Why isn't there a language as close to English as Dutch is to German or Norwegian is to Swedish?

Why isn't there a language as close to English as Dutch is to German or Norwegian is to Swedish?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=trx1iP9n7ik
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English
youtube.com/watch?v=hDJiHSFvm_o
grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/01/why-is-english-a-germanic-language.html
linguistlist.org/ask-ling/message-details1.cfm?asklingid=200300664
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Classification
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

It's called Scots

Because there's a fucking ocean between them and mainland Europe.

Interesting.

Maybe Frisian?

Even if you compare an English text with mostly or all Germanic words it still looks nothing like Frisian.

There's French

Scots

It's kind of like a midway point between English and all the other various Germanic languages

>English
My daughter milked the cow
>German
Meine Tochter milchte die Kühe
>Scots
Mi dochter milkit thi coo

danish is quite close to english, particularly in jutland

Here's an example of Scots being spoken

youtube.com/watch?v=trx1iP9n7ik

If you speak English you can probably understand most of it

That's cherrypicked though

>English
The people changes the city
>German
Die Menschen verändern die Stadt
>Scots
Tha muinntir a 'bhaile atharrachadh
>French
Le peuple change la cité

>Tha muinntir a 'bhaile atharrachadh
That's Gaelic, not Scots

Scottish Gaelic, or Gàidhlig, is a Celtic language derived from Middle Irish. Scots, or Lallans, is a Germanic language derived from Anglo-Saxon/

This is the storie o the birth o Jesus Christ. His mither Mary wis trystit til Joseph, but afore they war mairriet she wis fund tae be wi bairn bi the Halie Spírit. Her husband Joseph, honest man, hed nae mind tae affront her afore the warld an wis for brakkin aff their tryst hidlinweys; an sae he wis een ettlin tae dae, whan an angel o the Lord kythed til him in a draim an said til him, “Joseph, son o Dauvit, be nane feared tae tak Mary your trystit wife intil your hame; the bairn she is cairrein is o the Halie Spírit. She will beir a son, an the name ye ar tae gíe him is Jesus, for he will sauf his fowk frae their sins.”

That isn't Scots it's Gaelic

In Scots it would be "Thi fowk chaungand thi burgh".

Are you doing this on purpose? French would never say that, more something like

Les gens changent la ville

Cité is location, not city; peuple is like lowerclass folks, not everybody

There's two main facets to the development of English, segregation and romantic/germanic mixing. The root of English comes from the western movement of germanic languages, thats why it has more similarities to dutch than it does to German. However, with the invasions of Romans and French Normans, the language earned a latin/romantic spin with many words with latin roots.

Now with other countries, their presence with neighbors reinforced a common language rule set, such as Dutch and German or Norwegian and Swedish. However, English was disconnected from the continent and only had itself to build language with. Thats why English and Scots do have similarities, as they would have regular contact and communication.

>Les gens changent la ville

In a modern context maybe
But if you're refereing to Greek/Italian city states, then "peuple" and "cité" are more accurate
Remember we're on the history board

>Cité is location, not city; peuple is like lowerclass folks, not everybody

You're an imbecile
Although "cité" is also used to refer to the muslim ghettos nowdays, it's more importantly a synonym for "ville" and the French word from which the English word "city" derivates
Can't believe I know French language better than actual French people like you

Hurr durr if I use insults and strong language what I say is true. How are muslim ghettos relevant here at all? It is simply not used in that sense, you are trying to make a point over looking at the facts.

>However, with the invasions of Romans and French Normans, the language earned a latin/romantic spin with many words with latin roots.

That's actually wrong
Romans had zero influence on English language, as the Anglo-Saxons arrived long after the Romans had left
The Romance influence in English is basically entirely French (except for very technical terms like "genus", "calculus"...etc that entered English in the Middle Age when Latin was the lingua franca).
Of course, buttdevasted Brits will sooner say that Romans and Anglo-Norman (lol) influenced their language than admit it was the French

Then I'd say Dutch lookst most like English. These are just basic Germanic words:

>A/an = Een (an and een have the same pronounciation)
>And = en (used to be ende in old Dutch)
>Help me = help me
>King = koning
>Dance = dans
>Thing = ding
>Thus = dus
>That = dat
>What = wat
>Plant = plant
>Than = dan
>Can = kan
>Castle = kasteel
>(to) Begin = begin (beginnen)
(>to) drink = drink(en)
>Water = water
>Warm = warm
>Sorry = sorry

I don't know if I buy that being a language. It's just an accent. I'm Irish, does the way I do be talking count as a language?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English

Sea

>French
>using modern terms for religions of Old
I bet you think it was the Belgians that won the battle of Golden Spurs, and Burgundy was inhabited by the Burgundians

It doesn't sound that different, but the distinction is made more obvious when written.

regions not religions

I'd say French lookst most like English. These are just basic words:

>Use = use
>Able = capable
>People = peuple
>City = cité
>Country = contrée
>Nation = nation
>Place = place
>Person = personne
>Point = point
>Number = nombre
>Forest = forêt
>River = riviere
>Mountain = montagne
>Language = langage
>Empire = empire
>Ocean = océan

You're a retarded faggot
The French people exists since the 9th century
Sure they didnt cover all of modern France, but everything in blue on pic related was French culturally and lingustically by 1066

Now, go back to watching your Lindybeige videos

Modern Scots is heavily anglicised. Scots in the 16th and 17th centuries was very much a language in its own right.

For example

>"Woufis an reiviris i the meith o the canreuch, caw ye fir mair soldatis ower the drom".

is

>"Wolves and bandits have stationed themselves at the boundary of the forest, please order for more soldiers from over the hill".

During the "heyday of Scots as a full national language", as David Murison puts it, Scots was widely regarded as being a language seperate from English in places like Denmark, Spain, Italy and France.

It most definitely isn't "just an accent", there are many lexical and morphological differences from English.

>"Wolves and bandits have stationed themselves at the boundary of the forest, please order for more soldiers from over the hill".

In French

>"Les loups et bandits ont stationnés leur selves à la bordure de la forest, s'il vous plaise orderez plus de soldats sur la colline".

>unified culture and accents in 1066
Sure m8, there was no lasting difference from William trying to make Normandy it's own thing so he wasn't a vassal of France

>>"Wolves and bandits have stationed themselves at the boundary of the forest, please order for more soldiers from over the hill".
>In French
>>"Les loups et bandits ont stationnés leur selves à la bordure de la forest, s'il vous plaise orderez plus de soldats sur la colline".
Is one of the things i like about english.
The vocabulary is very practical, a lot of words, there isn't a stupid sameness like combining two smaller words and then boom a new word, like in other germanic languages that don't have that many loan words

Incorrect. The proper French would be

>Des loups et des bandits sont stationne a la frontiere du foret. S'il vous plait, ordonnez plus de soldats sur la colline

Sorry for no accents, English keyboard.

>s'il vous plaise

>du foret

Yep, neither of you can speak French

;^[

I always get the genders wrong

Le Lesbian
La Homosexual
GOD DAMN SO HOMOPHOBIC YOU BAGGUETE EATING SURRENDER MONKEYS

Not all too close.

youtube.com/watch?v=hDJiHSFvm_o

>Meine Tochter milchte die Kühe
That`s wrong though.

Because the British have no bounds for lexical cuckoldry.
Literally can't be trusted to maintain the integrity of their own language.

>"Des loups et des bandits se sont stationnés à l'orée de la forêt. S'il vous plaît, demandez plus de soldats sur la colline".

Because English was raped by the French. Other than that it is very similar to Frisian and Platt.

gaelic=/=scots

>Meine Tochter milchte die Kühe
*Meine Tochter molk die Kühe

>>"Wolves and bandits have stationed themselves at the boundary of the forest, please order for more soldiers from over the hill".
>In French
>>"Les loups et bandits ont stationnés leur selves à la bordure de la forest, s'il vous plaise orderez plus de soldats sur la colline".
Oook.
>in norwegian
>"Ulver og banditter har stasjonert seg selv ved grensen til skogen, vær så snill å beordre mere soldater fra over åsen".
Boy this is fun.

>grensen til skogen
skovbryn

>banditter
>stasjonert
>beordre
>soldater

How did you end up with all these Romance words anyway?
English got French'd by the Normans, but what's your excuse?

Not that guy but I think they got it because latin was the lingua franca back in the day.

Also, French was the lingua franca of the military world for centuries
That's why words "soldat", "lieutenant" "commander", "cavalry", "armee", "station"...etc ended up being used by most Germanic (German, Dutch, Swedish, Danish and Norwegian) languages under varying forms

>a fucking ocean
>between England and mainland Europe

These are loanwords

He's right, you know

Then try to find a Germanic alternative for "use" or "able"

Old English does, not modern English though

You picked a sentence in French and incorrectly worded English so that they looked more similar than they actually are.

Pot, meet kettle.

Except not at all, cretin
This sentence in English is pefectly correct, it means the people is changing the way their city is, aka that the city is evolving because of the people

>people is
>people changes
Try again, faggot.

If Scots is a separate language, then so is Geordie or Scouse; they're just as strange, but still English.

Well, if you remove the "s" from change it makes it even more similar to the French one

You can't use singular verb inflections on plural nouns. It doesn't make sense and it's wrong. This is basic shit.

Scots has been historically regarded as a separate language, but Geordie or Scouse haven't

Not him, but 'people' *is* singular.

Geordie or Scouse dialects are comparable to Glasgow patter, but not Scots proper. Glasgow patter is a debased form of English, like Geordie and Scouse, but Scots and English separated over 700 years ago

Not really. Scots is an old offshoot of Northumbrian Old English. If went on its own course after the Northumbrians left, but it's still English.

No, Scots is descended from Middle English speakers brought in by the Norman kings of Scotland.

It's called Latin.

People are dumb
People is dumb

But I did point out the french, though I should have listed them first as the main contributor. However, you cannot say that the remnants of the Romans in Britain had no effect on the development of language. While the empire may have fallen early in British history, people still existed in that area who spoke the language.

What do you mean "not really"? It's a fact. Scots was considered to be a separate language to English in pretty much every major European country that had relations with both England and Scotland. Just off the top of my head, English, Irish, Danish, French, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Swedish and Dutch writers all considered the two to be separate languages.

The two languages were quite different at this point. It's not until the early 17th century that they start to become more similar again, due to James VI/I deciding to move his court to England and stop his patronage of Scots literature.

I would say that in its modern form Scots has been so anglicised that you could readily consider it a dialect of English, but historically it was thought of as its own language.

Both right, both wrong. Scots started off as the dialect of Old English spoken in the northern half of Northumbria, but started to diverge quite strongly in the 13th century and by the end of the 14th it was considered to be its own language. After this point people started to refer to it as "Scottis" rather than "Inglis".

The language was influenced by the reception of Anglo Saxon nobles at the Scottis court, but it was also influenced by the Northumbrians' interactions with the Cumbric-speaking Celts, the Gaels, the Norse-speaking Vikings, and with the establishment of the Burgh system, the Flemings, the Dutch, the French, the Danes and Germans.

why does it feel so "germanized"?

The whole sentence is wrong/feels weird.
A frog would understand you but there is no doubt, you are not a frog.

"Des loups et des bandits sont à l'orée de la forêt. Veuillez faire venir plus de soldats depuis la collinne" is the best I could do without context.

While it is true that "cité" is a synonym for "ville", it would most likely not be used in that context.
"cité" is used in urbanism and sociology, to refer to greek and roman cities and ghettos.
It is also more formal.

99% of the time, it's plural. In the context he used, it was plural, therefore wrong.

I mean, you're right. I was trying to keep as much of the same form as the first sentence as was possible.

>leur selves

wtf

>why does this germanic language less influenced by romance than its southern sibling sound so germanic

>culture and language
in 1880 80% of Frenchman didn't even speak proper Parisien (French)

Nice made up stuff
It's true that until the 19th century, a lot of French regions (aka those not in blue on the map) barely spoke French, but everything else is an exaggeration

>not knowing "people" can also be singular
The cretin is you. Go look it up in literally any dictionary and see for yourself.

but the context the og user used in his post was correct.

the people change the city.

in this case, the "people" is singular.

Romance languages are more similar to English than any other language.

Isn't dutch the closest language to English?

Frisian then Dutch.

There is and it's Dutch itself OP. Both English and Dutch are west ingaevonic Germanic languages and as far as I know the only two extant languages in that group remaining. English has some weirdness because of contact with the Dane law which changed our inflections and more or less eliminated gender, so it's harder to recognize as a Germanic language than Dutch is, but nevertheless it is our closest ancestor.

I've seen some arguments that whereas modern English is usually thought of as a Germanic language with some Romance words, it's really fundamentally a Romance-based language, albeit one which has retained some Germanic grammatical features. True, many shorter more common words today are of Anglo-Saxon origin, but as our French anons have demonstrated it's hardly just a few technical words that have been borrowed from French. French/Norman word roots form the plurality, if not majority, of the language. Also unlike many (though not all) Germanic languages but like Romance languages English has dropped case inflections and relies on word order.

Dumb frogposter

You can be stupid as fuck and still manage to learn English because its so similar. In many ways, it is closer than German.

T. Dutchman

>Low German
Mej Dochter melkt de kej

This graph is very misleading as it counts useless structure words such as "the", "to", "at"...etc, that, despite being irrelevant are very numerous in a sentence and exclusively Germanic

Now if you look only at words that give the sense to a text (Verbs/Adjectives/Nouns), it's easily 50/50 between French and Germanic
That's why an English text is generally more easily interunderstandable with its French version than with its German one

Look at pic related for exemple
The fact that "und" ressembles "and" and that "für" ressembles "for" wont help you to understand the general sense of the setence

Meanwhile, the fact a lot of adjectives and nouns in the French sentence are basically the same as in English will

Several of your translations are wrong

ah old norse, how I miss thee

Do you understand that just because we are saying that English is a Germanic Language does not mean that it is very similar to modern High German? There is more to a language than a high instance of loanwords.

As is trying to say, the number of words in the English language that are from Romance languages is misleading because the origins of an entire language's linguistic corpus does not reflect how the people that speak said language; most romance words in English, if they are not technical or limited to a professional field, tend to have a Germanic counterpart that are more often used unless there is a connotative difference between the two (think "Oversee" to "Supervise").

Here are outside sources to further note how English is a Germanic Language and why.

grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/01/why-is-english-a-germanic-language.html

linguistlist.org/ask-ling/message-details1.cfm?asklingid=200300664

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Classification

Oh, and I might as well quote parts of the second source I posted

"The only Romance language that requires that a declarative sentence have an
overt grammatical subject is French. And French borrowed that rigid
requirement from German."

"You find German verb order awkward. In this way English has become a bit
like the Romance languages. But an older form of English had the
nonconjugated forms at the ends of the sentence and the conjugated forms at
the ends of a subordinate clause, i.e. at the end of an embedded
sentence. Even today there are traces of this Germanic pattern in
English..."

>most romance words in English, if they are not technical or limited to a professional field, tend to have a Germanic counterpart that are more often used

It's actually the opposite most of the time

"People" is more used than "Folk"
"River" is more used than "Stream"
"Language" is more used than "Tongue"
"Because is more used than "As"
"Number" is more used than "Tally"
"Problem" is more used than "Pickle"
Etc....

English is a Germanic language with tons and tons of loanwords (some of which are germanic). The grammar is very much simpler than what Germanic languages originally had(and French has).

Literally what makes the language good.

English is basically Java.

English language is the result of a complete melting pot.
Celts, Romans, Germanic/Jutish migrations, Norses, Normands, further French-ification of the nobility...

English has been isolated from other Germanic languages for so long, and English has been "unified" as a written language for so long, that all the languages that were like it (Fareoese) are no longer intelligible, and all the related languages that would form "cousin" languages (Scots) are considered mere dialects, not languages.

I speak English and German fluently and I've noticed a tone of similarities to Dutch. If they speak slowly I can almost understand every word.

It's because Dutch too has a lot of French/Latin loanwords