Why has Islam historically been such a garbage religion

but....but >muh islamic golden age

Islam is like Terminator 3, the unneeded sequel,

Because it's built around never being able to reform. Any attempts are punishable by death. Lots of people have tried and died.

Why not just attack the race and skip all the posturing?

>garbage religion
relative to what exactly

it could easily be argued that all religions are garbage

That would be T2 and Christianity desu.

Christianity has always reformed...it went through periods like the Rennaissance, Reformation, Enlightenment which fundmanetally changed the religion.................................... Islam might of had the so called "golden age" but then dipped right back into fundamentalism

>it's built around never being able to reform
reform what exactly, there's legal precedent but no central leadership like the pope to dictate islamic law so there are literally thousands of different sects with widely divergent interpretations of the Koran.

>reformation is inherently good and is the opposite of fundamentalism
This is quite simply wrong. There was a tremendous amount of fundamentalism in christianity during the reformation, Martin Luther himself threw out whole sections of the new testament. During the canonization in the 4th century the roman catholic church intentionally destroyed as many gnostic gospels as they could find. The Eastern Orthodox church during the period of iconoclasm destroyed irreplaceable art and iconography. In England during the dissolution of the monasteries the same was done. How many hundreds of thousands, or millions were murdered during the wars of religion in Europe in the name of Christianity? That is of course why the council of Trent failed to reunify the church, far too much blood had already been spilled.

Look at how many muslims say that ISIS are intentionally misinterpreting Islamic law and are heretics, that in itself is a reform of islam, they're fundamentally changing the religion. Reform isn't inherently good or bad.

the Enlightenment fundamentally made Europe a secular place...

Islam has not done that, Islam never had an Enlightenment

what does that have to do with anything, the enlightenment is a period of western philosophy not christian theology

You are the first peraon i have ever seen bash t2 and you have made me seething mad.

Its the word of God, what is there to reform?

the Enlightenment led to the secularization of Europe that was culminating at the time of French Revolution

I don't know

maybe not killing apostates for leaving the religion

beating women with stones and whips

throwing gays off of building rooftops or hanging them


you know, civilized humanity stuff

ok, and?

all that stuff is in the bible as well

Listen here, my doctor is Muslim and he is a stand up guy. Real straight shooter, never harmed a man in his life. If he seen a couple of gay men walking together hands clapsed i doubt my man, my doctor want to murder them gaymen
Real nice guy. What dou have to say to that?

>there's legal precedent but no central leadership like the pope to dictate islamic law so there are literally thousands of different sects with widely divergent interpretations of the Koran.

Yeah, and every single one of those sects consider what the other sects are doing "bid'ah" e.g heresy.

Not trying to troll or anything, but even though Islam has divergent interpretations, it's a vastly more conservative religion than the other Abrahamic ones.

>it's a vastly more conservative religion than the other Abrahamic ones
they are hardly as unique as you think, there are fundamentalists in all abrahamic religions

>Islam never had an Enlightenment
>what is Jadidism

Europe was also better before Enlightememe.

Literally nothing wrong with any of these

Its god is satan.
Its prophet is a schizophrenic murderous pedophile.
Its message is a lie.
Its spread is due to violent conversions.

Haredi Judaism is the only true Judaism desu

Of course there are, but I would argue that Islam is quicker to violence, because it has a much clearer view of who the enemy is(e.g Dar-Al-Islam vs Dar-Al-Harb).

ok then argue it

>figure of speech

Ash'arism and Wahhabism

Don't compare the violence of the bible vs. the violence of the quran

there are differences

first off all christians don't view the bible as the literal word of god like Muslims view the Quran....christians view the bible as inspiration

the violence in the bible is in the old testament which christians don't follow

the quran has violence throughout the whole book


this fall equivalence of Christianity and Islam has to stop

That he's a neutered """man""".
Fags belong in a bog.

>bible as the literal word of god
Sola Scriptura. Or are Protestants suddenly not Christian?
Why are all the prophets in the Bible, Jesus being the exception, charged with committing heresies? Aaron and the calf, the sins of Daniel, the idolatry of Solomon. The Quran corrects this vile account.
>the quran has violence throughout the whole book
[5:32] Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.
>the violence in the bible is in the old testament which christians don't follow
That is untrue; many Christian have and continue to quote the Old Testament to justify acts of violence; one example being George Bush's alluding to Exodus 23:7 and Isiah 2:10-11 in justifying military action after 9/11. That is even without mentioning the violence in (and the use of) the New Testament Revelation, which far surpasses anything in the Old Testament.

Pr*testants are indeed not Christian.

Yes, and thanks to REFORM christians don't do that stuff. The exact same thing has to happen to Islam.

Your doctor is a good person in spite of his religion, not because of it. If he interpreted the quran literally, or in the way that the majority of the muslim world does, he would start tossing fruits off balconies asap.

wtf I love islam now

Have you read the Quran, the Hadiths, the Sunnah?
If anything, de facto historical Islam is fine compared to what could have been.

No catholics are.

>[5:32] Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

Taqiyya much? Key words there are THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, this isn't a commandment to the muslims, it's a admonition against the Jews.
It's saying "God gave the Jew's this commandment, and they (specifically Cain) failed to live up to it." It's not a rule directed at muslims in any sense, and the following verses make that pretty clear. Especially given the vague definition of "Mischief" which has been used for centuries to execute non muslims for the slimmest of reasoning.

32. Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!.

33. The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.

>As long as there is this book, there will be no peace in the world
t. the Eternal Anglo

>If he interpreted the quran literally

There can be no literal interpretation of the Quran because it is explicitly said in the Quran that not all of its verses should be taken literally.

>Real straight shooter
Most Muslims are.

Good one Ahmed, how's Germany by the way?

They're a bunch of losers who never aspired to be more, whereas our ancestors traveled to a new land to grow, mature and learn. We are their intelligent descendants.

"mmmhh, dat der's some grade A sophistry right der."

Go tell ISIS about how the quran says not to take it literally, or Iran or the Wahhabis. Bad things happen when people follow the qaran, whether they take it 100% literal or 90% literal.

Christian detected

I was going to write something clever, as i am a muslim and understand this whole terrorist situation kind of better than you, but after reading through the comments i relised that there is just no point. It's not gonna change anyone's mind, no one cares, and fuck it, im on Veeky Forums i dont care what you all think anyway. I just dont see the point of threads like these anymore. All that there is to say has been said in the million previous threads like this one

Why not just give cliffnotes version you liar?

>Good one Ahmed, how's Germany by the way?
He says when user was literally quoting a 19th century British prime minister.

Because you think the world is so simple. How am i going to give you cliffnotes on an incredibly complex thing and still get what i meant across the way i meant it ? And there is no point in me sitting down and wrighting an essay long comment if only a hanfull of people will read it and even less will go to trouble of actually trying to understand it instead of dismissing it right on the spot

The world is complex but not lynching gays and not condoning rape are pretty basic rules kinda baffles me how the muslim world hasn't figured out that these things are kinda abad

>christians don't view the bible as the literal word of god
then what are young earth creationists
>inb4 #notallchristians

>how's Germany by the way
better than it was when it last accepted mass refugees in 1993 by any metric?

don't make the mistake of thinking the thread is just you and the person you're arguing with, other people are always reading and you may convince them

The answer to the thing baffeling you is also quite complex, but if you want to search for an answer here's a hint. There is more to muslim world than just arabs. Start with that and see where it leads you

Wahhabis in general and ISIS in particular do not interpret the Quran literally, and neither does the Iranian clergy. I don't know what you are talking about.

Look man we're on Veeky Forums if you can link an article to prove your point I'll probably still call you a derogatory term but you might make me more tolerant of islam why not just elaborate even slightly on what you mean

>Go tell ISIS about how the quran says not to take it literally
remember when they burned that Jordanian pilot to death and people got really upset about it? A big reason for that is that the Koran specifically forbids execution by burning people to death, saying that its too close a punishment to burning in hell which is something reserved for divine judgement. They also were negotiating with the Jordanians for his release after they had already killed him, and negotiating in bad faith is also expressly forbidden.

Thank you.

>Go tell ISIS about how the quran says not to take it literally

If they took the quran literally they wouldn't kill anyone because the quran tells them not to

And this is why people hate /pol/ and the attitude it brings, this shit could've been a decent discussion

I just asked for you to elaborate on your point. Did you not read my post?

I can't link an article, i didnt just read an article and form my opinion, it literally took almost 20 years to form. And honestly how am i to slightly elaborate on hundreds of years of history and make it clear. You get nothing from me just elaborating slightly. As i said, i would have to wright an essay long coment, and i don't even know where to start. Besides, i genuenly don't care what you guys think enough to do that now, there's this new episode of walking dead on fox so i'll rather watch that now. Truth is, if i was a christan i would probably have the same opinion as you, and im not mad that you have them. It's perfectlly reasonable

That wasnt my coment

>the Koran specifically forbids execution by burning people to death

What verse from the Quran says this?

Look man I am not a christian in fact I don't actually hate muslims the ones we have in Ireland are sound and they don't stir up shit the only muslims I don't like are the north african and saudi arabian ones I use generalizations because I don't want my country to turn into swedistan 2 Now the IRA lose their terrorist monopoly boogaloo

See, you indirectly understand the very basic thing in all of this. You don't hate muslims, you hate arabs. If you want to understand that whole problem with islam these days start there. But that aside, if it means anything i for some reason like Ireland quite a lot. Would love to visit someday

All right then man you've changed my mind I don't hate all muslims just arabs, north africans and people who pretend to be refugees when they aren't for iraq or syria

Perfectly reasonable. To tell the truth all those people posing as refugees fleing from warzones while just being economic immigrants get on my nervs so much for many reasons, and they dont even come to my county. Sending them back is a reasnoble solution in my opinion

you can still be behaved and lawful evil. islamism is resilient to "class consciousness") as educated muslims are not underrepresented.

>cherrypicker

People were doing similar shit after Christian reformation too though.