Why did Ireland fail so horribly

you cant expect paddy people to succeed at anything

>You could say the same thing about Italy pre 1800s.

what?

Because they chose Babylonian popery over actual Christianity

Italy never existed as a state. It was in constant turmoil for centuries, divided and constantly warring.

Have you even read any history?

Popery is poison.

In comparison to?

Monarchy worship

Both of you are right and wrong.

Ireland didn't have the immediate proximity to places like middle france/germany/italy that gave so many places the boost in what is being called "development" here.

Vkikings were and weren't an issue; they were a thorn in the side, certainly, but as Tara, Clontarf and several other examples show, the Irish were absolutely superior fighters. Not that it would take much against the snowfags.

Ireland's biggest downfall was also it's greatest defence; being absolutely fucking irrelevant in almost every conceivable way.

Extra clay for the anglos was all they were to most foreign powers, which saved them from a lot of strife but prevented them from progress in many ways too.

>It's another Brit (or that one Russian from /pol/) does an anti-irish bait thread

Isolation from the rest of Europe meant there was very little in the way of exhange of ideas. No invaders managed to unite the country under their rule like what happened in Britain, so there was constant warfare.
After being conquered by their larger neighbour, any opportunity for advancement was swiftly put down. Eventually this occupation exacerbated a crop failure into an full blown famine, and then proceeded to block any help from the outside.

Eventually however, Ireland gained its freedom (mostly) and became a rich and productive member of Europe.

Homeless die on the streets of Ireland every winter lad. It would've been even worse back then

Everything.

At the top of the poison list is popery. Nothing else will ruin a man or a country worse than popery.

>"popery"
Your bowler hat is showing

I'm sure they'd have been just fine were they further off from Great Britain

t. Johnny Adair

what's with the david star?

...

The Catholic church.

The church was extremely interested in making sure that Ireland never unified so as secular Irish lords couldn't threaten church authority. They also let the Anglo-Normans invade to begin with.

The history of Catholicism in Ireland is all you need to know to confirm that the Vatican is the whore of Babylon.

>it's another mouth breather who overstates the power of the Vatican

It's very hard to overstate the power of Rome during the middle-ages.

And yet the power of the king and then later that of the nobility were never higher than those periods.

Are Protestants blissfully ignorant of history or is it a tradition of anti-intellectualism?

>tfw no anarcho-monarchist high-kingdom of Ireland where the Irish language and Insular Christianity are alive and well.
END THE PAIN

>implying this wouldn't collapse immediately to foreign powers or one Irish lord with an army

Except in Ireland the church were infinitely more powerful than the nobility. As evidenced by the fact that they got wiped out by the Normans as soon as the pope told them they could.

Not to mention the power of the nobility was entirely dependent on church support.

>Are Protestants blissfully ignorant of history or is it a tradition of anti-intellectualism?
I'm not a protestant.

Why do Catholics always automatically assume that any critics of the church must be protestants?

It's extremely hard to understate the power of Rome in Ireland in the Middle Ages. It took them hundreds of years to get their monks to get their hair right, and they fucking never figured out how Bishops are supposed to work.

That's why we need Jesus and community militias to save us from Industrial capitalism and its vile ways.

>r one Irish lord with an army
Lad, they tried that for thousands of years and got no where.

>one Irish lord with an army
Fortunately, Ireland never has to worry about that, because we always have about 220 Irish Lords with armies.

> As evidenced by the fact that they got wiped out by the Normans as soon as the pope told them they could.
You mean over the course of a 500 year period, yes. And that seems to be more an indication of the power of Normans and the English state, than of the Church in Ireland.

>Not to mention the power of the nobility was entirely dependent on church support.
Top fucking kek.

The Normans arrived at the behest of Diarmait Mac Murchada to regain his kingdom, who in turn had the support of Henry II of England, who in turn had the support of Pope Adrian IV. It wasn't demanded by the Pope, nor instigated by him but instead by an Irish noble.

>Why do Catholics always automatically assume that any critics of the church must be protestants?

People who use the terms "Popery" or "whore of babylon" are typically bible bashing Americans. Seeing that you're a just another cliche on Veeky Forums I didn't assume otherwise.

Also I am not a Catholic.

>And that seems to be more an indication of the power of Normans and the English state,
Yet they needed Rome's backing to do it.

Don't act like you don't know the Norman conquest was an Anglo-Catholic conspiracy long in the making.

>Top fucking kek.
But it totally was though.

As witnessed right here nobles without church support got gangbanged by the ones with it.

>implying Jesus has ever mattered in politics

Foreign intervention it is then!

>Yet they needed Rome's backing to do it.
Really? Why is that? Did the Vikings and Hiberno-Norse need Rome's backing too? What about Cromwell's armies? You've got a bit of a problem here that you need to maintain the Irish Nobleman are the most powerful warlords in Europe (they're not) except for Irish Priests.

I think the fact that the Irish forgot how to use the bow, used overhead rather than couched lances and considered 1,000 troops a MASSIVE army played a big part in the Normans steamrolling Ireland, like they steamrolled a greater part of Europe.

>As witnessed right here nobles without church support got gangbanged by the ones with it.
Right here? Where the fuck are you, and what the fuck does it have to do with Ireland?

Hey, while you're painting your picture of the all powerful Rome can you explain:
1) The inability to displace the oral legal and scholarly class despite the advantage of being fucking literate.
2) The Inability of the Church itself to wield enough influence to subordinate Abbots to Bishops in the middle ages
3) The inability of the church to put an end to polyamory.

All of these are really without comparison in the rest of Europe.

>Foreign Intervention
What, you think Ireland relies on the government army to keep that away?

>Did the Vikings and Hiberno-Norse need Rome's backing too?
No, and notice that they lost hard to the Irish noblemen that did have Rome's backing.
>What about Cromwell's armies?
I think you'll find that Cromwell wasn't part of the middle-ages, lad.

>Right here? Where the fuck are you, and what the fuck does it have to do with Ireland?
Ireland, obviously.

>Hey, while you're painting your picture of the all powerful Rome can you explain:
But they did do all of that though. With their massive Anglo-Norman army.

>implying Jesus has ever mattered in politics

>Implying that isn't precisely why we need Jesus in politics.

>No, and notice that they lost hard to the Irish noblemen that did have Rome's backing.
No, they didn't. In b4 Brian Boru meming

>I think you'll find that Cromwell wasn't part of the middle-ages, lad.
Lad, you're arguing that the Tudors and Stuarts are in the middle ages, so I think it's a bit late for that. Is it difficult to overestimate the power of the Church in the Middle Ages or not? Surely, if they had the churches backing, even a severely antiquated army would be sufficient to crush and conquer England wouldn't it. 500 men with Javelins or so.

>Ireland, obviously.
t. Ulsterman

>But they did do all of that though. With their massive Anglo-Norman army.
Sorry lad, you're tripping over yourself. You yourself sad that the Anglo-Norman army was powerless against the Irish Lords, who in turn were powerless against the Church. So the church already fully controlled Ireland. So why invite the Normans to reform the Church in Ireland?

And again, you seem to be lumping even the Stuarts into the "Norman Invasion"

>No, they didn't. In b4 Brian Boru meming
But that's exactly what happened.
Norse lords got rekt by Irish lords and all that remained after the fact was a few irrelevant nobles that later assimilated anyway.

>Lad, you're arguing that the Tudors and Stuarts are in the middle ages
What?
>You yourself sad that the Anglo-Norman army was powerless against the Irish Lords
What?
>And again, you seem to be lumping even the Stuarts into the "Norman Invasion"
What?

Are you hallucinating posts? Because I never said any of that.

undeniably had far more political/cultural clout tho, very different

It's 6 points to represent the 6 counties in Northern Ireland.

oh!

well, that's actually logical

Your awful summary of Irish history jumps from 1014 to the mid 1800s.

they could make claims to high culture though. even after the renaissance italy produced talented artists, even if they served outside of italy.

A United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland?

in an absolut world

Since this appears to be an Irish history thread. Question:

When and why did the Irish stop speaking Gaelic and start seriously adopting English?

The 19th century was when the Eternal Anglo really kicked his efforts at eradicating Gaelic into gear.

Persecution against Irish speakers began with Cromwell forcing irish speakers to move to the west of the country; it went on for ages and included banning irish schools, refusing to hire native irish speakers, etc.
There's more but i'm not fully versed on it

Why did Cromwell do that?

I know all about his feelings on the Catholic church but what's his gripe with Gaelic? Is it just pure anti-Irish autism?

and you know what, the world really doesn't miss it

If you're a normie. When you get to actually reading primary sources, people didn't give two shits about the Pope.

Oh thats right sorry

Cromwell's entire life can be summed up with the word "autism"

>Ireland didn't have the immediate proximity to places like middle france/germany/italy that gave so many places the boost in what is being called "development" here.

okay but they were the only western territory that maintained literacy after the western roman empire fell. why didnt they, you know, go forward from there? especially with the germanic kingdoms still being carved out and butting heads on mainland europe.

>no development left behind to work on/exploit/draw from/steal
>False

Only using a tiny part of the quote is intellectually dishonest. It's clear that the user was arguing Roman structure helped recovery, not the out of context snupper that implies that the Irish had no past to draw from.

As much of a dick move as it was, the phrase used to describe it is pretty boss.

"To hell or to Connacht."
(Connacht being the most westernly province)

With such a terrible OP I was expecting this thread to be naff but it's actually quite good

Loyalists love to LARP about how they are a lost tribe of Israel.

For reels.

WE

he's dedicated you got to give him that

That's Turkey

Why do you kikes keep making threads criticising Ireland? You got an agenda?

this. Worst neighbour ever.

Homeless will die everywhere it's cold. Fucking elderly people in slightly unmaintained homes die when it gets colds in the western world

What's your point?

Because the only people that kept the literacy were a small group of monks who were devoted entirely to themselves and God, not the local populace. The people didn't see the need to learn to read and write, because everybody had to focus on surviving and likely had their own jobs.

You're making Ireland out like it's an exception in it's shitiness, whereas it's one of the highest HDIs in the world.

I'm Irish myself and love this country with all my heart. The fact remains that the homeless die every winter, and I was using that to show that it was completely plausible that you could easily catch hypothermia in pre-1800's Ireland

NEVER CONQUERED

why is there orange in irelands flag?