>1940, right after defeat of France, Hitleersends his forces to Libya >1941, Instead of sending 3 million troops on Barbarossa, hitler sends them all to North Africa >completely overwhelms British forces, captures Suez Canal, cutting off British lifeline to its empire, economically strangling it >captures Gibraltar, cutting off British presence from Mediterranean >door to Middle East is now open, Hitler captures massive oil supplies, locals under Rashid Ali and Amin Husseini welcome him with open arms >now has enough oil to supply his armies, no need to attack Russia for oil or depend on Romania or trade with Russia for oil >Britain losing its lifeline to India is pretty much economically done for, might be forced to sue for peace >with no western front and hitler in a powerful position, Stalin would never dream of attacking Hitler, reducing need for preemptive strike >If anything, stalins continued aggression against Finland would have only isolated him from the allies, might even have joined axis >hitter doesn't go full retard in December and declare war on Roosejew, breaks off useless pact with Japan.
If I was Führer (and did the above) Germany would have definitely won the war. In fact it's exactly what Goering has tried to persuade Hitler to do.
Honest question, do you know what the word "logistic" means?
Bentley Bailey
...
Leo Rodriguez
>Hitler doesn't invade Soviet Union >soviets continue to build up their forces >after Hitler and the allies are exhausted fighting each other stalin invades all of europe It was called operation thunder.
Alexander Edwards
If he attacked at dunkirk he would have won north africa, operation sea lion would have been possible too.
Nolan Hughes
How is this army in the Mediterranean gonna get supplied with the royal navy on its ass
Easton Miller
>If I was Führer (and did the above) Germany would have definitely won the war
If not for Hitler then WW2 would have been a WW1 redux.
>On 10 October 1939, Britain refused Hitler's offer of peace and on 12 October, France did the same. Colonel-General Franz Halder (Chief of the General Staff of OKH), presented the first plan for Fall Gelb (Case Yellow) on 19 October. This was the pre-war codename of plans for a campaign in the Low Countries: the Aufmarschanweisung N°1, Fall Gelb (Deployment Instruction No. 1, Case Yellow). Halder's plan has been compared to the Schlieffen Plan, the name given to the German strategy of 1914 in the First World War.[25] It was similar in that both plans entailed an advance through the middle of Belgium. Aufmarschanweisung N°1 envisioned a frontal attack, sacrificing a projected half million German soldiers to attain the limited goal of throwing the Allies back to the River Somme. Germany's strength for 1940 would then be spent; only in 1942 could the main attack against France begin.[26] When Hitler raised objections to the plan and instead advocated for a decisive armoured breakthrough as had happened in the Invasion of Poland, both Halder and Army Commander-in-Chief General Walther von Brauchitsch attempted to dissuade him, arguing that while the fast-moving mechanised tactics were all well and good against a "shoddy" Eastern European army, they would not work against a first-rate military like the French.[27]
Dylan Gomez
, Instead of sending 3 million troops on Barbarossa, hitler sends them all to North Africa
How? There's no fucking roads. You can't take Egypt with Libya as your base, it's literally impossible. In the OTL, hundreds of thousands of tons of equipment were just left rotting in Libya's only viable port because there wasn't infrastructure to get it to the front.
>>hitter doesn't go full retard in December and declare war on Roosejew, breaks off useless pact with Japan.
The USA was going to go to war with Germany eventually anyway. Public opinion as early as 1940 was 91% in favor of the Allies, and the Germans had sunk American ships in the Atlantic. Hitler figured he may as well just get it over with and take advantage of what opportunities this would present him, correctly predicting that it would take around a year for the Americans to get their shit together and enter the European Theater in force, by which time they would have already declared war anyway.
It wasn't a choice of war vs peace. It was a choice of war vs war + Second Happy Time.
Ironic that you'd want to break off the pact with Japan. They'd be very useful in this plan by kicking the Brits out of Southeast Asia and threatening India.
Brayden Ramirez
They couldn't even properly supply the Afrika Corps, how are they going to support 3 million men?
>Sealion Of course this unpowered river barge will not sink when a RN destroyer sails past it Hans
Evan Thomas
The Afrika Corps was purposely denied full supply to assist Barbarossa. I don't know why you're bringing that up, it plays into OPs argument.
Bentley Rogers
As impressive as the Royal navy was, with next to no land forces force the british wouldnt be able to stop a land invasion
Henry Cook
stalin was a good boy, he wasnt planning nuffin.
You'd be stuck in Africa with the Royal Navy spancking you and Stalin would Waltz into Berlin.
Michael Perez
Yeah, I'm sure you're going to funnel 3,000,000 men into a region with shit ports and shit roads with the Italian merchant marine being your only supply line out of there, to march across the desert thousands of kilometers, with your naval supply lines under constant danger of attack by RN submarines.
John Bell
What about building a land bridge to England? I mean Alexander captured Tyre by making it part of the mainland, why can't it happen to England?
Kevin Perry
Summer 1942. Soviet Union invaded Germany. Germany fell after tough two months fight as bulk of Germany's army was fighting user's useless war in North Africa.
Hunter Collins
Do you honestly think that Germany would be stupid enough to launch an invasion the scale of Barbarossa into North Africa? This is the most strawman argument I've ever seen on Veeky Forums.
Ethan Torres
What happens after? I mean the Russians might decide to go all the way to France.
Ian Brooks
Right, so Hitler using the vastly superior and mighty Kriegsmarine sends all his forces to north africa, smashing the allied naval forces in the process, proceeds to push all the way into the middle east and the Luftwaffe manage to keep allied air from bombing all the oil fields. Of course, then the Heer manages to keep all the forces in British India at bay.
And what stops the Soviet war machine from storming over Europe?
Aiden Perez
>literally a "Germany would have won WW2 if I was Führer" episode ebin
Cameron Roberts
Nothing except Stalin would not have done that. It's possible. I mean he is from the future and knows the mistakes
Brayden Ortiz
I'm not sure how important Britain's Maritime supply lines were to it's continued war efforts. From what I remember reading it was incapable of feeding itself and millions would starve if all incoming trade ships were sunk.
Logically then the winning move for the Germans was completely cutting off trade via building more subs and aircraft, and directing all aircraft to ship interdiction; instead of the Battle of Britain and Barbarossa.
Jaxson Cox
>Stalin would not have done that.
Yeah, that'd really be out of character.
Mason Cooper
>Logically then the winning move for the Germans was completely cutting off trade via building more subs and aircraft
The winning move for Germany was having a superior pool of resources, manpower, industry, and advantageous geographical location.
1v1 they could have held their own against most, against everyone? They were fucked.
William Roberts
Unless German soldiers eat sand, I don't think this would be plausible.
Had he given Rommell the forces he asked for, than maybe. But still getting supplies to troops in Africa was always a challenge for the the Germans
Aaron Wright
It took Stalin 2 years to reach Berlin when he was at full strength and Germany was completely destroyed
What makes you think he would have reached Berlin without resistance? Germany still had many reserves in 1941.
John Richardson
Stalin could not take on fucking Finland, what makes you think he'd be able to take on Hitler at full strength? He would barely be able to reach Warsaw, it would have been Operation Mars on a large scale.
Jacob Bennett
What?
Never you mind the Soviets eventually beating the Axis forces, but with the majority of the Germans forces magicked into north africa?
Jace Miller
It's an elitist way of saying logical.
Alexander Wood
>but with the majority of the Germans forces magicked into north africa Strawman.
Jordan Butler
Stalin beat Germany after Germany had expended their best forces, was named by teens and elderly people, and was getting the daylight bombed out of it be the Americans. Stalin on his own would not have beaten Germany.
Aaron Myers
*was manned
William Garcia
>1941, Instead of sending 3 million troops on Barbarossa, hitler sends them all to North Africa
>Stalin beat Germany after Germany had expended their best forces,
Against the Soviets. On his own? What the fuck are you talking about?
Jayden Sullivan
Holy shit you tankies are retarded and know nothing about history. Go back to /r/fullcommunism and stop pretending you know anything about military history.
Ryder Flores
Yes they would have. The Germans did not believe they could get half as many men ashore as the British saved at Dunkirk. It's an issue of navy and air power. Not manpower. And of course lack of German ability to actually get men ashore regardless of resistance.
Juan Perez
>Germany spreads their troops across Europe and Africa. >The Soviets keep modernizing their army and doesn't have to switch their production around in 41 to keep their army going and get to properely organize their armies after the purge. >This will work out in Germanys favor.
Grayson White
Wow lad you're 16. Fuck off
Adrian Garcia
This kind of alternative history doesn't work because you are perceiving Hitler and his cronies as opportunisitc simple warmongers who only wanted to rule europe while putting aside all ideological aspects of why Hitler waged war One of the main tenets of National Socialism is the expansion of the German Reich towards the East as germans had done back in time, in order to acquire Lebensraum for an exponential growth of the germanic race in Europe. This project could only be realised by invading Poland and subsquentially the Soviet Union, and this was something on the mind of the Nazi leadership before they even thought of invading the West. National Socialism itself wouldn't make sense without the expansion in the east as the ultimate goal of it was to increase the well being of all germans, while a large scale invasion of North Africa would amount to almost nothing to the ordinary german citizen.
Juan Diaz
Yes they would. How do you think a naval invasion works?
Lucas Russell
The Red Army was a joke until they learned the lessons of 1941 and 1942 by having the shit kicked out of them by the Wehrmacht.
- Shitty pre-war tanks - Horrible political commissars fucking everything up at the tactical level
They didn't fix all that shit until 1943.
A Soviet invasion of Eastern Europe in 1941 or 1942 would have been a joke.
Noah Flores
>strawman Literally from the OP: >Instead of sending 3 million troops on Barbarossa, hitler sends them all to North Africa
Noah Gutierrez
Hahaha loses an argument and instantly resorts to "lel go back to r3ddit" Too typical
Brayden Lopez
Exept they learned their lesson in Finland. Failure of Barbarossa was result of that lesson. They were using KV tanks and were putting T34 as main tank when thing started, shity pre war tanks meme was only wishful thinking for Axis.
If 24 pages is too long for you, the tl;dr is that the Germans shipped about 1.8 million tons of supplies to Tripoli between March 1941-October 1942. They could only move a bare fraction of it out of tripoli, and as a result, DAK was pepretually running low on shit. Trying to move the entire Wehrmacht like that just ensures they all starve or run out of fuel and ammo.
Luke Foster
>with next to no land forces force the british wouldnt be able to stop a land invasion
Good thing they didn't have "next to no land forces".
