Are there any practicing Muslims that post here? Besides the anime trinity shitposter

southeast asian muslim here, ama

Muslim from Morocco hi

What country specificity?

I believe there are a few, but none of them are bad except that one fucker that constantly posts anime and badly interpreted Biblical scripture

do you like spicy spaghetti

That guy is a faggot and I hate him with a passion

Why don't Muslims pray mentally? Am I mentally retarded for asking this?

malaysia

I hate all women, and love nothing more than murdering random people. So yes.

Are you sure you're not just an American?

posting from Kuwait currently.

We pray mentaly also

Duduk dekat mana?

Aku orang Terengganu

Fuck out to /int/ with this monkey babble

Ffs, I only made two post. TWO POST. And you go apeshit over this? Fine, Veeky Forums got no chill.

>agnostic
Okay but do you believe in a god?
Theism/atheism is a yes/no propositin. A/gnosticsm is a different question.

.....
Please, I never intend to make enemy. I only want to show you what your master really did say.

Can't you see? That your master said the COMPLETELY OPPOSITE with your Church teachings?

I respect the man, which is exactly why I want to spread his words.

>misinterpret
What do you mean? Don't you know, that God is not the author of confusion? (1 Corinthians 14:33K)

Don't you know that Jesus words are not his own, but the Father in heaven(John 14:24)?

From this we can conclude that Jesus MEANT what is he saying. NOT AMBIGUOUSLY. Not what he said meant something else.

What makes you think that I misinterpret the Bible? I literally copypaste Jesus words.

What makes you think that YOU DON'T MISINTERPRET THE BIBLE?

>anime
Is it because I post anime stuff? Is that why you hate me?

>copypaste
...You want me to re-write stuff all the time? Too much works.

Where did I misinterpret it? Where did I take things out of context? Am I misquoting a verse?

TELL ME, refute me. I'm happy to accept any civilized argument.

PLEASE, take my argument into consideration. Please refute me.

Are you Jesus's sheeps? Cause Jesus's sheep listen to his voice.

Let's be friends. Ok?

Oh, is there anything you don't agree with my past arguments? Be a man and day it to my face, please.

I'm happy to give (You)s.

*say it

Visited Palestine for a bit in December. What would you say to the statement, "A good Muslim is a bad Muslim?"

PS, incase you know, why don't Arabs care about the environment?

>agnostic from a Muslim background
PhD in Islamic history here and I can safely say that there is no such thing.

Either you and your family have converted to some religion (sect of Muhammad is hardly a religion), you're fleeing from your immident family (milking some Western country maybe) or you've lost your head.

I'm kind of an agnostic too I guess, from a Muslim family. I believe in God but I don't believe in any religion at the particular moment. I'd too like to study Islamic history and theology. What do you suggest?

Except none of us are converts, we regularly visit with family abroad, and I'm quite sane and functional. And though we live in the West, we do so in the middle of a large expatriate community surrounded by several mosques and Islamic organizations that we regularly attend and for which I still volunteer occasionally. It's not such an uncommon thing. A supposed PhD in Islamic history doesn't qualify you to make that kind of statement.

>agnostic
Which part of Islam do you anons find hard to accept? Maybe I can help?

If you can't yet read Arabic, I suggest Arberry's translation of the Quran, then pick up some recent historians like Jonathan Brown and Fred Donner for an intro to modern study of early Islam. The trick is to separate Islam's history from its theology to understand how they intersected and influenced each other, rather than take the theological view of Islam's history at face value.

For me, the existence of God Himself as an active, divine agent. It's not the kind of thing anyone can help with, mostly because I don't strongly care one way or the other if He does exist. I could see myself as a deist before either a staunch atheist or theist - let alone specifically Muslim.

I tend to disagree with quite a lot of miniscule things. There's the view on homosexuality, there's polygamy, but that's just prevalent in all religions, nothing to do with Islam. And I really don't pray five times a day, so really can't call myself Muslim either.
Thanks for the rec.

Oh, I really need to make an atheist thread soon.

Anyway, please ctrl+f "islam (1/2)" "islam (2/2)" in

Also, read this website for more Quran Miracle:
miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

REMEMBER, Prophet Muhammad was an unlettered man in an unlettered community. Yet somehow he managed to accurately describes science phenomenon that was only recently discovered.

Can an unlettered man know all of this? NEVER. Only God can made this possible by telling him all of these.

Anyway, just read the link and decide for yourself whether the Quran is the work of a man or the work of God.

I appreciate your concern and all, but I've been knee deep in Islamic apologetics for decades. They're as silly to me as any Baptist chain letter I've come across. It's more complicated than the choice between whether the Quran and Islam itself is the work of Man or God.

You're cool in my book, for what it's worth

>polygamy
At 2010 in America, there's about 5.2 million surplus women. If all of the male American got married, then there are still 5.2 million women who won't get married.

And we all know it is impossible. 90% of jail population are males. Many people in New York are gays.

What're going to do with that +5.2 million unmarried women? The only answer is polygamy.

70% of men cheat on their wives, which is a very unhealthy practice. And polygamy can help to reduce the percentage.

>FOR THE WOMEN
To provide protection for women, help widows to raise her kids(orphans), to prevent women from loosely having multiple sex with different patners(huge STDs risk), from literally going to the dogs, from engaging homosexuality.

>homosexuality
Read pic related

>"Normal community can also contract STDs"
Yes, but the percentage of infected in homosexual community is way way way higher than the normal community.

>so?
You want them to get hurt? No.

STDs can also spread to normal society as well. In other ways than sex. Like sharing saliva in drinks for example.

>freedom?
It's also freedom for the white man to shoot kids at school.

Yes, I'm aware that there's argument against the scientific and historical facts of the Quran.

BUT, there's also rebuttal against such arguments. The links usually have the rebuttal.

islamawareness.net
answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

Remember, Prophet Muhammad was unlearned man. The Arabs at that time were worst than animals. But, in the midst of all that, somehow an unlearned man (He is yet the author of a book) manage to produce a book of law, stories of the past and future and accurately describe scientific phenomena that only being RECENTLY discovered. And the was revealed 1400 years ago.

Look man, read the link in if you have free time. If there's an argument against scientific miracles of the Quran. Just google "rebuttal against such argument".

Believe in the heart of the cards.

*the Quran was revealed

Polygamy might have been a good solution in the past, but women have become more independent recently. I don't have much against it, but most men aren't fit for polygamous relationships like the Prophet was imo.
I think all this wouldn't have happened if so much issue hadn't been made out of one's sexual orientation, and if they were treated as normal as the heterosexuals from the first place.

Thank you for posting a bunch of facts about this though. I'm not from the US but looks like it's pretty crazy there.

>past
5.2 million are independent? Without any problem? Highly unlikely.

>homosexuality orientation
"Being born gay" is NOT supported by science.

Also, the statistics doesn't lie. Homosexual has caused MANY to suffer from STDs. STDs is not a common cold, but life-threatening disease.

Do you wanna allow STDs to spread? Of course no.

Thanks user. You're the MVP.

>Yes, I'm aware that there's argument against the scientific and historical facts of the Quran.

I'm not talking about similarly silly polemics either, but how our ancestors were not cavemen that such insights into the natural world were completely unknown until either the Quran or modern science. The whole debate is rather insulting pseudoscience and pseudohistory on both sides, which is why I washed my hands of it years ago when I began to seriously study history.

Example:
>The embryology in the Quran plagiarize Hippocrates works?

Here:
islampapers.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/does-the-quran-plagiarise-ancient-greek-embryology.pdf

In the conclusion, it says that the Quran is completely different from Hippocrates works. Thus not the Quran doesn't plagiarize.

>not completely unknown
But there's also phenomenon that are totally unknown before the Quran was revealed.

*thus the

How is that a response? I didn't say anything about plagiarism.

Is trumps idea to ban entry to and posibly deport people from certain areas of the world but not all the places needed retarded?

kek I feel like stupid taking an argument from an user who posts anime pictures but that's a good point.
Thanks user.

There's also the turkposter(s), I always assumed he's (/they were) muslim.

Guess that's me. What up.

>keeps the fuse lit
What is gonna be your trigger?

>keeps the fuse lit
???

Once you strip out the vague poetry, very few of the "scientific miracles" actually hold up to scrutiny. The thing about mountains for example is only superficially true, in that mountains do extend into the earth rather than just jutting out directly from the surface. Mountain roots don't "peg" the mountain into the surrounding environment any more than the part of a glacier that goes underwater "peg"s it to the sea.

And anyway, the fact that mountains extend into the earth would be known to anyone who had to dig into one, and might be the sort of thing someone traveling in wealthy merchant circles would hear about.

>not cavemen that such insights into the natural world were completely unknown until either the Quran or modern science.
From what I understand from your statement, you're saying that Prophet Muhammad plagiarized from past people works? Anyway, sorry if I misunderstood, the "embryology plagiarism" is just an example of the Quran "plagiarizing" past people works, which is NOT the case.

See? Not all /a/ are completely useless piece of trash. Thanks user, you're the MVP.

From Malaysia

>From what I understand from your statement, you're saying that Prophet Muhammad plagiarized from past people works?

No. I'm saying the whole 'scientific miracle' argument is predicated on the assumption that people of the Near East, one of the oldest places in the world, were a bunch of stone age savages who couldn't possibly be smarter than we give them credit for. It's the same kind of thought that makes people think Ancient Egyptians had to have Ancient Alien help in building the Great Pyramids of Giza, because obviously they were too dumb to ever do it themselves.

The natural observations in the Quran should not be taken as some kind of miracle predicting knowledge that would be made clear to us today (which is highly convenient for those making these claims today). It cheapens both the Quran and Middle Eastern history as a whole, let alone the very concept of an All Powerful God who is apparently not above the kind of human autism that makes us naturally search for patterns and connections no matter whether we're scouring the Old Testament for signs of Jesus that were never there, the Quran for science that would only be relevant in a specific century of human history and otherwise ignored and worthless to the millions of Muslims that died earlier and would die from now on, and everything Kojima says and does looking for some master ruse in store for Metal Gear.

I understand that for many this is the height of faith, but it's this exact sort of Lèse-majesté that made me stop caring in the first place.

keep the cristfags ass blasted my friend

Fucking munafik. Just go full atheist and fuck off. You are the boil that festers in a muslim community

Malay muslim here represent.

>assumption
No, it's not. The Arabs in pre-Islamic period is worse than animals, drunkard, married their stepmothers and buried their daughter alive. In the whole Arabia, only a little more than a dozen can read or write. Basically a savage people, who only focus on literature, NOT science.

There are times when the knowledge is lost from civilization, dark ages for examples. IE the age where people don't know past knowledge. Same for the Pre-Islam Arabs.

Here, there are some non-Muslim historians quote regarding the Pre-Islam period:
al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-ashgar-razwy/arabia-islam

>natural observation
What do you mean? Not all are observation. I live near the sea and never knew that salt and fresh water CANNOT mixed. The semen production(NOT SPERM) is in the seminal vehicles, not from the balls. The semen is "gushing fluid" mention in the Quran. Never said it was produce from the kidney. This user .

And many more examples of non-natural observation miracles. All of them are accurate.

From a savage brute community? Highly unlikely.

It's this type of mentality why I hate most of the Muslim. Fuck you in particular. Useless rubbish, keep pushing them away.

>All of them are accurate
Did you read my post? I explained why it was specifically not accurate. If the explanation had used glaciers, boats, or any other example of a less dense object "floating" in a denser medium, that would be accurate. As it stands right now, it actually looks much more like someone who had heard about people's experiences in mining, and someone in the merchant class like Muhammed would be very likely to hear something like that about the neighboring empires. It is very specifically not accurate, and evidence against divine revelation.

Never my intention to win arguments. 1/3 of the Quran told the Muslim to tell the Jews and Christians to talk to them.

Willing to die for Islam? When you don't even open your mouth?

Talk to them. Deedat videos is a good place to starts.

This is the sort of blind pseudohistory I'm talking about. We're not speaking of a uncontacted Amazonian tribe, but a people who had regular contact with the likes of Babylon, Egypt, Rome, and Persia, who spoke of vanished cities in the sand and were capable of sites like Petra. That they were somewhat brutal or disorganized politically is not the same thing as them being so cut off from civilization that simple word of mouth traditions, stories, and myths containing some kernel of scientific or moral insight couldn't enter their society. After all, Christianity did.

>There are times when the knowledge is lost from civilization, dark ages for examples. IE the age where people don't know past knowledge. Same for the Pre-Islam Arabs.

Most people in history were unaware of how much history has been lost. That didn't stop them from carrying on ancient traditions and stories that survived things like the Bronze Age collapse or Justinian's Plague. We call these times a dark age because we ourselves have so few primary sources. The people of the time however had fairly elaborate oral histories. Again, these are Near Easterners with thousands of years of history behind them and all around them. Muhammad even mentions it in the ruins his audience supposedly walked past daily in the Quran.

Which brings me to another point. If these were at all intentionally miraculous and prophetic tidbits of science, they were delivered in a way that was not revelation but recollection, as if the Arab listeners already knew these things and were just given a fresh perspective and meaning for these observations. And long after, no Arab reading the Quran ever stopped to think that they were reading some divinely guided science that they had never known before.

Equally suspicious, this kind of apologetic didn't exist until European conquest and Muslim immigration to the West, which was a culture already given to this sort of criticism of the Old Testament for prophesies.

>1/3 of the Quran told the Muslim to tell the Jews and Christians to talk to them.
That is kind of a dick move, though. Those who didn't hear have an excuse, and those who did have "no excuse" and a way worse punishment on the last day, right? So if someone finds your argument unconvincing, from your perspective you've damned them even harder than they were before. In fact, how many souls have you worsened the punishment of on this very board, for saying something not perfectly well thought out? In this very thread?

Where does this fit on there?

that's a /v/ shitposter. in case anyone wanted to know. clearly the typical image set of a kid from /v/.

t. veteran animeposter

This x100 studing histiography and comparative religion is what drove me to agnosticism

Don't know, haven't heard of or read it, seems new.

Regarding mountain, the Quran said they move like clouds. Here:

miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_26.html

No sane man would said that, agree? For me, it's accurate enough, it's not vague. It's a matter of perspective.

Also, even if it from a mining circle, how do they even know that the mountain move like clouds? From just the vibration(not sure whether the Arabia have earthquakes)?

Bullshit, I've got at least one million (You)s just from shitposting alone on not just only /v/, but on /a/ and /vp/ also. I'm at least more veteran than you.

>"bullshit!"
>proceeds to explain how he's a /v/ shitposter
go play lol or cs or some trash game with your 17 yo friends while livestreaming.

>For me, it's accurate enough, it's not vague.
And that is why the websites you're posting have things like "mountains echo, therefore the Quran predicts radio towers." For it to be a miracle, you either would need specific explanations of mechanisms or specific analogies that betray a fundamental understanding. With vagueries you can make anything be about anything, like the people who read the bible close enough that they said it predicted Barrack Obama being the antichrist.

"Going past like clouds" is not a specific explanation, unless "going past" is some specific untranslatable Arabic word. And regardless, the mountain itself is plenty solid, it is the fact that it is floating in a less dense medium that is the point.

What do you mean I damned them than ever before? I tried to use the most efficient way to talk to them. I'm doing the best I can, according to my capacity.

Even the Arabs wants to kill Prophet Muhammad for delivering his message. Did he damned them? Did Abraham damned his own father for delivering the message? No, of course not. They just delivering the message, with wisdom. As should all the Muslim do, according to their capacity.

>those who didn't hear have an excuse
Aren't Islam told us to study and understand the Quran? I believe that recitation gave you rewards. But what about the message? The Quran told us to talk to them. Talk to them.

Who watched people plays game?

How about "haman" in my post in ? Just ctrl f haman in that thread.

>What do you mean I damned them than ever before?
Those who have never heard are judged more harshly (with less mercy) than those who have heard and did not believe, who are specifically "without excuse." Essentially, by you speaking about Islam, at all, and exposing people to it, you are either converting them or are ensuring their punishment will be even worse on The Last Day.

>The Quran told us to talk to them. Talk to them.
And talking to people damns them unless you are immediately perfectly convincing.

So you just want to keep quiet about it? The Prophet told us to spread his words, even one word.

We got to do it with wisdom. But it's impossible to satisfy all people. Proof? Even Abraham, the Vanguard of Islam, can't even satisfy his own father? Can we do better job than him? Never in a million years.

We got to spread the Prophet message, even one words. Talk about hygiene, ablution, or something that you know about Islam. Talk man, talk.

a) Not a scientific miracle.
b) Half the supposed miracle comes from the idea already debunked by where Arabia was somehow completely isolated from every other civilization and never had any contact with them or any cultural exchange. A name like that could quite easily be passed down in folklore, not requiring any literary tradition, and that is even ignoring the fact that as a wealthy merchant Muhammed would be in a prime position to make contact with neighboring civilizations for the purpose of trade, regardless of his personal level of literacy.
c) The Haman mentioned in your link was apparently alive in the New Kingdom, which is nowhere near the time of the pyramids. You would also need to prove specifically which NK Pharaoh was the pharaoh of Exodus, show evidence of the baked brick tower structure, etc. Just saying that at one point in Egypt's thousands of years of history, one quarry foreman was named Haman is not actually evidence.

Actually, it seems like I may have mistook you for someone else who was claiming the Exodus occurred during the time of the pyramids. Disregard that part. But the Haman in the Quran is instructed to build a baked mudbrick structure, whereas the archeological Haman was the head of a quarry, which are very different things.

I'll be back. I'm tired. Sorry anons.

Regarding haman, here's some rebuttal against the argument:
islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/haman.html
islamawareness.net/FAQ/haman.html

Again, sorry. I'm spent.

But drunkeness, incest, and horrific killing of women are all things that happen in Saudi Arabia today, my goat-fucking friend.

What is the oldest known Koran? What evidence exists that it was actually written during or immediately after Mohammed's lifetime?

>IS MUHAMMAD THE AUTHOR?(1/4)

(1)Prophet Muhammad is unlearned man in an unlearned community

(2)He is yet an author of book, but somehow he managed to produced a book of law, poems, science, history all in one?

(3)ONLY a dozen people in whole Arabia are learned at that time

(4)Only 3 trade trips were accredited to him

(5)The Bible is authored by 40 people. Paul, the most learned Christians, only made no more than 28% of the NT(not including OT). The Quran, if Muhammad really did make it, the illiterate he is, IS A ONE MAN JOB.

>IS MUHAMMAD THE AUTHOR?(2/4)

(6)He is not a poet, but somehow he managed to produce the most important work (in terms of literary merits) in the whole of Arabic literature?

(7)Ancient works are not free from error. The Prophet somehow managed(if he really did have access to ancient works) to know which is true and which is wrong? Not only that,

(8)He somehow managed to make a book with OVERWHELMING scientific verse? Some are completely unknown to past people? Here:

answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm

>IS MUHAMMAD THE AUTHOR?(3/4)

(9)The Prophet only recite the Quran but never wrote it down, agree? Yet he somehow managed to keep track of the numerical facts about the Quran? Somehow managed to mention "angels and demon", "paradise and hell", MANY MORE, repeated same number of times, "Day" was mentioned 365 times, "land to sea" 13:32 times, same ratio as land to sea on earth? And MANY MORE. He somehow managed to keep track of all of this?

miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_17.html
miraclesofthequran.com/mathematical_01.html

>IS MUHAMMAD THE AUTHOR?(4/4)

(10)He is illiterate

Also see ilmfeed.com/10-reasons-muhammad-ﷺ-could-not-have-authored-the-quran/

Anons look, just put the apologetic things aside for now, read the links and decide for yourself whether or not Muhammad is the author of the Quran.

Just read man

Yup, that's it. I'm tired as all hell. I may or may not be back. But I will take (You)s into consideration, if there's any that is.

>(1)Prophet Muhammad is unlearned man in an unlearned community
Repeating this over and over does not make it a compelling argument. Pre-Islamic Arabia is propagandized as complete Jahiliyyah,but looking at it from an outside perspective they almost certainly would have had contact with outside civilizations. It's a founding myth with dubious accuracy, not unlike the Exodus account for the establishment of Israel while according to archaeology the reality was much different. Of course, Islam is notoriously iconoclastic, so a lot of good evidence was destroyed, but what we can reconstruct doesn't really support this propagandist view.

>(2)He is yet an author of book, but somehow he managed to produced a book of law, poems, science, history all in one?
Yes, given the sources he would have had access to as a baseline. The Torah and New Testament were already in existence, and actually reading the Quran much of it involves either a whitewashed/edited retread of this or warnings against the fire.

>(3)ONLY a dozen people in whole Arabia are learned at that time
Even if this were true, oral tradition was incredibly important back in the day and a much more standard way of recording and transmitting information.

>(4)Only 3 trade trips were accredited to him
Even if this were true, he doesn't actually have had to travel overland to be exposed to ideas, he just needs to have contact with others who did, or contact with people who had contact, etc. Think the Silk Road,

where merchants mostly traveled back and forth around one central location rather than traversing the entire length themselves, yet there was exchange of goods, ideas, disease etc.

>(5)The Bible is authored by 40 people. Paul, the most learned Christians, only made no more than 28% of the NT(not including OT). The Quran, if Muhammad really did make it, the illiterate he is, IS A ONE MAN JOB.
Again, illiteracy is not actually an obstacle here. Whoever the original Homer was, if they existed, would have also likely been illiterate. The Oral Torah was oral. And the Quran is shorter and has significant basis in other texts.

>(6)He is not a poet, but somehow he managed to produce the most important work (in terms of literary merits) in the whole of Arabic literature?
If he wrote poetry, he is by definition a poet. This is a bit like saying Beethoven wasn't a composer despite producing compositions of high merit. If you're saying he had no formal education in poetry, that's a separate conversation. I would also guess that priming has something to do with this too. If you are brought up to believe that the Quran is a poetic miracle, you are primed to judge it as so regardless of its actual quality.

>7)Ancient works are not free from error. The Prophet somehow managed(if he really did have access to ancient works) to know which is true and which is wrong?
He didn't. For example, he continued to tell the story of Solomon and the Exodus despite the lack of archeological

evidence for Solomon's kingdom or the Hebrew captivity/journey across the Sinai.

>(9)The Prophet only recite the Quran but never wrote it down, agree? Yet he somehow managed to keep track of the numerical facts about the Quran? Somehow managed to mention "angels and demon", "paradise and hell", MANY MORE, repeated same number of times, "Day" was mentioned 365 times, "land to sea" 13:32 times, same ratio as land to sea on earth? And MANY MORE. He somehow managed to keep track of all of this?
No, people primed to assume there are miracles in the Quran go looking for them and are able to construct them. It's not unlike looking for "prophecies" in The Bible Code by manipulating the data or a student ginning up meaning in a poem to complete a close-reading essay the night before it is due. The sources you are using present examples such as "it describes mountains echoing, therefore the Quran predicted radio towers" as miracles. If you go looking that deep for meaning, you'll find it anywhere you look.

>(10)He is illiterate
Again, not actually relevant, oral tradition was important.