Let's have a serious discussion about exchanges and cashing out

SniperGod
SniperGod

Let's have a serious discussion about exchanges and cashing out.
When it's time to make real gainz, aka cashing out, we don't have a lot of options. We either find someone on localbitcoins or we cash out through an exchange.
Problem: if you read the terms of conditions (ToC) of all these exchanges, you almost have no rights when it comes to them fucking up. They are not responsible of anything if there is a problem, they can keep your coins, keep your money, close your account at their will. When you make a transaction with them, you are giving up your rights as a consumer.
Since they are not liable for anything, for example a hack, the owners can easily secretely team up with hackers and let your coins be stolen.
If you read the reviews of these exchanges you will see that a lot of people complain about their account being shut down, transactions not being delievered, non existent customer service, etc.
I'm ready to ride the wave and play the pump and dump game but only if I can be sure I can cash out easily.
A few days ago I bought a small amount of ETH through bank transfer to see how it goes.
Also, if you give them your ID info, with the signature, it can end up on the dark markets if an employee sell it or in case of a hack.
Is there a way to safely cash out? Reading the ToC of these exchanges makes me wonder how people would trust them.

What's your experience with cashing out? It's probably the most important thing to know before investing in coins, and it looks like it's where the scams are. Your cryptos aren't worth anything if there is no way to cash out without being robbed.

All urls found in this thread:

reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/373yqo/i_was_arrested_for_selling_btc_on_localbitcoins/
amazon.com/TREZOR-The-Bitcoin-Safe-Black/dp/B00R6MKDDE
nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html?_r=0
digiconomist.net/exchange_review_kraken/
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Secure_Shell
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Device_encryption
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/rsync
reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1uccfz/i_am_a_tax_attorney_here_are_my_answers_to_the/

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Bump. I really am interested in this

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

if people couldn't cash out their coins there would be a mass panic , a run on the exchange and a huge media blitz.

the best you could argue is that theyre not actually holding as much as they should be, a fractional reserve sort of thing

King_Martha
King_Martha

Never cash out more than 10k at a time, do it slowly over a period of time and you'll avoid a lot of problems. Also don't worry about your info ending up on the darkweb, chances are it's already there. But it will probably be expired credit card info or something old that won't really affect you. Check on haveibeenpwned and you'll see that you're shit probably got hacked at one point already

Bidwell
Bidwell

Just make a secure bank account and sell bitcoins via direct cash deposit. You'll even get to charge a higher rate per BTC which can go to the capital gains taxes you'll have to pay.

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

bump

SniperGod
SniperGod

As an American, what kind of taxation is in place for crypto?

If I wanted to sell my shares in bitbean and walk away with 200 bucks in profit, what would I have to do to make sure the IRS doesn't fuck my mouth?

Inmate
Inmate

So I shouldn't cash out at kraken like 100k or million dollars?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

this

MPmaster
MPmaster

Also, there are tons of dirty coins that come directly from the dark markets. All those drug dealers who were paid in btc want to cash out and the governments try to prevent them from laundering it. That's why the exchanges have to gather info of every one. Also, they use blockchain analysis to track the coins. I want to know if the accounts that get shut down are directly tied to dirty coins or if the exchanges are just conmen who understood there is a way to steal funds without much consequences (when you agree to their ToC, you give them right to rob you).
Never cash out more than 10k at a time
Cashing out 10k or even less, safely, would be more than enough for me. But it seems like a very high amount knowing they can steal it without consequences. You read everywhere exchanges losing or keeping bitcoins.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Is kraken safe?

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Isn't there a minimum for capital gains tax? I could be wrong but I seriously doubt you'll get IRS v& for sub 1000 bucks

Snarelure
Snarelure

one of the many stories:
reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/373yqo/i_was_arrested_for_selling_btc_on_localbitcoins/

inb4 back2reddit

Emberfire
Emberfire

self american bump

I remember hearing the "10,000" amount thrown around a lot, specifically how it is the annual safe amount before you are taxed. Is that correct?

RumChicken
RumChicken

Is kraken safe for exchange?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

you know there are shills , sock puppets and false flags working to discredit btc and spread fud, right?

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

That's why you should keep all of your crypto in their respective wallets. It's literally the safest way to store then. Lol all you faggots for centralizing your decentralized currencies and commodities on exchanges.

TreeEater
TreeEater

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EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED TO THE CONTRARY IN A WRITING BY US, OUR SERVICES ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS. WE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM, AND YOU WAIVE, ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT AS TO OUR SERVICES, INCLUDING THE INFORMATION, CONTENT AND MATERIALS CONTAINED THEREIN.

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I don't know, what do you think?

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

10,000 is nonsense. its the limit at which anything above that a form has to be filled out, but banks , or anyone really, can send in that same report if they detect anything suspicious. so cashing in 9999 will point even more people towards your case

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

Yes, but imagine you make mad gainz with btc in a few years. Those gainz aren't worth anything if you can't cash out safely.

MPmaster
MPmaster

They will when a majority of companies start using crypto as currency

Playboyize
Playboyize

Why shouldn't I cash at out 100k?

What they are going to throw me in jail?!

FastChef
FastChef

Banks and companies will develop a safe crypto but I doubt it will be bitcoins or any coins that are now on the market.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Problem: if you read the terms of conditions (ToC) of all these exchanges, you almost have no rights when it comes to them fucking up. They are not responsible of anything if there is a problem, they can keep your coins, keep your money, close your account at their will. When you make a transaction with them, you are giving up your rights as a consumer.

Exactly, it's all based on trust, it doesn't worth to scam $200 or $2000 just to ruin your reputation, but 50k ~100k, oh boy that's another history.

I'm from Brazil, our first local exchange who started together with bitcoin worked like a trustworth company for years, nothing strange happened, until bitcoin price rose from $10 to $100 and they suddently were "hacked", all coins are gone and so the owner.

They literally run away with about 13k of bitcoins and charges upon them still up on the justice, so NEVER SEND BIG AMOUNTS AT ONCE.

girlDog
girlDog

Guys, here... let me tell you what I know.

First of all, exchanges are fucking crooked. Unless you want to buy some alts, never fuck around on them.

Second, keep your money on a hardware wallet like this one.

Third, there's all kinds of ways to cash out. You can buy gold, you can buy other assets, you can cash out at BTC ATMs, you can use it on Amazon. Come on faggots, it's 2017.

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

So if I send 100k worth of bitcoins, they are going to hack it? Poof money gone? I need to cashout so that I can buy a home.

5mileys
5mileys

You: Hey, I want to cash out 100k.
Exchanges: Sorry, your account look suspicious and didn't pass the risk assessment test. we had to close it

Can someone show me people who cash out regularly several thousands of fiat?

askme
askme

This is what I was talking about.

amazon.com/TREZOR-The-Bitcoin-Safe-Black/dp/B00R6MKDDE

Emberburn
Emberburn

the solution is to cash out in increments to avoid all of these potential problems

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Exactly, it's all based on trust, it doesn't worth to scam $200 or $2000 just to ruin your reputation
Apparently not. Read the reviews of these exchanges, people were scammed regularly for years and the exchanges continue to operate. They can just steal once in a while and make tons of money this way.

RumChicken
RumChicken

This, if you're moving around more than 10K or constantly popping up with huge transactions. Someone is going to come talk to you.

JunkTop
JunkTop

why should i use this over a paper wallet? electronics can malfunction and data can be lost...

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Fuck. So I am stuck with all this money?

Playboyize
Playboyize

All this crypto shit is so fucking shady, I'm fucking afraid I'll lose all my coins and money because they decide my account is suspicious and then just ban it and take my coins.

Basically, I should just do it like that:
1) buy/sell/exchange my coins at Kraken/Poloniex but never keep them there
2) always send all coins to my hardware wallet (ledger nano s)
3) when it's time to cash out, only small amounts each time and slowly
Right?

I'm safe when I store my coins in my hardware wallet right?

Skullbone
Skullbone

Well, that's why I can't decide if all this crypto thing is a scam or not. From what I see, you put money in the crypto system and you can't really take it out.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Build a good reputation and sell it on ebay or local trading websites, that's what people do here.

Supergrass
Supergrass

amazon.com/TREZOR-The-Bitcoin-Safe-Black/dp/B00R6MKDDE
youre a fucking cuck. You obviouslyt did no reaserch on the trezor and deserve to lose all your 4 ETH

5mileys
5mileys

I'm safe when I store my coins in my hardware wallet right?
Yes.
But I don't understand why it would be shady to cash out large amounts if the gainz were just capital gainz. Governments are afraid that this money comes from the dark market, which is understandable.
nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html?_r=0

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

It's too complicated for the common user. Normies rush into cryptos because they are unaware of all that hassle and think it will be easy to cash out.

Bidwell
Bidwell

I don't know if Kraken is viable for cash outing, I found some big buyers on local bitcoin they send dollar, but I live in sweden, so I am not sure how it is going to work once it arrives on the bank account.

I am fucking wary because if they see me cashing out at 100k they will throw me in jail. Also fuck the Man for keeping us brothas down.

Booteefool
Booteefool

if they see me cashing out at 100k they will throw me in jail
But why? Is it illegal to make crazy gainz out of a bitcoin investment? How is it different than selling a table to a sucker for 100k? It's not considered money by law.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

So what is the problem then? I cash out at kraken 10k or sell at localbitcoin at 100k

They will throw me in jail, if they see with 1 mil on my bank account. If I had a "hidden" bank account...

WebTool
WebTool

On QudrigaCX you can cash out 100k no problem, sadly its for Canadians only.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

yes it is bordering on illegal to make money in methods that aren't approved for goys

this is half the reason the world needs crypto

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

holy fuck why not just cash out on kraken like a normal human being

SniperGod
SniperGod

Still haven't got much of an answer here. Slowly leaking out my profits in increments to avoid the eyes of Mr. Lawman still seems incredibly shady.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

What is shady for you? Cash out as much as you can and pay the tax, problem solved.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

Pay the tax
Giving money to dirty nocoiners

viagrandad
viagrandad

how do I pay the tax? what tax level is crypto memecoins under?

Techpill
Techpill

That's the question. Exchanges, kraken included, seems to scam people on a large scale.
digiconomist.net/exchange_review_kraken/
read the comments. Same type of comments everywhere: accounts blocked, transactions disappeared, etc.

RavySnake
RavySnake

depend on the laws of your country. It should be like any stock investment. However, to be sure, you should contact a lawyer and talk about all this if you want to cash out a large amount.

likme
likme

This

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Never cash out more than 10k at a time
Banker here, don't do this, looks scuzzy as fauck to the compliance peeps

Get verified to the needed level for your exchange, and then cash out as much as you want

TreeEater
TreeEater

Depending if you're in US, I wouldn't cash out more than 1k at a time. Convert alt coins to bitcoins. Sell bitcoin IRL. Western Union that shit back to yourself, then deposit in bank.

You usually don't have to provide ID if you're dealing with cash under 1k.

WebTool
WebTool

and then cash out as much as you want
and be at a very high risk of losing everything because the terms of conditions of all these exchanges make them non liable of anything.

Kraken ToC:
"YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT INFORMATION YOU STORE OR TRANSFER THROUGH OUR SERVICES MAY BECOME IRRETRIEVABLY LOST DUE TO A VARIETY OF CAUSES"
fuckink kek. The poor guy trying to cash out several dozen k's can lose everything in a heartbeat without being able to complain

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

Exchange owner here,
I won't say which one. Just know that we will do our best to "persuade" our biggest whales to continue playing until the market moves in our favor i.e. paying out fewer fiat than we collected. That's how we run our business obviously. Keep mining and keep exchanging! Cheers

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

proofs

hairygrape
hairygrape

How do you secure yourself from that? I don't want that to happen to me.

cum2soon
cum2soon

I have no idea, that's why I stay out of crypto until I understand how it all works when you cash out your gains. Like banks, exchanges can't have enough liquidity to pay every customer who wants to cash out. They need to have more buyers than sellers. With all the alt coin trading, pump and dump memes, I'm also wondering if they are not an elaborate way of laundering money, only cashing out to the mob.

JunkTop
JunkTop

What about using services such as vaultoro that sell gold for BTC?

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Use a capital gain calc

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

amazon.com/TREZOR-The-Bitcoin-Safe-Black/dp/B00R6MKDDE
not just encrypting your wallet and storing it on a USB or backing it up on an encrypted sftp fils server
Literally giving away your money

happy_sad
happy_sad

Explain. Looking at the Ledger S

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Here in the states; use Coinbase or (my preferred) Gemini. I mean, you'll have to get verified and obviously pay taxes but both sites are FDIC insures and fully licensed. I've never had an issue withdrawing into Fiat via Gemini and I've withdrawn a bunch of times. As for actual exchanges; dunno can't help you there. I'm NY which bans usage/fiat from places like Polo which is what led me to finding Gemini and Coinbase.

hairygrape
hairygrape

Explain. Looking at the Ledger S
explain what?
backup your wallet with a good password
setup server with drive attached
drive protected with LUKS or something
store wallet there as backup
communicate with server only through ssh/sftp
nobody can really intercept your files during transfer
done

WebTool
WebTool

Why so complicated? Also, I believe an air gapped live OS on a USB drive would be more secure.

Emberfire
Emberfire

Why so complicated?
It's not complicated at all
it just sounds that way
you can also make an rsync script that backs up your wallets for you every day or so

Flameblow
Flameblow

Gemini looks like they want to do things the right wy. However, user agreement:

Digital Assets are not legal tender, are not backed by the government, and Digital Asset accounts and value balances are not subject to Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or Securities Investor Protection Corporation protections;transactions in Digital Assets may be irreversible, and, accordingly, losses due to fraudulent or accidental transactions may not be recoverable some Digital Asset transactions shall be deemed to be made when recorded on a public ledger.

You acknowledge and agree that you shall access and use Gemini at your own risk. However, this brief statement does not disclose all of the risks associated with trading in Digital Assets. You should, therefore, carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your circumstances and financial resources. You should be aware that you may sustain a total loss of the funds in your Gemini Account, and that under certain market conditions, you may find it difficult or impossible to liquidate a position.

whereismyname
whereismyname

tfw got into crypto a few months ago as a way to turn a few bucks to upgrade from my shitty hatchback to a convertible thinking I was clever
the price has gone up so much they're worth more than I'll make this year already and it's still going
I just wanted to flip a couple grand for a new car on Coinbase and cash in and now I've got so much Anonymous is going to come and steal it all because I'm a lazy brainlet who doesn't understand proper security

cum2soon
cum2soon

we all start somewhere
If you're interested then take a look at these to get an idea how to do it
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Secure_Shell
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Device_encryption
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/rsync

takes2long
takes2long

Is there a way to safely cash out?

Yes, start buying ACTUAL STUFF with your crypto.

Bidwell
Bidwell

this. use it as currency.

Emberburn
Emberburn

Does anyone else keep a spreadsheet of all the coins and purchase information they do?
Good for when you do an audit on funds

Lunatick
Lunatick

But I want to buy more money

cum2soon
cum2soon

Question:

Can you cash all out at a Bitcoin ATM and just claim the gains as side income on a 1099?

Supergrass
Supergrass

bump

FastChef
FastChef

why does everyone want to cash out directly into their bank account?

buy stuff with bitcoin, sell stuff on ebay, if men in black knock on your door claim you're going dumpster diving two-weekly

this is the general idea and might not be practical as such, but equivalents should work

happy_sad
happy_sad

Why not just pay your taxes on your gains?

likme
likme

The IRS is trained to fuck your mouth.

hairygrape
hairygrape

how much can i withdraw in fiat per day on gemini?
i want to support myself with luxury.

Flameblow
Flameblow

this wasn't about taxes but about your bank / the government getting on your ass because you're trading le ebin meme coins and being all crypto leet haxx0r evading govt control

but might work for taxes too yeah if you're into that

FastChef
FastChef

also if you're buying stuff online with bitcoin the exchanges make less of a fuzz, get the money where you're guaranteed to get it vs making exchanges pay you

iluvmen
iluvmen

because the government doesn't know how to spend my money

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Can't you just use a decentralized exchange like Bitsquare when you're exchanging crypto for fiat. Might take a couple trades to offload everything but it's peer to peer right?

King_Martha
King_Martha

so first time bit coiner here

I bought .11 and It's already going down, in the grand scheme of things this is nothing, ups and downs are part of it, but how do I just let it go and forget about it?

It wasn't a lot of money, but I still find myself obsessively checking it. if it goes up a dollar or two I get really happy and down a dollar and I feel empty

how do you guys handle this shit in large amounts

TreeEater
TreeEater

That's normal breh, everyone's like that at first. It shows that you care. But don't worry, soon you'll get more relaxed with it and won't obsessively check the prices.
It's just a matter of time.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

HODL go outside and come back in 6 months. Unless you want to be a day trader...

likme
likme

This is my primary concern as a no coiner, it seems these websites can fuck your shit up

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Pay tax

likme
likme

check once a day
better yet have some app alert you if it drops below some point if you're looking to buy more
when you invest in coins, assume that you lost the money

Firespawn
Firespawn

just pay tax
it's just your capital gain
mark how much you paid for and when
when you sell mark how much you sold and when then pay tax on the gain

5mileys
5mileys

Start using crypto as MONEY.

That is where the adoption comes from.

Furthermore, you will avoid the problem with conversion fees, banks seizing your shit and stuff like that.

Just don't get dupted.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Start using crypto as MONEY.
Should I keep each currency in their own natural form or convert it to something like bitcoin

King_Martha
King_Martha

Most places only take btc. The less conversions before you pay the better.

StonedTime
StonedTime

I store my coins in hardware wallet and sell them several times, each time $1,000. I don't want to lose everything in one transaction because of network/computer problem. If there is a technical problem, I only lose $1,000, far better than losing all my coins.

happy_sad
happy_sad

A 'crypto exchange" is an oxymoron. Cryptocurrencies are supposed to be secretive and facilitate peer to peer transactions. The secret part (crypto) is in the damn name. It makes no goddamn sense to throw control of your money to a central authority. It might as well be named uncryptocurrency.

hairygrape
hairygrape

When you make a transaction with them, you are giving up your rights as a consumer.

Believe it or not dude this is the nature of most licensing agreements and covers nearly every aspect of modern life from using your iphone to using virtually any modern website.

That said I've had zero problems with coinbase going from USD to BTC, LTC, of ETH or vice versa.

Emberfire
Emberfire

This. If we really want crypto to make it we have to start using it like a currency. When you buy shit in Bitcoin you don't need Kraken / Bitstamp / Coinbase anymore. You don't even need a bank account anymore.

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

The problem is that human greed is overriding rational thought. Cryptos have entered a new era where speculation has nothing to do with the underlying technology. People don't give a shit about which one is more advanced or has better features. THEY JUST WANT TO MAKE MONEY. Cryptocurrencies have failed to achieve their goal because of greed.

Booteefool
Booteefool

please respond

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

With bank transfers, what you lose on rapidity you gain on security. With paypal, credit cards etc. you can buy almost anything anywhere. What's the point of having only crypto wallets when you are constantly at risk of losing all your coins. What libertarians will learn with cryptos is that it's nice to have a gov that protects you against fraud.

TechHater
TechHater

reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1uccfz/i_am_a_tax_attorney_here_are_my_answers_to_the/
Also, someone was arrested and his coins seized because he was accused to operate a business without a license.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

holy shit, you stupid fucking nigger, this is standard boilerplate

any exchange dealing with fiat doesn't give a shit about paying out, especially in the current bull run, as the only way they could lose money is if they're acting as market maker and the market is crashing AND they're incompetent

you have FAR more to worry about your bank flagging or SARing your account because you're being a retarded nigger faggot and structuring your withdrawals

JunkTop
JunkTop

Third, there's all kinds of ways to cash out. You can buy gold, you can buy other assets, you can cash out at BTC ATMs, you can use it on Amazon. Come on faggots, it's 2017.
They need your help

Take them to the promise land

viagrandad
viagrandad

Third, there's all kinds of ways to cash out. You can buy gold, you can buy other assets, you can cash out at BTC ATMs, you can use it on Amazon. Come on faggots, it's 2017.

Need to cash out 100k, tell me how

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Love how everyone on this fucking site will tell you what crypto to invest your money in but no-one fucking knows how to pay taxes when the taxman knocks on your door.

Almost as if everyone's just trying to scam each other on this site.
Really activates my almonds.

SniperGod
SniperGod

It's pretty simple. If an exchange were to steal my money, I would hunt them down in person and extract my money from them. They aren't exactly difficult to find.

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