In retrospect, was the Christianization of Europe a mistake?

>I could agree on being a happy Pagan worshiping nature and doing occasional orgies to praise the gods. I'm European, why should I pray to the desert gods?

Most of the people in Europe, at least under the Roman Empire, worshiped a myriad of non European desert cults, the old Greco-Roman pantheon was practically dead, they celebrated Isis, that faggot with the bull and the cap, Sol Invictus, the Imperial cult e.t.c. So the argument that Christianity destroyed muh ancient European religions is bullshit.

There were and are dozens of political factions of Europe, sometimes they war against each others, sometimes they made treaties. That got nothing to do with religion or the church in particular. And the crusades would have never happened if the Europeans stayed Pagan in the first place.
>unified Europe
>in the early medieval

This. The historical illiteracy of neopagans is laughable. Yet they're all too happy to simply paint Christianity as some sort of Jewish invasion (Ironically Christianity was the biggest thing in opposition to the Jews at this time, with the many pagan sects being more supportive or indifferent) because it fits with the fabricated narrative they've devised for themselves.

Well, first I'm not from the Roman empire, second whats that got to do with it, everybody hat the cult he liked and his set of gods and then the monotheists come and force you to worship Baby Jesus from the Jews. Well thanks a lot!

>So the argument that Christianity destroyed muh ancient European religions is bullshit.
It should be pointed out that the exchange of ideas was steadily traveling from Europe to Asia since these places were populated by humans. "Pure European religion" is probably as big a meme as "pure races."

>Well, first I'm not from the Roman empire
The cult of ISIS traveled as far as Germania, Tacitus reports this. Asian beliefs and religions weren't confined to the borders of the Roman Empire as people move around and absorb ideas they like.

I suppose you might be from bumfuck nowhere in the Baltics, in which case boo hoo.

>Celts did celt
>Germanics did german
>Slavs did slav
>Balts did balt
>Romans did parthenon
>Greeks did greek parthenon

How was that bad?

>The cult of ISIS traveled as far as Germania,
So the Germans around 400 where all devout Isis worshipers?
kys Christfag

The point is your "pure German religion" is a fake meme invented by romantics in the 19th century.

>your "pure German religion"
Never claimed that, homo. But I do it now, even if there where some Isis cool aid drinkers somewhere with Tacitus doesn't change the fact that a Germanic religion existed in large parts of northern Europe and it was forcefully destroyed by Christianity.

>a Germanic religion existed
A hodgepodge of primitive beliefs that impressed no one, especially the Germans themselves.

>Bitching that the Romans converted the savages to the north
wew. What else should they have done nordcuck?

>there were dozens of political factions of Europe

Yeah, obviously. Where did I argue that they didn't?

>that got nothing to do with religion

One: you sound uneducated.
Two: It does Being that most conferences were held under the church's decree for peace.

>the crusades would have never happened if the Europeans stayed Pagan.

But the Crusades did happen. Stop arguing fictional history.

>the Romans converted the savages to the north
Wanna try again? Maybe first read a bit on history and who converted whom?

Enlighten me.

>One: you sound uneducated.
Thanks, but then I am not the one claiming there was a culturally unified Europe in the early medieval.
>Two: It does Being that most conferences were held under the church's decree for peace.
Yes, and if there would have been no Church, people just would have meet under a different decree.

enough of the Greek pantheon (Hecate, for example but many others) originated in Asia that your point is almost moot.

Well how about the fact that the main wave on Christianization in middle and northern Europe started long after the fall of the Roman empire?

>enough of the Greek pantheon (Hecate, for example but many others) originated in Asia that your point is almost moot.
So what does that have to do again with the Christianization of Europe?
>nothing
>zero
>nada

>The Roman people disappeared just because the empire gradually fell
>Eastern Roman Empire wasn't kicking and converting people like the rus.
wew

Sorry hombre, check the OP post next time, the map maybe gives you a good indication what we are talking about and where you can put Byzantine in that discussion.

>met under a different decree

Please tell me which decree would this fantasy world of yours meet under????

Again stop arguing fictional history... it never happened.

>Culturally Unified Europe in early middle ages?

Again where did I argue this??

I said once the church centeralized which was around the millennium, it gave Europe an identity.

So basically, if parts of Italy and the Balkans want, for whatever reasons become Christian, fine, but why convert northern Europe? They could be happy Pagans today. Pretty much shows that it was a mistake, people leaving the Christian faith en masse. Nordic countries are the most atheist in the world and Paganism has a renaissance now the Church has lost all influence.

>Please tell me which decree would this fantasy world of yours meet under????
The same decree they met under before Europe was Christianized, it is not that they lived in constant warfare amongst each others.

>I said once the church centeralized which was around the millennium, it gave Europe an identity.
Implying it hadn't had an identity before, it just changed that identity towards the late roman artificial state religion. Europe would still be Europe, just with diverse religions. Most crusades where to the east to subdue Pagans anyways.

Christianity is a pagan religion

>As if that's a bad thing

>So basically, if parts of Italy and the Balkans want, for whatever reasons become Christian, fine, but why convert northern Europe? They could be happy Pagans today. Pretty much shows that it was a mistake, people leaving the Christian faith en masse. Nordic countries are the most atheist in the world and Paganism has a renaissance now the Church has lost all influence.
That's part of their own failings. Not the Church.

>The Pope and Protestant churches are condoning the letting in of 1,000's of unwashed Arabs, blacks and other shitskins who rape European women and steal from us in the shape of welfare

I'm gonna say it was a mistake.

Was God, at any time, dumb, deaf, or empty from any word or spirit?

If you call constant raiding from Tribes across the continent untill they were eventually too spread thin or drunk with money and got overtaken by an opposing army a decree for peace then sure. Even if you argue Rome's policies and power, but then again they turned Christin too.

>it is not that they lived in constant warfare

Oh ok because you said ealier they were waring on eachother forever...???

So now your contradicting yourself? Which is it?

Admit it you have no idea what you're talking about.

>implying it hadn't had an identity before.

No it really didn't.
>raiding tribes (vikings, slavs, germanics, muslims)
>split waring kingdoms (spain, england, italy)
>multiethnic states barley coexisting (spain again, pretty much all of eastern europe)

Europe was a shit storm, it had no identity as a domain until Christianity centeralized.

>totally not the church who sent crusades to convert the heathens in northern Europe.

>Oh ok because you said ealier they were waring on eachother forever...???
>So now your contradicting yourself? Which is it?
It didn't change, they had the same amount of war and peace before and after Christianizations.

>This has proved to be a popular message. The Harvard psychologist and linguist Steven Pinker’s The Better Angels of Our Nature: a history of violence and humanity (2011) has not only been an international bestseller – more than a thousand pages long and containing a formidable array of graphs and statistics, the book has established something akin to a contemporary orthodoxy. It is now not uncommon to find it stated, as though it were a matter of fact, that human beings are becoming less violent and more altruistic. Ranging freely from human pre-history to the present day, Pinker presents his case with voluminous erudition. Part of his argument consists in showing that the past was more violent than we tend to imagine. Tribal peoples that have been praised by anthropologists for their peaceful ways, such as the Kalahari !Kung and the Arctic Inuit, in fact have rates of death by violence not unlike those of contemporary Detroit; while the risk of violent death in Europe is a fraction of what it was five centuries ago. Not only have violent deaths declined in number. Barbaric practices such as human sacrifice and execution by torture have been abolished, while cruelty towards women, children and animals is, Pinker claims, in steady decline. This “civilising process” – a term Pinker borrows from the sociologist Norbert Elias – has come about largely as a result of the increasing power of the state, which in the most advanced countries has secured a near-monopoly of force. Other causes of the decline in violence include the invention of printing, the empowerment of women, enhanced powers of reasoning and expanding capacities for empathy in modern populations, and the growing influence of Enlightenment ideals.

relates to modern states, not to early medieval Europe. In fact, Christianization was not peaceful but 600 years of brutal wars to spread the religion of peace.

>the same amount

Hahahahah gtfo. You really don't have any idea what you're talking about.

One soul cannot be due to two masters—God and Cæsar. And yet Moses carried a rod, and Aaron wore a buckle, and John (Baptist) is girt with leather and Joshua the son of Nun leads a line of march; and the People warred: if it pleases you to sport with the subject. But how will a Christian man war, nay, how will he serve even in peace, without a sword, which the Lord has taken away? For albeit soldiers had come unto John, and had received the formula of their rule; albeit, likewise, a centurion had believed; still the Lord afterward, in disarming Peter, unbelted every soldier. No dress is lawful among us, if assigned to any unlawful action.

—Tertullian, On Idolatry Chapter 19: Concerning Military Service

>Hello ISIS

A soldier of the civil authority must be taught not to kill men and to refuse to do so if he is commanded, and to refuse to take an oath. If he is unwilling to comply, he must be rejected for baptism. A military commander or civic magistrate must resign or be rejected. If a believer seeks to become a soldier, he must be rejected, for he has despised God.

—Hippolytus of Rome[14]

Yes, as countries such as Poland would fail to return from the partitions as their Catholic faith played a large role in the citizens having hope of independence. Thus making the world a better place.

Well cool they invaded and forcefully converted the Pruzzians then, I bet they are so happy about it.

No idea what point you are trying to make.

>No idea what point you are trying to make.
In the following years, Constantine gradually consolidated his military superiority over his rivals in the crumbling Tetrarchy. In 313, he met Licinius in Milan to secure their alliance by the marriage of Licinius and Constantine's half-sister Constantia. During this meeting, the emperors agreed on the so-called Edict of Milan,[193] officially granting full tolerance to Christianity and all religions in the Empire.[194] The document had special benefits for Christians, legalizing their religion and granting them restoration for all property seized during Diocletian's persecution. It repudiates past methods of religious coercion and used only general terms to refer to the divine sphere—"Divinity" and "Supreme Divinity", summa divinitas.[195]

Europe was a mistake.

This, they should just have converted the Mediterranean countries and let the rest be pagan.

ABRAHAM'D

JESUS'D

Implying they wouldn't just have their native religion helping them.

Honestly, Islam.