Since Quantum Mechanics destroys the materialistic theory of a "mechanical"...

You won't perceive events at that scale and the repercussions are negligible to you - anything that you can see won't have it's movement, form, or any other observable trait or circunstance about it be affected by quantum mechanics.

Why assume it's external, rather than simply a property of the universe. Why assume it's purposeful, rather than accidental.

Even if this was proven to exist why would you assume it must be the being worshipped in Abrahamic religions?

Yes I can, I spent 7 today hours studying QM. You didn't.

Do you even know how does Shroedinger equation work?

Tomas Campbell has a bunch of youtube videos about this. He wrote a book about it, argues that materialism is bullshit and we exist as consciousnesses within a game who will live on after death. Interesting

Its a cat who is alive and dead in a box, right?

>conscious
>force

Do you talk with these forces often?

>deliberately
Why do you assume this?

>Its a cat who is alive and dead in a box, right?

Yup, I was trying to make my own zombie-kitty.

Well who else would it be? Vishnu?

Quantum mechanics merely proves the existence of a deity. We can prove that deity is Yahweh through philosophical reasoning, historical study, and the mere endurance of the Abrahamic traditions.

You niggers don't have any idea what the cause is and 'conscious force' is just as viable as whatever deterministic or causal force you want to exist.

>inb4 We're just being skeptical, we know that we don't really have the answer

If his hypothesis didn't smack of God you wouldn't have said shit, you obviously have a bias against a prime mover. Stop pretending objectivity when you're really rooting for a team, jackasses

No you didn't. It's Sunday, and a holiday in any country that's not a total shithole.

Do you think you can just lie on the internet and get away with it?

A Kashmir Shaivite could probably make a more compelling case than that.

> Implying hindu religions aren´t older

>We can prove that deity is Yahweh through philosophical reasoning, historical study
Such as?

This.

>derails thread to avoid fact that 'Scientific" proof of non-material realm becomes closer each day.

Such as QM proves the existence of a deity.

Because you can lear all that shite in one day before the test, right?

You do not have a fucking clue what you are talking about.

HOW DOES SHROEDINGER'S EQUATION WORK?
DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT AN OPERATOR IS?

>Since Quantum Mechanics destroys the materialistic theory of a "mechanical", self-sustaining universe requiring no outside help

And that deity is Shiva.

Well the force is external, since its future actions can't be predicted based off past data. It can't be accidental, since it's influenced by mere human observation.

Even if the actions don't affect anyone on a daily basis, if it proves there's a God, it shows that he's an active force in our universe. Knowledge of that fact should change how one lives their life.

>that proves that God exists
now i see what you're trying to push user

If everyone else is so ignorant, do you plan on sharing with us what Quantum Mechanics means? Or will you keep boasting about how much you know without backing anything up?

>the mere endurance of Abrahamic traditions

some religion had to become supreme at some point, it doesn't make it the most correct one

Why are you even pretending to be scientific when you operate off of such a retarded premise, sand nomads needed a creed to keep their people in line, nothing more

>he couldn't figure that out from OP's opening

>It can't be accidental, since it's influenced by mere human observation.
What kind of logic is that? Not to mention "human" has nothing to do in there.

>sand nomads needed a creed to keep their people in line, nothing more
Do you have anything to back that claim up?

So how are you going to solve the issues created by delayed choice quantum erasers, faggot?

Materialism is dying a much deserved death. It baffles me that you are this devoted to a death cult metaphysics, try and be happy that consciousness might be eternal

Well if it was merely "accidental" the results of its interactions wouldn't be influenced by mere observation.

While I agree that materialism is bullshit, you're overreaching when you claim this vindicates Christianity. At best it says that consciousness is more fundamental than matter, a nice step but hardly a proof.

>If everyone else is so ignorant
no, only YOU are ignorant. You are drawing conclusions from something thats beyond you ability to comprehend.

>us what Quantum Mechanics means?
Like what, you want me to post the postulates or something?

Yes

>'if you can't explain something simply you don't know it well enough'

You're such a fucking faggot mate. You're obviously on the backfoot and hoping the smoke and mirrors of scientific jargon will save you. Sad news for ya chap: it can't. Materialism is absolutely fucked, as it should be. The fact that a metaphysics that denies consciousness even got off the ground is astounding

What's the opposite of materialism?

The amount of retardation and misinformation in this thread is appalling.

I thought his was supposed to be a smart board.

Idealism, the idea that the entire world is thought. Or rather, that thought is the fundamental substance of existence and the material realm is just a psychological projection.

youtube.com/watch?v=t_RwcGzGurc

This explains the science behind why this may be the case.

>I've added nothing and am going to moralize about how shitty this thread is

Fucking neck yourself mate

>I thought his was supposed to be a smart board.

Is Gnosticism partially vindicated then?

>So how are you going to solve the issues created by delayed choice quantum erasers
I can't its beyond my knowledge. I'm happy when I understand variation theorem.

If you are feel so knowledgable that you can insult people, perhaps you could explain pic related, can you?

Why not? If I remember correctly math behind that would allow for that.

But feel free to proof the uncertainity principle if you wish.

sry famaliny, but Veeky Forums does not support equations
>simons.hec.utah.edu/NewUndergradBook/Chapter1.pdf
Couldn't find Davidov in pdf, but this should do the trick

Yep, partially. There could be no ultimate and omega behind the Demiurge though. Both situations are possible

>Since Quantum Mechanics destroys the materialistic theory of a "mechanical", self-sustaining universe requiring no outside help
Who has been feeding you this quackery?

I took a year of quantum mechanics and nothing of the sort was either stated or implied. Quantum mechanics is simply put about "particles" having wave like aspects, specifically a wave of probability determining the likelihood of being in any particular place at any particular time. Much beyond that and everything becomes quackery, spouted philosophers who don't know much about QM or physicists who have been tenured for too long and start losing themselves in non-physics.

>There is a particle with mass m in one dimesional world
> in Xl there is a infinite energetic barrier
>In x between 0 and l the potential is 0
What is the lowest energy the particle can have?

Until you solve this basic problem, you are just an American fundie spouting nonsense.

There's a politics to science mate, read Thomas Kuhn and get to know paradigm shifts. Now maybe you're right and maybe you're not, but I can guarantee you that without philosophy you're nothing more than a cog in an existing paradigm

correction, so you'll have it easier
> in X=l there is a infinite energetic barrier

>Guys check it out I know math
>Guys
>guys I'm rly fuckin smart right?

Bro you know every fucking tree like the back of your hand but I'm not sure you've even heard of a forest. Stop diverting, delayed choice quantum erasers show that observation can change the past. Pls show me how materialism can deal with this

>Until you solve this basic problem, you are just an American fundie spouting nonsense

gg wp no re. There's no arguing with people who don't even realize that their operating under an ideology

i guess islam was right after all

>I DONT WANT TO READ BOOKS AND STUDY, WIKIPEDIA IS ENOUGH!
>YOU DONT NEED KNOWLEDGE! YOU CAN GOOGLE EVERYTHING!

Oh user, you like a personification of whats wrong with current world. Such a shame christian virtues of the past are gone from minds like of young Americans.

>Well the force is external, since its future actions can't be predicted based off past data.
That doesn't follow. All that we can say is that the future appears to be indeterminated. I don't see why you'd make the leap that there is an outside force determining things.

We can expect human observation to have physical consequences because it is itself a physical process, same as you shoving a glass of water off a table unaware - it's just that the causal relation in the second case is far more clear than in the first. A materialistic model can bind it all together.

Fucking idiot

Idiot fuck

Dude you have NO interest in objective truth. You are looking for a certain answer. Youll find it, stupid fuck, but it wont be true.

samefag

Keep repeating that. Maybe itll come true special Edward.

Besides history you mean?

I'm curious, user, what would be 'right' with the world? What can even be right in a purely materialistic universe? Genuine question

>Youll find it, stupid fuck, but it wont be true.

correction, it might be true

Whats not left or middle.

>objective truth
atheistfags pretending to care about truth. The most platonic concept if ever there was one.

Aaaaaaahahahahahahahhahahahahaaaaaaa ah ah haahahahaaaaa

Says the mother fucking idiot who believes in ancient sand gods. Do you believe satan planted dinos here to trick you?

I think that's closer to the truth than you meant it to be

>and the mere endurance of the Abrahamic traditions.

Hinduism has endured too.

Also Islam might as well be the correct Abrahamic religion. Soo... Whats your point?

Look up the god of the gaps argument, you intellectual infant, and then get back to me.

>Also Islam might as well be the correct Abrahamic religion

quantam theory has proven sharia law. aluh ackbar mutherfucker

>Since Quantum Mechanics destroys the materialistic theory of a "mechanical", self-sustaining universe requiring no outside help
[citation needed]

If anything, it's exactly the opposite. The universe being made up of four fields and twelve particles doesn't leave much room for "outside help".

>[citation needed]

You would know if you had ever opened a book on QM.

I think you've been deluded by the Hollywood version of QM which proves dogs have souls, or what not, by distorting what the term "observer" means in the double slit experiment.

Consciousness does not affect subatomic particles.

Observer, in this context, means interaction. It means you cannot measure a particle without collapsing the wave form, as there's no more fundamental particle with which to detect said. It's akin to measuring the surface of a balloon with a needle - it's gonna pop.

It doesn't matter if the observer is man or machine, conscious or not, it will collapse the wave form. And, in all these experiments, the measure is made by machine. All particle interaction operates this way, and obviously, not all particle interaction is observed.

It's just certain sensationalists take these statements out of context to make things sound more spectacular and mysterious than they are, and then someone else in turn runs off and creates a religion out of it - all based on a simple misnomer.

Similar to how, when we say, "Photons do not experience the passage of time from their perspective." - we do not mean to say that photons actually have a conscious perspective, only that, since they are traveling at the speed of light, they have no passage of time.

Clearly you haven't or you could cite me something.

...But I'll bet you've watched a lot of youtube videos.

Well that, and it's not longer a thing anymore:
phys.org/news/2015-03-particle.html

We beat the whole wave-particle duality thing awhile ago. Hollywood just still playing with old, mistranslated, science, as it makes for better stories.

The angel will get you, whether you're looking or not.

>no u

Nice...

The three posts above you, and the two under you, are all from the samefag

lmfao

So what practical knowledge can your average, scientifically illiterate, Joe Six-pack take from Quantum mechanics?

Should I view the universe as a "self-sustaining" machine? A world without supernatural elements where I only worry about doing what's right?

Or should I stick with Catholicism? Worrying about not only doing what's right, but also having a proper relationship with God?

Serious replies are also welcomed.

What is it with christfags and these retarded attempts to shoehorn GAWD into everything they can imagine?

>Since Quantum Mechanics destroys the materialistic theory of a "mechanical", self-sustaining universe requiring no outside help
It does no such thing. It simply establishes the universe as a foamy, bubbly place as opposed to a rigid and well-defined place.

>no outside help
Indeterminism does not imply outside help.

>has Einstein's theory of relativity (along with most of his work) become completely obsolete?
No, it doesn't, you massive cretin. Relativity was, is and will be an extremely useful theory because it has predictive power for macro level events. This is like saying 'because we know water is just atoms, fluid dynamics is rubbish'.

>Also looking for more books that show how quantum mechanics strongly points to the existence of God. Thanks.
If you wanna learn something, why don't you just pick some random book on QM instead of looking for one that appeals particularly to your idiotic biases and will likely be written by someone who doesn't have a fucking clue what he's talking about, like Deepak Chopra or some other cuntfuck?

Nothing rustles my jimmies more than some fucktard who barely has a grasp on the concept he's talking about proceeding to assume his view is correct and then several asinine logic leaps to get to his friend in the sky.

>Indeterminism does not imply outside help.
One thing I forgot to mention is that the universe is still not necessarily stochastic depending on the interpretation of quantum mechanics you go with.

So, OP, if you think a particular one is true - and there are about ten well-established ones - I'd love to know your reasoning why that one is true and all the others are definitely false.

You all need to get your christian shit out of here. Classical physics can be derived from QM and QM can be derived from classical physics. Also, it has literally nothing to do with god or philosophy. Just because it's considered "mysterious", doesn't give it philosophical value.

>So what practical knowledge can your average, scientifically illiterate, Joe Six-pack take from Quantum mechanics?

None.

Science can't really tell you how to live your life, it can only arm you with information on how the empirical universe works - not the unempirical (and even in regards to the empirical, it's far from all knowing or perfect).

So whatever works for you.

Under most Christian religions God is unknowable, so in the end, it doesn't really matter if He exists or not. That's really among the least important factors when it comes to properly following the beliefs of most any particular religion. Really, anyone who makes the argument that God not existing invalidates religion, or tries to prove He does to defend it, doesn't really understand religion.

I have read the Old Testament. You should give it a try you casual faggot.

>how do we get our people on board for the invasion and ethnic cleansing of land X?
>write in a God-given mandate to do so

>Really, anyone who makes the argument that God not existing invalidates religion, or tries to prove He does to defend it, doesn't really understand religion.
I'd argue the opposite. Anybody who thinks religion as a broad concept is anything more than an invention of imaginary friends is sadly fooling themselves. Hard.

>my baseless speculation is just as viable as any other assertion because there's no proof of any of them
literally ancient aliens tier

An average person would probably never apply QM to everyday living. One should be aware that a lot of the modern conveniences that we enjoy are fruits of applying QM, such as computers, portable electronics and high speed internet.

If it makes you feel any better, you have to note that science can only provide a description of the universe, and does not offer any transcendental truths you may think it would.

Still, I do believe that taking a leap of faith leads to a happier life.

>Anybody who thinks religion as a broad concept is anything more than an invention of imaginary friends is sadly fooling themselves. Hard.
Sometimes, fooling oneself is the only thing that makes life bearable, user.

It's a hybrid of the collection of mankind's personal introspections, beliefs, and conflicts, throughout all of history, combined with undertones of prelingual philosophy from even before said, composing a myriad structure core to the nature of the core of man's being, in addition to being an integral driving force to nearly all of civilization up to this point in time.

Fundamentalism maybe closer to what you describe, but religion as a whole runs a lot deeper than "imaginary friends". ...Even if, for a lot of people, yes, it sadly fails to ever be more than obedience to a supplementary series of laws revolving more around cultural identification than reason or enlightenment, and is oft used to foul ends, but that fault goes to the hierarchical social tendencies of man, and not to the efforts of the authors of religion themselves... And if it wasn't religion, it'd be something else.

I have realized this about some things and will make the conscious decision to lie to myself about it until I believe it myself and it gives me peace. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as it isn't necessarily something harmful.

One day I may accept a religious delusion to make my old age more tolerable and death so terrifying.

*not so terrifying

Are you a total pleb cunt or have you never heard of the god of the gaps?

The first part of your post demonstrates a weird sort of attachment to the concept of religion to the point of babble.

>composing a myriad structure core to the nature of the core of man's being
This is borderline incoherent.

> driving force to nearly all of civilization up to this point in time.
And this is straight up wrong. Religion may have molded civilization - to some extent - but it is in no way the driving force. This is a ludicrous statement to make.

>Fundamentalism maybe closer to what you describe, but religion as a whole runs a lot deeper than "imaginary friends".
No, religion "as a whole" IS imaginary friends. The only people who don't think it's about imaginary friends are:
- The intellectual elite of the religious, who generally are too smart to swallow the bullshit wholesale as the masses do, so they rationalize their beliefs with "deeper" philosophical language, which is just as unfounded as the basic religious shtick, it just sounds wiser
- The culturally religious, who, like you, disavow everything your ancestors believed but still want to ascribe some undeserved credit to religion for unexplained reasons

This is the humanities board my man