Record scratch

>Scotland outta nowhere

France and Scotland were allied to keep England in check.

Seriously what the fuck is the story behind this?

Sigh, I'm throwing away the last of my battery on enlightening a newfriend.
>pope gets butthurt at venetians and calls a "crusade"-type deal on them
>promises people their lands and shit
>France wrecking through Italy and pretty much the only power of the coalition left so will have all the clay
>pope goes "oy Christendom" and backstabs France to hinder their power in the region
>turns the coalition against France
>Venice allies with France because fuck being allied with the pope that called a coalition against them
ETERNAL POPE

>implying both the Pope and the Venetians weren't at fault here
Italians not even once

Crusade against Venice starts, Venetian land is distributed among participants. France does all the fighting (at least all the winning) so it decides it will keep more of the land. The other crusader states disagree, so they attack France to deal with her while she is still at war with Venice, effectively making them allies of Venice. Venice strikes a deal with France to get all its land back, so it joins the French side of this new conflict. Scotland, whos independence from England France is guaranteeing, sends a contingent to help, since at this point the war is a defensive one for France, not the initial offensive one against Venice.

A lot of snail and frog eaters died, and Venice lost it all and then regained it all in the period of a couple of years.

It is very similar to the Balkan War in that way.

Serbia, Greece, Montenegro and Bulgaria declare war on Ottoman Turkey.
They win the war, but because Italy had annexed Albania, which was promised to Greece, Greece won't give away southern Macedonia. And because Greece won't give away Southern Macedonia, Serbia won't give away the northern part. So Bulgaria attacks them, but because Bulgaria didn't give Romania Southern Dobrugea (for staying neutral in this war instead of aiding its allies in Ottoman Turkey), Romania invades. The Ottoman Turks seeing this shit go down, break the truce and also invade Bulgaria.

It turned from a coalition against Ottoman Turkey to a coalition against Bulgaria.

Greece was never going to give away southern Macedonia, especially Thessalonica

Thessaloniki wasn't even majority Greek. It was majority Turkish, with a very large Jewish minority.
The Bulgarian king had already turned the council building there into a palace for himself, and had negotiated with the Jewish leaders that the city will become the new capital of Bulgaria.
He was expected there, which is why the Turkish commander, when the army was defeated and the Bulgarians were on their way, surrendered to the Greeks specifically, before the Bulgarians take it. The rationale was, at least Turkish sources write so, that Greece is weaker and the city can be taken from Greece easier than it can be taken from Bulgaria.

We have to remember that Ottoman Turkey was at war with Italy at the time as well, not just the Balkan States. Its forces were poorly deployed, and it was exhausted, surely it thought temporarily losing cities to the Greeks is fine as they will be reclaimed.

>Venice starts eating up small northern Italian cities
>Pope isn't down with it and brings in allies
>France decides they want to eat northern Italian cities while beating up Venetians
>Former French allies aren't down with that and join Venice's side
>the Eternal Venetian and France ask why they're fighting when they can just split the northern Italian cities between one another
>France and Venice are now allies

And that's the War of the League of Cambrai

>Thessaloniki wasn't even majority Greek. It was majority Turkish, with a very large Jewish minority.
Irrelevant, the Jews and Turks moved in afterwards when the Ottomans conquered the city. That doesn't change the fact there was Greek presence in it, even though had been reduced.

>The Bulgarian king had already turned the council building there into a palace for himself, and had negotiated with the Jewish leaders that the city will become the new capital of Bulgaria.
A city that has never been claimed by the Bulgarians would become their capital. Right.
>The rationale was, at least Turkish sources write so, that Greece is weaker and the city can be taken from Greece easier than it can be taken from Bulgaria.
Then they should've already done when they had the chance.

>We have to remember that Ottoman Turkey was at war with Italy at the time as well, not just the Balkan States. Its forces were poorly deployed, and it was exhausted, surely it thought temporarily losing cities to the Greeks is fine as they will be reclaimed.
Awful, awful excuse. The Ottoman empire was still stretching from the Balkans to Arabia and you're telling me that they couldn't take care of 4 small nations?

Yet the point stands that Greece was never going to give away southern Macedonia. Thessalonica wasn't majority Greek but the rest of southern Macedonia was.

You are talking emotionally instead of rationally.

Those "four small states" fielded armies twice the size of the Turkish one. And many of the Turkish soldiers were in Egypt, because the Italians were fighting for Libya.
The most modern and well defended fortress the Ottomans had in Europe was taken by storm by the Bulgarians within a day.

The Ottomans had to be "saved" by the great powers forcing a peace, since they didn't want Russia's puppets on the Balkans to get too strong, and Russia to be able to move its Black Sea fleet freely into the Mediterranean Sea.

It was very sensible for the Ottomans to give cities to the Greeks rather than the Bulgarians, considering the land, population, and allegiances of these kingdoms. Bulgaria was a Russian creature, and Greece a British one. Britain was always more friendly towards Turkey than Russia.

Only because Venice itself was unassailable (or at least unless you have a really strong fleet, which the League hadnt)

Just for you, user (though the part with the Scotts is stupid)

WAR OF THE LEAGUE OF CAMBRAI THREAD? HERE WE GO

At first, you really have to go back a bit, as it was already the third italian war.
In the first, France, fresh from the 100YW and the burgundian bullshit, was bored half to death and decided to invade the kingdom of naples in 1495, because why not. From a military point of view it worked flawlessly because Italians cant into war, but in every other aspect it was a fucking desaster. The Pope and Venice united every single italian state (including the pro-french ones), as well as the HRE and Spain into a league, at which point the french king hurried to get himself and his army back to France and the troops he left in Naples were easily btfo by the Venedians and the Spaniards.
Venice, being the sea jews they are, kept the harbours they "liberated" for themselfs though. Naples had other problems, so the reinstalled king didnt mind too much.

Okay, that didnt worked too well. In 1499 the next french king, gave it another try, but actually went diplomatically on the whole adventure.
First, he got the Pope on his side, promising french help to carve a Borgia domain out of the Papal States. Second, he decided to actually part Naples in two with the Spanish. Third he went for the Duchy of Milan first.
Finally, he allied with Venice by giving some of the milanese towns to them.

The second italian war worked great at first, with Milan conquered, Pope and Venice pro-french; and the actual invasion of Naples going just fine. It was at this point though, that things kinda fell apart.
Both France and Spain couldnt decide which parts of Naples each one would get; the Pope died and the new one, Julius II, was rather neutral and kicked the pro-french Borgias out, and fucking Venice actually aided Spain despite being supposedly neutral or even allied. When war finally broke out in Naples, the French were BTFO hard, and the Spanish -not willing to restore the Kingdom of Naples again only for these incompetent fucktards to lose it again in the future- decided to take the kingdom for themselfs.
France had enough and didnt want the war to escalate, so they satisfied themselfs with Milan.

So in the end, you have Spain in southern italy. France and Venice in northern italy. A strong Papal State in the middle.
Everyone agreed that the borders were pretty nice now and that this is how Italy should look like from now on.

Now things actually became complicated.
France and Spain kept the peace, so thats that.
The Pope Julius II wanted to finish the work of his predecessors and unite the Papal States. He conquered Bologna in 1507, which left venetian-controlled Ravenna. He couldnt attack it directly (Venice was too strong, and besides still allied with France) so he asked nicely. Unsurprisingly he was told pretty blundly to fuck off.
At the same time the HRE got involved. On paper they still had feudal rights over northern italy, which was formally part of the """empire""". The emperor Maximilian thus noted that the French cant rule Milan, because they were not invested by him. Obviously noone gave a fuck. Out of frustration he started a war with the Swiss and was raped hard. This really really sucked.

But it was a nice opportunity now for the Pope. He offered to crown Maximilian as emperor so long as he comes down to Italy himself. Because neither France nor Venice would let him pass, he had to take the path of least resistance and go through venedian clay. At this point he also remembered that all of north-eastern italy did not belong to Venice but the HRE. The Pope, while officially being not involved, tried his best to ignite an imperial-venedian war to pressure the Venetians to give up Ravenna, so they could get the Pope on their side.

As it turned out, the conflict was over before it began, because the imperial armies were completely destroyed by some hastily raised venetian mercenary army.
well, fuck,

At was at that point, in the autumn of 1508, that it get interesting.
The HRE was humiliated. The Pope tried to look for another way to get Ravenna. Venice looked stronger then ever.
At that point Pope Julius II remembered a curious detail: When the Frenchies took over Milan they did it in the name of being the rightous heirs of a milanse dynasty that had died out some 6 decades ago. But this dynasty had ruled all of Lombardy, not only the part the current dynasty did (which was now french controlled clay). The other half was venedian.

So he went to the french king and proposed they take over their rightful half of lombardy as well. Normally the king would have declined, because France didnt want a third italian war. But the Pope now pointed out, that the >H>R>E would probably join in as well to get their vengeance; that his Papal States would unite the minor italian powers to go with the whole alliance, and even Spain would be neutral, because they had a grudge as well and wanted the adriatic ports back (you know, they ones Venice kept from the first Italian War)

Even better, noone had competing claims: Spain got its harbours. The Pope got Ravenna. Ferrara and Mantua got some clay stolen from them by the sea jews some decades ago. France got Lombardy. The HRE got Venedo. Everyone was happy.
In December of 1508 the League of Cambrai was founded as an european alliance against Venice (Hungary was invited to conquer Dalmatia; England was invited as as well for some reasons. Both declined though)

The fun started directly in the spring of 1509.
Venice knew something was in the woods, but was surprised by the scope of the alliance.
Despite this, there was nothing to fear too much. Ravenna was well defended. The HRE was a joke. Spain actually wanted their harbours but not to fight. This means, that Venice placed both of its armies on the Adda, the official border to the french Duchy of Milan.

The frenchies got their armies over the Adda unfortunately, at which point the two italian armies -with orders to NOT fight any pitched battles- withdrew a bit.
The rearguard was attacked by french cav though. They were on a muddy hill, so neither the french cav nor their swiss troops could do much harm. One venetian army went back to help their bros out, but at this point they somehow evolved the clash into a full battle, and while the hillside was still easily defended; the French brought the rest of their great army here, surrounded the whole hill, and then destroyed the venetian army.
Thus, with one battle at Agnadello, the Venetians had just lost the whole war on the very first day.

The second army fled in panic and then dissolved (remember, its just mercenaries). All of Lombardy surrendered to the French. All of mainland Veneto wanted to surrender to the HRE (but actually had to go to Austria, because there were still no german troops to surrender to anywhere near Italy).
Ferrara + Papal States, about to besiege Ravenna, got handed the city for free. The Adria ports surrendered to Spain.
Goddamnit.

The war should be over, right? Well, its not that easy.
There was no direct attack on the city of Venice, so they had a bit time to rebuild their army during the summer, then placed them inside the major city of Padua.
Finally the imperial army arrived on the scene, then instantly whined for french help. France send some of their heavy cav, which helped in the siege of Padua. The emperor still couldnt pay his troops so it was decided to storm the city, which should be led by the french knights. They politely pointed out, thats a city that the HRE wanted to conquer. They would gladly help and all, but the Germans had to do at least some of the fighting as well.
Well, the emperor shrugged his shoulders then raised the siege and went back to Germany.

Both agreed to try again next year, but the French now insisted, if they really should do the work for the HRE, then they also should keep some fortresses there (which was something the emperor was willing to accept, he only wanted the cities)
But it really looked like the French were coming out to be the big winners. They got the largest share secured (if everything went right the Imperials would get more, but it didnt), they were on the way of getting even more. The HRE as supposed counterweight in northern italy was a joke.

So the Pope got a bit worried and decided to end the war here and now. He made peace with Venice (getting Ravenna for himself and the adriatic harbours for Spain), promised them help against imperial and french schemes and declared the War of the League of Cambrai over. France should be content with a single city or so and the venedian-imperial question was laid on ice.

I hope you have checked my double dubs
__
Needless to say, neither France nor the HRE was too thrilled and continued the war to get all the clay they had been promised.
Also, Ferrara was pretty pissed. They had helped in the siege of Ravenna (actually even now the papal army was commanded by the Duke of Ferrara) but just now the Pope had promised Venice to not cede anymore of their clay.

When they complained in Rome, that it really is not nice to get shit on like that; the Pope responded by excommunicating the Duke and declared that Ferrara is rightful papal clay.

He also opened a Holy League against France, to end the french tyrrany in Italy. Even Spain and the HRE went WTF? The French had occupied exactly the towns that the Pope had promised him, not more. So the League was a failure, that noone took seriously and the Pope was seen as some huge asshole.

The summer campaign of 1510 went on despite all political biggering in the background: The French took the city of Viacenza and handed it to the Imperials; then both would try another siege of Padua. The Imperials were late and without even half the promised numbers, so the French had enough and withdrew.
The Venetians counterattacked, retaking Viacenza, but failed at Verona (the only city still hold by the Imperials in Veneto)

The Pope meanwhile was serious about Ferrara; capturing the major ferrarese city of Modena, and in a winter siege took Mirandola, which secured the way to Ferrara.

At this point the French had enough of the papal shit. They marched their army directly towards Modena, surprised and destroyed the papal army, had the Ferrarese attack and disperse the venetian troops around their city and then the two launched a two-pronged french-ferrarese attack against the papal HQ in Bologna.
The pope could flee Bologna at the last second, but the city revolted and went independent again under french protection.

While everyone agreed that the Pope had it coming, everyone also became concerned about the French becoming too powerfull. Spain decided to send a purely defensive army to secure the Papal States and prevent any attack on Rome itself.
The HRE became also kinda worried that they are """"helping""" the French too much and maybe by joining a spanish-papal-venedian alliance they would get the cities they want in the Veneto peacefully.
Lastly, the Swiss decided to demand all the milanese alpine clay for themself and threatened to join the papal Holy League otherwise. The French told them to fuck off, but it meant they now had no swiss mercenaries anymore.

Things looked bad? Well, here comes the Eternal Anglo, happily announcing his willingness to join any war against France, if Spain or the HRE fully turned against them.

England appeared out of nowhere when the coalition turned against France (fighting in coalitions against France is England's favorite pastime)

And then Scotland appeared as a response to Englabd's appearance

In the winter of 1511/12 a swiss army came down the Alps, but the new french governeur Gaston de Foix just shadowed them and cut their supply lines, forcing them to withdrew.
Despite this, the official royal order was to give back multiple troops for the defense of the homeland, while the rest probably will soon go unpaid because there was no money to spare for the italian campaign anymore

Foix knew that if the italian situation should not completely collapse, he had to end the war right now. So he took the whole army in a winter campaign down to Bologna, only to hear that formerly venetian occupied cities like Brescia were revolting in his back. Tricking the spanish-papal army that he still is around Bologna, he hurried back, destroyed the venetian army coming to help Brescia on the way, then brought down Brescia and instantly shifted back to Bologna.

This was early 16th century, so rapid marching and manouver warfare were pretty unknown, so there was real confusion among the Holy League, what the hell is going on? Didnt the French withdrew into defensive positions? Arent they fighting in Brescia? Why then is there a massive army marching from Bologna into the Papal States??

Foix also knew that time plays for the enemy, so he fainted an attack on Ravenna, speculating that the Pope would never allow the city to fall and would pressures the unwilling Spanish into accepting battle. The plan worked flawlessly.
The Battle of Ravenna was the most bloody and largest one of the war, which was for some time undecided and then going the spanish way. At that point french and ferrarese guns opened up from the side on the Spaniards, while the french cav circled around and fell onto the backs of the papal-spanish army, destroying it for good.

At the end of the day 18k man were dead and all the trained spanish troops in italy wiped out. It was the hugest possible victory, opening the way to Rome and Naples and might have won the war if played well.
There was just a minor problem: While following the fleeing enemies, darkness fell and Gaston de Foix run directly into a larger group of soldiers, getting an arquebus shot directly into his face.

The french morale, after hearing that their potentially napoleon-tier commander was dead, collapsed instantly. The new commander took Ravenna (which was NOT the goal of the campaign at all, seriously who gives a fuck about Ravenna), then retreated back to Milan.

At the same time, in summer of 1512, the Spanish invaded the french-ruled Kingdom of Navarre in the Pyrenaen, an english army landed in Spain to invade southern France (though was told by the spanish king to do it themselves, at which point the english army mutineed) and new spanish troops were shipped to Naples.
The remaining french troops in Milan were mostly called back, and the rest would maybe be able to block the newly formed shitty papal-spanish army, but not at the same time a potential venedian attack from the East.
As it turned out, it was the Swiss who moved first. 20k pikesman descended from the north, taking Milan and installing a swiss puppet, while the last of the french troops fled over the Alps back to France.

Somehow, the French had won the decisive battle but lost the war.

The spanish army meanwhile took Florence and collapsed the pro-french republic. The papal army retook Ravenna, then Bologna, then took Modena, at which point Ferrara capitulated. The HRE certainly didnt want to fight for french sake and abandoned them, joining the Holy League

The Holy League began in autumn to negotiate the post-war situation. The Pope wanted (and got) Ravenna, but also wanted Ferrara+Modena and southern Milan. The swiss wanted a puppet state in Milan, which was accepted, but also keep some of the venetian towns in lombardy. The HRE wanted to keep Verona and get Vicenza or Padua from the Venetians.

The Venetians logically complained that they were the only ones to fight the French from the beginning, were content to lose Ravenna and the southern ports, but would not accept losing further important cities in the north.
The Pope just told them to shut up, unless they wanted a new League of Cambrai.

The French now saw their chance: They promised to restore the status quo when the Venedians join them in a new alliance with them. Venice, having nothing to lose, agreed.

In May 1513 the french army came back over the Alps into Lombardy, besieging Novara (the last major town before Milan), while the Venedians retook Brescia on the Adda from the imperial garrison.
The French were mostly concerned about the papal-spanish army in the south, but didnt really expect the Swiss to be a major problem. Well, they should have.
A swiss relief army appeared in the night at Novara, united with the garrison and then attacked the french camp in the morning. The result was a massacre, as the french army was destroyed and Milan secured.

The nightmare didnt end here. While an english army landed in Calais, beginning to plunder northern france together with an imperial army from Flanders and all french attention was to the north, the victorious Swiss went over the Alps themselves invading french burgundy.

Faced with too many enemies to deal with, the french king surrendered all italian ambitions, recognising Milan as swiss and made peace with them, the Pope , Spain and the HRE followed (at which point the english hurried back to their island, because they never want to fight any war alone)

The only open question was Venice.
While the french position collapsed, an imperial-spanish army went into Veneto, futily besieged yet again Padua, actually went directly in front of Venice themself, then returned without any tangible results back south.
Venice saw her one-time opportunity and having preserved their army just for that, surprised the Spanish-Imperials at La Motta. Naturally, Landsknechte and proto-Tercios against Italians was kinda unfair, even when all other factors were in favour of the Venetians. The result was a complete desaster for Venice, which also lost Vicenza to the victors again.

The next year, 1514, saw the same: Venice trying to gain back Verona; the Imperials being incompetent, Spain sending a small army, which was not able or willing to put too much pressure on Venice alone.

The Pope Julius II had also died the previous year and the next one didnt care for the war in general.

But exactly at new year, the french king died. The next one, Francis I, made it clear from the beginning that Milan was his by right and he will continue the italian war and that Venice should hold on.

In the summer 30k French moved into Italy, while the Venedians mobilized all their man on the lombard border. The papal-spanish army was facing the Venedians, not sure if they wanted to fight the French (they were at peace on paper). The Swiss tried to throw all men they had to the south.

The Swiss were really unsure if they wanted to fight France, because Francis offered them the alpine valleys they wanted for free if they gave back the rest of the Duchy.
The French were encamped at Marignano, but planned for their move against the papal-spanish in southern milan, hoping that the swiss situation in Milan proper would resolve itself on its own.

The Swiss then rememberd Novara and tried exactly the same by launching a surprise attack at Marignano. It almost worked, but descended in a bloody struggle the rest of the day.
Next morning the fighting continued with the French on the point of breaking, when the venedian cavalry appeared on the scene.
The Swiss had enough, trying to get from the field, while getting blasted by artillery.
The Battle of Marignano was actually pretty well fought from the Swiss, they were the better army and did not break even in defeat. But it caused massive casualties for them, over 9k, and as a small nation with a highly trained army, they just couldnt stomach these kind of losses.

In the aftermatch, they made peace with France (getting their valleys even). Spain had also enough and France recognized papal control over Modena, and forced the Pope to give back southern Milan.

This just left Venice.
The french army retook Brescia and Venice retook Viacenza from the Imperials, but both failed in a year long blokade/siege of Verona with heavy casualties.
In the end, the HRE conceded defeat and gave Verona to their spanish ally as payment for their help, which gave the city to France as part of the peace, which in turn gave it back to their venedian ally.

So we had 8 years of war, a clusterfuck of alliances, and many of the richest and largest cities of Italy devastated, and at the end, their was not much change.
The Pope got Ravenna and Spain some ports that it didnt even need. The lombard border at the Adda was a bit moved in favour of the French and the Swiss got some valleys. Thats it.

In the next Italian War, some five years later, France would lose Milan for good and both Venice and the Papal States were cucked into submission by Charles V, emperor of the HRE and king of Spain.
France would fight on, but after 8 Italian Wars even they had enough. Venice would turn eternally neutral on the mainland, while concentrating fully on their fight against the Turks at sea (not that it helped much)

Didn't the French and Imperial army besiege Padua together?

At the beginning, but since 1513 the >H>R>E had joined the Holy League, meaning they were enemies of France.

So yes, the French helped at first defend imperial Verona from venedian attacks; but in the end helped besiege Verona for the Venedians

Thanks user. You people are the reason i keep coming back here.

good thread. Thanks for the posts lad

ENRICO DANDALLDILDO YOU SON OF A BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBITCH

very amusing summary, many thanks

This was pretty good read, thanks!

Julius II is legit one of the biggest scumbags to ever be Pope and the War of the League of Cambrai can basically be summed up as Julius being willing to fuck up the rest of Italy so long as he got Romagna. He had earlier invited Maximilian I into Italy to try and take cities from Venice and the Venetian condottieri blew him out.

Bartolomeo d'Alviano is pretty great.

>everyone is switching sides
>somehow only Venice is bad tho

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I flipped Kasim on his back and raised his hairy legs in the air while pumping my cock into his asshole. He just lay there and took it like the bitch he was. I always knew that underneath all their religious craziness and macho swagger, Muslim guys were punks and Kasim Muhammad was definitely living proof. Khadija joined us after donning a shiny alabaster strap-on dildo. Kasim had been screaming non-stop as I pounded his well-lubricated but nevertheless tight ass with powerful thrusts of my thick Irish cock. Khadija silenced him by stuffing his mouth with her strap-on dildo. Obediently he began sucking her dildo with the same passion he sucked my cock earlier. Khadija and I high-fived each other as we filled Kasim's holes with our respective pricks. Khadija seemed to really enjoy helping me dominate her husband, and I was thankful for her help. Not that I needed it, of course, but having it did help make things extra special.

I continued to relentlessly pound Kasim's ass until I felt just about ready to cum. I pulled out of him and removed my condom. I was about to tell Kasim to get ready but his darling wife, the Somali beauty known as Khadija beat me to the punch. She ordered him to get on his knees and he complied, kneeling before me. Before I could say anything Kasim grabbed my cock and greedily sucked it, draining me of every last drop of cum. He licked my cock and balls like his life depended on it. A Black Muslim male slut sucking the thick white cock of a dominant white male in front of his bossy Black Muslim wife. Now THAT is definitely not something you see every bloody day. And now, the piece de resistance, if you will.

I ordered Khadija to kneel before me and the tall and chubby, big-bottomed Somali woman obeyed my command. I made her polish my thick cock with her succulent mouth while Kasim watched. Afterwards, I put on a condom then bent Khadija over, face down and ass up. I thrust two fingers into her wet, hairy pussy. I tasted them, and smiled. She tasted so damn good. Muslim pussy from Somalia is delicious. Small wonder Muslim men are so possessive of them. They don't want Christian men like myself to get a taste. That's why they call us kuffars or infidels. They're afraid of us. I began fucking Khadija right in front of Kasim. I slammed my cock deep into her pussy, making her squeal just like I made her husband squeal as I fucked him in the ass earlier. Kasim watched with wide eyes as I ravaged his wife by pounding her really hard with my thick white cock.

History is crazy

>I like to flip the script and dominate black instead, you know?
I laughed way more than I should have at that sentence
all in all 9/10 breddy gud pasta

Why were the french so warlike? When I read texts about nearly every european period, the french are at it again

we were trying to have a nice discussion in here pal

They are trying to keep peace and balance in a world where Perfidious Albion and the Eternal Teuton are at large

/pol/ - Closeted Cuckoldry

French spirit. Latin passion mixed with gallic stubbornness and sprinkled with german autism

...

Huge population + desire for expansion + land borders with Spain, the HRE, Italy, Switzerland, the Low Countries with England right over the channel.

>desire for expansion
That is just anglo and teuton propaganda. Most of the wars fought by France were defensive, to bring much needed stability to the continent or reclaim land that belonged rightfully to them.

bümp

More like why does everyone wants to go at war with France ?
I get it we have the best food, wine and women but give it a rest.

This is how i want to learn history. Thank you very much user for doing the real job

It's a big, important part of europe, surrounded by generally hostiles countries, and ambitious itself. Makes sense

>implying french people don't consider the entire earth as rightful french clay

Nice try frog.

Regarding that, can someone /r/ me the picture with stereotypes about every european nations, their spirit animal, the way they'll die, ect?

...

Thanks! Frogs really do love dem wars