I'm trying to find evidence of medieval axe beheading executions being done in this way with a hammer being used to pound the axe butt. But so far most sources I've found seem to imply that it was done with just an axe which makes no sense to me. The hammer and axe method seems much more likely since it ensures the execution is done more professionally, and a miss could still be a quick fatal blow through blunt force.
Is this a relatively new finding in the history of capital punishment, or is the artist just taking liberties?
It's a fucking comicbook, why would you assume it's accurate in any way whatsoever?
Jaxon Howard
Do you not know how an axe works?
Nolan Thompson
That is not going to cut anyone's head off. That's going to sever his spinal cord at the neck and imbed itself halfway through his esophagus. He's gonna die, but it's not going to be instant or painless, although the pain is going to be just at the severed nerve endings still attached to his brain.
Ethan Gomez
I do. I use a splitting maul and sometimes I have to get the sledgehammer to smash it through if I get stuck in a knotty part. I figured it was a similar idea of using the hammer to drive the kinetic energy through the axe.
Carter Green
Because it's based around the formation of the Old Swiss Confederacy and mentions Habsburgs.
Nathaniel Lewis
A wood chopping axe is not made for beheading people. An executioners axe would be heavy and sharp with a thinner blade. You can watch videos from Saudi Arabia or ISIS if you want to see how easily a sharp blade and a strong arm and remove a man's head.
Lucas Howard
Not OP, but seems like a legitimate way to do it. Preferably, I'd think they'd develop beheading axes for execution, however if you've ever baton'd a cord of wood, this is how it's done. A thick blade fixed upon the object with a thick hammer to deliver the inertia to do the job.
Jackson Scott
I've read about some early modern executions in the HRE and beheading was done with a sword, not an axe.
Parker James
Sword beheading was for nobility and knights.
The axe was for rebels and peasants, or if they have several people to execute in sequence.
Dominic Allen
I haven't read about axes being used either. I've seen lots of executioner's swords though. These usually had wide and weighty blades so it would be pretty hard to miss with them. Axes seem less practical to me in comparison.
Benjamin Nelson
What no, severing someones spinal cord causes death instantaneously. It's how the samurai ended a seppuku, leaving the front third pf the neck or so intact.
Liam Taylor
What is comic book about and which period of history and region? Decapitation was really varied from region to region around the world.
Blake Turner
What makes you think a medieval execution is meant to be professional and painless?
Caleb Rogers
So? Is it drawn and written by historians with knowledge of the field?
Christopher Richardson
No you autist it's drawn by comic book writers trying to show an accurate portrayal of history but the laymen who make historical entertainment are known to make mistakes thus OP asking if anyone knows how accurate this shit is.
You can't even answer him you're just acting like a patrician.
Alexander Gomez
The formation of the Old Swiss Confederacy. Particularly the events leading up to the Battle of Sempach and the efforts of the Habsburg Dukes to bring swift submission to Habsburg rule in modern day Switzerland.
Actually, read The Faithful Executioner. It's about an executioner in Nuremburg in the 16th century.
Most (poor) criminals were hanged. The rich and privileged were beheaded with a sword. However plenty of poor people were actually beheaded with a sword as well, out of mercy.
Really vicious criminals were broken with the wheel.
The most abhorrent criminals were drawn and quartered.
The book makes no mention of an axe used to cut people's head off. Of course this could vary from city to city.
Parker Rodriguez
There are many sources describing executions, so if none describe it being done this way (despite it being a relatively simple procedure) we can infer it was very rare. You can do the math.
1-(1-0.95)^(1/X)=Y
For there to be a 95% chance of it appearing at least once in X sources, it would have to be used at most (Y*100)% of the time. If you need higher standards of proof (for example if you could only find 10 sources) you can increase 0.95 to 0.99 or something.
So if it is not depicted in 100 sources...
1-(1-0.95)^(1/100) = 1-0.05^0.01 = 2.95%
Nathaniel Ross
>tfw not good with math
Isaiah Johnson
Severing the spinal cord does not cause instant death. Also, if you're like me, you've visited /gif/ rekt threads and seen the video of the cartel beheading where the woman's head is clearly alive for a second or two after being separated from the rest of herself.
Hammer to the axe to neck would not be instant death. Rapid death, but painfully non instant, you can bet on that.
Jose Allen
One can actually do a good job in asking experts like historians for details for one's manga, you know?
For example, I've been told that Souryu Fuyumi (mangaka of Cesare) researches his stuff well.
Please tell me the name of the manga. Also, what are some good Veeky Forums manga?
Liam Bailey
Maybe that's intentional then given that it's being carried out by the villain of the story.
Zachary Parker
For European history: Vinland Saga (For Cnut and the Vinland expedition) Wolfsmund (the manga you were asking about) Message to Adolf (follows three different men named "Adolf" in Germany during the rise of the National Socialist Workers Party. Explores the controversy of if Hitler had Jewish ancestry) Emma (Victorian era slice of life) Ad Astra - Scipio to Hannibal (should be obvious) Otome Senshou (Jan Zizka and the Hussite Rebellion)
For Asian History: Otoyomegatari ( takes place in either Turkmenistan or Kazakhstan probably) Vagabond (Bio of Miyamoto Musashi, author of The Book of Five Rings) Buddha Hyougemono (history of the tea ceremony in Japan and several of the prized tea sets of Japanese history)
These all vary slightly in how specifically accurate they are, but for the most part you'll come away from them learning at least a little bit of history.
Man, decapitating the head must be a painful way to die... ..
Easton Carter
Not necessarily. While missing with a sword is harder, you still need to hit with the center of percussion in order to get a clean cut, so if anything, beheading with a sword is going to be trickier considering you don't have a clear visual indicator for which part of the blade you need to hit with. In contrast, the entire blade of the axe is on the enter of percussion so as long as you have a decent aim and a steady hand you'd be good.
Jayden Hill
>Drifters >Strike Witches Tell me more about Drifters. I thought it was Asians being edgy?
Thomas Diaz
There's also the manga Historie, which is set in the conquest of Mecedon and follows the life of one of Alexanders' followers.
Adam Stewart
You should probably mention Sangokushi (the classic Japanese manga) because it had a huge impact on all ROTK pop culture after it, and it's also a perfectly good adaption of the novel. Really basic art though, like most old manga.
Isaiah Gonzalez
If it was it'd have a one up on 98% of discourse on Veeky Forums, so get over yourself. He wasn't making an assertion and citing a comic, he was asking about the accuracy of a comic. Going "its a comic therefore it didn't happen" is hilariously stupid rationale.
Hudson Myers
Yasuhiko Yoshikazu also did Alexandros/Alexander, a decent biopic-style account of his life.
The list is also missing Cestus, a story about slave boxers in Rome and the reign of Nero in general. It's fairly well researched.
Aaron Morris
Continental Europe used swords afaik, axes where only used in England.
Nolan Johnson
You all seem to think that cutting a head is somewhat complicated, and requires a very special equipment.
Protip : it doesn't.
Julian Anderson
And yet there are multiple historical descriptions of botched beheadings out there.
Anyone who's ever had to split wood/chop a tree witn an axe can attest to the fact that it's actually not all that easy to simultaneously put a significant amount of force behind a swing and consistently hit the same spot with that same swing. Not impossible, but also far from something that can be accomplished without practice.
Just saying, it probably takes quite a bit of practice to be able to consistently cleanly behead a human being.
Parker Torres
>he hasn't even watched meme of thrones
Asher Harris
That's why professional executioners existed.
Oliver Wood
>it's not that hard lol >but also it was a skill requiring specialized professionals to not fuck it up
Executioner was a very specialized occupation at the time, including social stigmata and nice side income. However, botching an execution could have catastrophic effects, including getting killed on the spot. Friend of mine is from an old executioners family, he gave me a good book to read about the subject.
John Nelson
Botched on purpose due to QE1 being a vindictive cunt
Ryan Young
>Saudi Arabia Those guys dont even swing that hard, they never follow through because they immediately jump away from the spurting corpse to not get blood on their pristine white executioner's bathrobe
Luke Ramirez
>Tell me more about Drifters. I thought it was Asians being edgy? It is. Not that bad in anime, but in manga of course that they are scenes like >shows katana to dwarf smith >dwarf in shock >such amazing thing, the more I look at it, the less I understand it
Christopher Smith
It's the manga. Obviously the only sword capable of decapitating is katana, so Europeans need to use some wacky tricks.
Ian Harris
Drifters is more about hot-blooded guys fighting edgy emo guys. It's inspirationally edgy.
Joshua King
But user, that sword is a very special piece of equipment, and the executioner is a professional doing it for a living.
Robert Green
I believe the author of Shokoku no Altair is a historian with a huge ladyboner for Turks.
Anthony Walker
>Emma >Slice of Life >follows Jan Zizka and the Hussite Rebellion
Something feels off here
Jaxson Ross
The description got shifted one line.
Austin Stewart
>Shokoku no Altair I came for the fuccbois, I stayed for the naval and cavalry tactics.
Jackson Powell
>Yasuhiko Yoshikazu also did Alexandros/Alexander, a decent biopic-style account of his life. This is already on the list (image related).
>The list is also missing Cestus, a story about slave boxers in Rome and the reign of Nero in general. It's fairly well researched. Added, thanks.
Fixed, thanks.
Isaac Lewis
Hey hey, like me or hate me, this is literally something I know professionally.
As far as research from written and material records show, this is incorrect as a means of execution, and from casual observation of your image, is a misunderstanding by a Japanese artist of a common corporal punishment: The hammer and axe technique seen here is how hands were commonly removed from thieves and the like.
Not quite. Decapitation in full was a serious punishment, and not just for the mortal reasons, but because its a defilement of the body. You can't be resurrected on judgement day without your head. This is why it was reserved for traitors, heretics, and regicides.
More commonly, nobles who were not executed for treason or the like, had their spines severed by a crushing gibbet, as seen in my pic.
Excellent book, but it misses a lot of important social details as I have mentioned above.
Chase Lopez
>social stigmata
Eli Gutierrez
>No you autist it's drawn by comic book writers end of conversation you sub iq retard
Jonathan Ramirez
>Dat pic How the fuck did I never know of this? Is this the medieval thing the guillotine is based on?
Adrian Powell
There was stuff like the halifax gibet that basically an axe head on an anvil, that predated the guillotine proper.
Luis Adams
Yup. Its essentially the evolution of the tech. Axe, stock-gibet, gravity gibet (like the Halifax Gibet), and finally the guillotine.
Wyatt Bennett
I don't think people back in the times of beheading gave a shit about whether or not the person died in 1 swing. The bloodier the better.
Brayden Gonzalez
I get the feeling the ep with the Dwarf smith shitting himself over SUPERIOR NIPPON STEEL is coming up soon.
Guy got his sword busted in the last one.
Ayden Flores
Apparently one of King Henry's advisors he executed took several swings to behead him.
Not that humanist. He was allowed a sword.
Brody Jenkins
>I don't think people back in the times of beheading gave a shit about whether or not the person died in 1 swing.
Quite the opposite, and we have tons of written records and accounts to prove it. Beheading is typically a punishment for people typically of noble birth committing high treason, regicide, etc.
The fact is, an executioner who botches a beheading can find himself killed on the spot.
The bloody spectacles were typically long, drawn out affairs: Wheel breaking, disembowelment, death by boiling, being burnt at the steak, impalement, sawing etc.
His Exchequer (royal finances) if I recall. Not well liked at court. Nobles who did not like him got the executioner drunk the night before, and after being hacked at with the axe a half dozen times, a guard had to finish the poor fuck off with his sword.
Jayden Smith
Stake* goddamn predictive typing.
Kayden Cox
When does that happen? I only remember the Dwarves going on about the musket Nobunaga shows them.
Cameron Miller
>the executioner is a professional doing it for a living. He's making a killing, too.
David Flores
Butcher here, beheading like pic above is very impractical, you couldnt cut tendoms and muscles with blunt pressure force, it would merely break his neck
Jose Parker
Its a cutthroat profession, but he and his fellows still like to hang.
Adam Moore
Thomas Cromwell.
Brandon Hall
Thats it, thanks. Won't lie, even the tit-filled sexstravaganza that was "The Tudors" can't make 16thC England interesting to me.
Adrian Reyes
They had professional executioners back in the day too, you know. The swords they use in Saudi Arabia for executions aren't all that special anyway. They're just heavy sabers.
Lucas Russell
A lot of executions were handled by "secular" (for the time period anyway) groups who would ensure that an execution was handled properly and no special favours were granted to make sentences less painful.
Sort of similar to how a salughter house and a butcher functions. One gives an order, and the other ensures the order is fulfilled.
Samuel Martin
Given how many gays they execute maybe they're worried about HIV/AIDS like most homophobic groups?
