Let's have a serious discussion about exchanges and cashing out

Let's have a serious discussion about exchanges and cashing out.
When it's time to make real gainz, aka cashing out, we don't have a lot of options. We either find someone on localbitcoins or we cash out through an exchange.
Problem: if you read the terms of conditions (ToC) of all these exchanges, you almost have no rights when it comes to them fucking up. They are not responsible of anything if there is a problem, they can keep your coins, keep your money, close your account at their will. When you make a transaction with them, you are giving up your rights as a consumer.
Since they are not liable for anything, for example a hack, the owners can easily secretely team up with hackers and let your coins be stolen.
If you read the reviews of these exchanges you will see that a lot of people complain about their account being shut down, transactions not being delievered, non existent customer service, etc.
I'm ready to ride the wave and play the pump and dump game but only if I can be sure I can cash out easily.
A few days ago I bought a small amount of ETH through bank transfer to see how it goes.
Also, if you give them your ID info, with the signature, it can end up on the dark markets if an employee sell it or in case of a hack.
Is there a way to safely cash out? Reading the ToC of these exchanges makes me wonder how people would trust them.

What's your experience with cashing out? It's probably the most important thing to know before investing in coins, and it looks like it's where the scams are. Your cryptos aren't worth anything if there is no way to cash out without being robbed.

Other urls found in this thread:

reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/373yqo/i_was_arrested_for_selling_btc_on_localbitcoins/
amazon.com/TREZOR-The-Bitcoin-Safe-Black/dp/B00R6MKDDE
nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html?_r=0
digiconomist.net/exchange_review_kraken/
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Secure_Shell
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Device_encryption
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/rsync
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Bump. I really am interested in this

if people couldn't cash out their coins there would be a mass panic , a run on the exchange and a huge media blitz.

the best you could argue is that theyre not actually holding as much as they should be, a fractional reserve sort of thing

Never cash out more than 10k at a time, do it slowly over a period of time and you'll avoid a lot of problems. Also don't worry about your info ending up on the darkweb, chances are it's already there. But it will probably be expired credit card info or something old that won't really affect you. Check on haveibeenpwned and you'll see that you're shit probably got hacked at one point already

Just make a secure bank account and sell bitcoins via direct cash deposit. You'll even get to charge a higher rate per BTC which can go to the capital gains taxes you'll have to pay.

bump

As an American, what kind of taxation is in place for crypto?

If I wanted to sell my shares in bitbean and walk away with 200 bucks in profit, what would I have to do to make sure the IRS doesn't fuck my mouth?

So I shouldn't cash out at kraken like 100k or million dollars?

this

Also, there are tons of dirty coins that come directly from the dark markets. All those drug dealers who were paid in btc want to cash out and the governments try to prevent them from laundering it. That's why the exchanges have to gather info of every one. Also, they use blockchain analysis to track the coins. I want to know if the accounts that get shut down are directly tied to dirty coins or if the exchanges are just conmen who understood there is a way to steal funds without much consequences (when you agree to their ToC, you give them right to rob you).
>Never cash out more than 10k at a time
Cashing out 10k or even less, safely, would be more than enough for me. But it seems like a very high amount knowing they can steal it without consequences. You read everywhere exchanges losing or keeping bitcoins.

Is kraken safe?

Isn't there a minimum for capital gains tax? I could be wrong but I seriously doubt you'll get IRS v& for sub 1000 bucks

one of the many stories:
reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/373yqo/i_was_arrested_for_selling_btc_on_localbitcoins/

>inb4 back2reddit

self american bump

I remember hearing the "10,000" amount thrown around a lot, specifically how it is the annual safe amount before you are taxed. Is that correct?

Is kraken safe for exchange?

you know there are shills , sock puppets and false flags working to discredit btc and spread fud, right?

That's why you should keep all of your crypto in their respective wallets. It's literally the safest way to store then. Lol all you faggots for centralizing your decentralized currencies and commodities on exchanges.

>"DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES

>EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED TO THE CONTRARY IN A WRITING BY US, OUR SERVICES ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS. WE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM, AND YOU WAIVE, ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT AS TO OUR SERVICES, INCLUDING THE INFORMATION, CONTENT AND MATERIALS CONTAINED THEREIN.

>YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT INFORMATION YOU STORE OR TRANSFER THROUGH OUR SERVICES MAY BECOME IRRETRIEVABLY LOST OR CORRUPTED OR TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE DUE TO A VARIETY OF CAUSES, INCLUDING SOFTWARE FAILURES, PROTOCOL CHANGES BY THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS, INTERNET OUTAGES, FORCE MAJEURE EVENT OR OTHER DISASTERS INCLUDING THIRD PARTY DDOS ATTACKS, SCHEDULED OR UNSCHEDULED MAINTENANCE, OR OTHER CAUSES EITHER WITHIN OR OUTSIDE OUR CONTROL. YOU ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR BACKING UP AND MAINTAINING DUPLICATE COPIES OF ANY INFORMATION YOU STORE OR TRANSFER THROUGH OUR SERVICES."

I don't know, what do you think?

10,000 is nonsense. its the limit at which anything above that a form has to be filled out, but banks , or anyone really, can send in that same report if they detect anything suspicious. so cashing in 9999 will point even more people towards your case

Yes, but imagine you make mad gainz with btc in a few years. Those gainz aren't worth anything if you can't cash out safely.

They will when a majority of companies start using crypto as currency

Why shouldn't I cash at out 100k?

What they are going to throw me in jail?!

Banks and companies will develop a safe crypto but I doubt it will be bitcoins or any coins that are now on the market.

>Problem: if you read the terms of conditions (ToC) of all these exchanges, you almost have no rights when it comes to them fucking up. They are not responsible of anything if there is a problem, they can keep your coins, keep your money, close your account at their will. When you make a transaction with them, you are giving up your rights as a consumer.

Exactly, it's all based on trust, it doesn't worth to scam $200 or $2000 just to ruin your reputation, but 50k ~100k, oh boy that's another history.

I'm from Brazil, our first local exchange who started together with bitcoin worked like a trustworth company for years, nothing strange happened, until bitcoin price rose from $10 to $100 and they suddently were "hacked", all coins are gone and so the owner.

They literally run away with about 13k of bitcoins and charges upon them still up on the justice, so NEVER SEND BIG AMOUNTS AT ONCE.

Guys, here... let me tell you what I know.

First of all, exchanges are fucking crooked. Unless you want to buy some alts, never fuck around on them.

Second, keep your money on a hardware wallet like this one.

Third, there's all kinds of ways to cash out. You can buy gold, you can buy other assets, you can cash out at BTC ATMs, you can use it on Amazon. Come on faggots, it's 2017.

So if I send 100k worth of bitcoins, they are going to hack it? Poof money gone? I need to cashout so that I can buy a home.

You: Hey, I want to cash out 100k.
Exchanges: Sorry, your account look suspicious and didn't pass the risk assessment test. we had to close it

Can someone show me people who cash out regularly several thousands of fiat?

This is what I was talking about.

amazon.com/TREZOR-The-Bitcoin-Safe-Black/dp/B00R6MKDDE

the solution is to cash out in increments to avoid all of these potential problems

>Exactly, it's all based on trust, it doesn't worth to scam $200 or $2000 just to ruin your reputation
Apparently not. Read the reviews of these exchanges, people were scammed regularly for years and the exchanges continue to operate. They can just steal once in a while and make tons of money this way.

This, if you're moving around more than 10K or constantly popping up with huge transactions. Someone is going to come talk to you.

why should i use this over a paper wallet? electronics can malfunction and data can be lost...

Fuck. So I am stuck with all this money?

All this crypto shit is so fucking shady, I'm fucking afraid I'll lose all my coins and money because they decide my account is suspicious and then just ban it and take my coins.

Basically, I should just do it like that:
1) buy/sell/exchange my coins at Kraken/Poloniex but never keep them there
2) always send all coins to my hardware wallet (ledger nano s)
3) when it's time to cash out, only small amounts each time and slowly
Right?

I'm safe when I store my coins in my hardware wallet right?

Well, that's why I can't decide if all this crypto thing is a scam or not. From what I see, you put money in the crypto system and you can't really take it out.

Build a good reputation and sell it on ebay or local trading websites, that's what people do here.

>amazon.com/TREZOR-The-Bitcoin-Safe-Black/dp/B00R6MKDDE
youre a fucking cuck. You obviouslyt did no reaserch on the trezor and deserve to lose all your 4 ETH

>I'm safe when I store my coins in my hardware wallet right?
Yes.
But I don't understand why it would be shady to cash out large amounts if the gainz were just capital gainz. Governments are afraid that this money comes from the dark market, which is understandable.
nytimes.com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html?_r=0

It's too complicated for the common user. Normies rush into cryptos because they are unaware of all that hassle and think it will be easy to cash out.

I don't know if Kraken is viable for cash outing, I found some big buyers on local bitcoin they send dollar, but I live in sweden, so I am not sure how it is going to work once it arrives on the bank account.

I am fucking wary because if they see me cashing out at 100k they will throw me in jail. Also fuck the Man for keeping us brothas down.

>if they see me cashing out at 100k they will throw me in jail
But why? Is it illegal to make crazy gainz out of a bitcoin investment? How is it different than selling a table to a sucker for 100k? It's not considered money by law.

So what is the problem then? I cash out at kraken 10k or sell at localbitcoin at 100k

They will throw me in jail, if they see with 1 mil on my bank account. If I had a "hidden" bank account...

On QudrigaCX you can cash out 100k no problem, sadly its for Canadians only.

yes it is bordering on illegal to make money in methods that aren't approved for goys

this is half the reason the world needs crypto

holy fuck why not just cash out on kraken like a normal human being

Still haven't got much of an answer here. Slowly leaking out my profits in increments to avoid the eyes of Mr. Lawman still seems incredibly shady.

What is shady for you? Cash out as much as you can and pay the tax, problem solved.

>Pay the tax
>Giving money to dirty nocoiners

how do I pay the tax? what tax level is crypto memecoins under?

That's the question. Exchanges, kraken included, seems to scam people on a large scale.
digiconomist.net/exchange_review_kraken/
read the comments. Same type of comments everywhere: accounts blocked, transactions disappeared, etc.

depend on the laws of your country. It should be like any stock investment. However, to be sure, you should contact a lawyer and talk about all this if you want to cash out a large amount.

This

>Never cash out more than 10k at a time
Banker here, don't do this, looks scuzzy as fauck to the compliance peeps

Get verified to the needed level for your exchange, and then cash out as much as you want

Depending if you're in US, I wouldn't cash out more than 1k at a time. Convert alt coins to bitcoins. Sell bitcoin IRL. Western Union that shit back to yourself, then deposit in bank.

You usually don't have to provide ID if you're dealing with cash under 1k.

>and then cash out as much as you want
and be at a very high risk of losing everything because the terms of conditions of all these exchanges make them non liable of anything.

Kraken ToC:
"YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT INFORMATION YOU STORE OR TRANSFER THROUGH OUR SERVICES MAY BECOME IRRETRIEVABLY LOST DUE TO A VARIETY OF CAUSES"
fuckink kek. The poor guy trying to cash out several dozen k's can lose everything in a heartbeat without being able to complain

Exchange owner here,
I won't say which one. Just know that we will do our best to "persuade" our biggest whales to continue playing until the market moves in our favor i.e. paying out fewer fiat than we collected. That's how we run our business obviously. Keep mining and keep exchanging! Cheers

>proofs

How do you secure yourself from that? I don't want that to happen to me.

I have no idea, that's why I stay out of crypto until I understand how it all works when you cash out your gains. Like banks, exchanges can't have enough liquidity to pay every customer who wants to cash out. They need to have more buyers than sellers. With all the alt coin trading, pump and dump memes, I'm also wondering if they are not an elaborate way of laundering money, only cashing out to the mob.

What about using services such as vaultoro that sell gold for BTC?

Use a capital gain calc

>amazon.com/TREZOR-The-Bitcoin-Safe-Black/dp/B00R6MKDDE
>not just encrypting your wallet and storing it on a USB or backing it up on an encrypted sftp fils server
Literally giving away your money

Explain. Looking at the Ledger S

Here in the states; use Coinbase or (my preferred) Gemini. I mean, you'll have to get verified and obviously pay taxes but both sites are FDIC insures and fully licensed. I've never had an issue withdrawing into Fiat via Gemini and I've withdrawn a bunch of times. As for actual exchanges; dunno can't help you there. I'm NY which bans usage/fiat from places like Polo which is what led me to finding Gemini and Coinbase.

>Explain. Looking at the Ledger S
explain what?
>backup your wallet with a good password
>setup server with drive attached
>drive protected with LUKS or something
>store wallet there as backup
>communicate with server only through ssh/sftp
>nobody can really intercept your files during transfer
>done

Why so complicated? Also, I believe an air gapped live OS on a USB drive would be more secure.

>Why so complicated?
It's not complicated at all
it just sounds that way
you can also make an rsync script that backs up your wallets for you every day or so

Gemini looks like they want to do things the right wy. However, user agreement:

>Digital Assets are not legal tender, are not backed by the government, and Digital Asset accounts and value balances are not subject to Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or Securities Investor Protection Corporation protections;transactions in Digital Assets may be irreversible, and, accordingly, losses due to fraudulent or accidental transactions may not be recoverable some Digital Asset transactions shall be deemed to be made when recorded on a public ledger.

>You acknowledge and agree that you shall access and use Gemini at your own risk. However, this brief statement does not disclose all of the risks associated with trading in Digital Assets. You should, therefore, carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your circumstances and financial resources. You should be aware that you may sustain a total loss of the funds in your Gemini Account, and that under certain market conditions, you may find it difficult or impossible to liquidate a position.

>tfw got into crypto a few months ago as a way to turn a few bucks to upgrade from my shitty hatchback to a convertible thinking I was clever
>the price has gone up so much they're worth more than I'll make this year already and it's still going
>I just wanted to flip a couple grand for a new car on Coinbase and cash in and now I've got so much Anonymous is going to come and steal it all because I'm a lazy brainlet who doesn't understand proper security

we all start somewhere
If you're interested then take a look at these to get an idea how to do it
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Secure_Shell
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Device_encryption
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/rsync

>Is there a way to safely cash out?

Yes, start buying ACTUAL STUFF with your crypto.

this. use it as currency.

Does anyone else keep a spreadsheet of all the coins and purchase information they do?
Good for when you do an audit on funds

But I want to buy more money

Question:

Can you cash all out at a Bitcoin ATM and just claim the gains as side income on a 1099?

bump

why does everyone want to cash out directly into their bank account?

buy stuff with bitcoin, sell stuff on ebay, if men in black knock on your door claim you're going dumpster diving two-weekly

this is the general idea and might not be practical as such, but equivalents should work

Why not just pay your taxes on your gains?

The IRS is trained to fuck your mouth.

how much can i withdraw in fiat per day on gemini?
i want to support myself with luxury.

this wasn't about taxes but about your bank / the government getting on your ass because you're trading le ebin meme coins and being all crypto leet haxx0r evading govt control

but might work for taxes too yeah if you're into that

also if you're buying stuff online with bitcoin the exchanges make less of a fuzz, get the money where you're guaranteed to get it vs making exchanges pay you

because the government doesn't know how to spend my money

Can't you just use a decentralized exchange like Bitsquare when you're exchanging crypto for fiat. Might take a couple trades to offload everything but it's peer to peer right?

so first time bit coiner here

I bought .11 and It's already going down, in the grand scheme of things this is nothing, ups and downs are part of it, but how do I just let it go and forget about it?

It wasn't a lot of money, but I still find myself obsessively checking it. if it goes up a dollar or two I get really happy and down a dollar and I feel empty

how do you guys handle this shit in large amounts

That's normal breh, everyone's like that at first. It shows that you care. But don't worry, soon you'll get more relaxed with it and won't obsessively check the prices.
It's just a matter of time.

HODL go outside and come back in 6 months. Unless you want to be a day trader...

This is my primary concern as a no coiner, it seems these websites can fuck your shit up

Pay tax

check once a day
better yet have some app alert you if it drops below some point if you're looking to buy more
when you invest in coins, assume that you lost the money

just pay tax
it's just your capital gain
mark how much you paid for and when
when you sell mark how much you sold and when then pay tax on the gain

Start using crypto as MONEY.

That is where the adoption comes from.

Furthermore, you will avoid the problem with conversion fees, banks seizing your shit and stuff like that.

Just don't get dupted.

>Start using crypto as MONEY.
Should I keep each currency in their own natural form or convert it to something like bitcoin

Most places only take btc. The less conversions before you pay the better.

I store my coins in hardware wallet and sell them several times, each time $1,000. I don't want to lose everything in one transaction because of network/computer problem. If there is a technical problem, I only lose $1,000, far better than losing all my coins.

A 'crypto exchange" is an oxymoron. Cryptocurrencies are supposed to be secretive and facilitate peer to peer transactions. The secret part (crypto) is in the damn name. It makes no goddamn sense to throw control of your money to a central authority. It might as well be named uncryptocurrency.

>When you make a transaction with them, you are giving up your rights as a consumer.

Believe it or not dude this is the nature of most licensing agreements and covers nearly every aspect of modern life from using your iphone to using virtually any modern website.

That said I've had zero problems with coinbase going from USD to BTC, LTC, of ETH or vice versa.

This. If we really want crypto to make it we have to start using it like a currency. When you buy shit in Bitcoin you don't need Kraken / Bitstamp / Coinbase anymore. You don't even need a bank account anymore.

The problem is that human greed is overriding rational thought. Cryptos have entered a new era where speculation has nothing to do with the underlying technology. People don't give a shit about which one is more advanced or has better features. THEY JUST WANT TO MAKE MONEY. Cryptocurrencies have failed to achieve their goal because of greed.

please respond