows, it's a small amount except in York, which is unsurprising given the history of York.

>In any case, your subjective feelings are not an argument. Perhaps try to formulate a moralistic reason of why a nation that was ethnically cleansed should be denied the right of self determination and be doomed to either dissapear or continue to wonder around without a homeland, getting kicked around and depending on kindness of others.
The irony is hilarious.

>The fact that the nation has an older claim to the place can easily be construed as giving more claim, not less. That's how most land laws work.
That's exactly how *no one's* laws work. Current resident has precedence after a certain amount of time. ("Certain amount of time" to allow the owner to re-invade their own home and kick the criminal out. If they aren't going to do so, they lose that right. Israel never came back to kick the Eastern Roman Empire out.)

OP here, what you asked is something I've also kept in consideration, which is why I've raised the question to begin with. I've got nothing against the Palestinian or Israeli people, but it seems like the UK was throwing gas on a fire by moving the Jewish refugees into an already somewhat hostile territory.

Much better off
However the jews would never admit that nor would they stand for anything other than that area of Palestine

They would have been better off literally anywhere else in the world

>the original habitants have already been genocided so no one can really claim it.

That's bullshit. They still exist and Coloreds are still a big population and the Bantu speaking populace are still there.

The Jews wanted Israel no ifs and or buts and Palestine was in unique situation that made it possible.