Vladimir Lenin

Was he evil or did he try to do good and help the working class?

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Define evil.

>Arendt's book introduced the expression and concept "the banality of evil".[5] Her thesis is that Eichmann was not a fanatic or sociopath, but an extremely average person who relied on clichéd defenses rather than thinking for himself and was motivated by professional promotion rather than ideology. Banality, in this sense, is not that Eichmann's actions were ordinary, or that there is a potential Eichmann in all of us, but that his actions were motivated by a sort of stupidity which was wholly unexceptional.[6] She never denied that Eichmann was an anti-semite, nor that he was fully responsible for his actions, but argued that these characteristics were secondary to his stupidity.

Well he created a totalitarian regime which spawned a dictator responsible for millons of deaths (stalin).

>or that there is a potential Eichmann in all of us

Now this is where she was naive.

both

"Life is like a game of cards. The hand you are dealt is determinism; the way you play it is free will."

t. Dan Dennett

2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

>Einstein thought highly of Lenin, saying: "I honor Lenin as a man who completely sacrificed himself and devoted all his energy to the realization of social justice. I do not consider his methods practical, but one thing is certain: men of his type are the guardians and restorers of humanity."

He abolished the horror of Tsarist rule and laid the foundations of making Russia a more fair and liveable country

Depends

USSR can't be considered totalitarian until 1929

Well Lenin actually believed what he was doing was right and he even lived in modest socialist conditions until he had his strokes

Uh, 66 million people were murdered in Russia from 1918 to 1957...

He rounded up 15 million peasants and sent them to die on the tundra.

The foundation he laid lead to more horror than has ever been seen in written human history.

>He rounded up 15 million peasants and sent them to die on the tundra.
that would be horrible... if it were true.

He was a jew

Sadly you are right, that was his successor.

He just starved several million and went on a campaign of mass killing and torture while laying the foundation for his successor to do far worse.

Lenin didn't want Stalin to be his successor though. So a lot of soviet deaths can't be accounted to him.

There is no such thing as evil or good, only protagonists and antagonists. Everyone is good in their own mind.

That's totally untrue

Even if you attribute to Stalin and Lenin every single death by famine, it caps out at 12-16 million

im not good

>ayo hol up, lemme build this bomb, then regret it

Lenin laid the foundation of summary executions, mass imprisonment, and terror.

Purging the land of harmful insects was his justification.

I have no faith that his chosen successor would have done much better than Stalin.

The low guess is 20 million, the high 60.

How did you come to 12-16?

>He abolished the horror of Tsarist rule

And made something worse, which you would think impossible.

well the worse part can mostly be accounted to stalin. After stalin the USSR was a decent place to live.

>After stalin the USSR was a decent place to live.

You have to be trolling.

Full employment, decent standard of living, quality education, no wars until 1979.

And all without exploiting the resources of the third world or demanding unsustainable and infinite growth!

So yes, you are trolling, and fucking hard.

Well he is right, it might not have been the best standards of living but at least everyone had a decent living.

"Jew lauds another jew"

Lenin wasn't jewish though

That isn't a definition of evil, you're just stating actions which you think fit your nebulous unstated definition of evil.

You not from ex soviets states are you? Thats that i tought comfy faggot

What the fuck are you even trying to say? You're just giving one incoherent thought after another.

Terms like "good" "evil" "just" etc are fucking nebulous, it's a worthless argument unless you define them.

I was just stating what he did. Its up to you guys to say if it's considered evil or not.
In everyone's perspective the word evil can mean something totally different.
So its quite useless to define things for you.

>So its quite useless to define things for you.

In the context of a debate it isn't, unless the entire fucking point was to have everyone talking past each other because nobody can even agree on a meaning for "evil" let alone whether Lenin falls into it.

So we can just reword OP to

>does lenin make you feel bad :(

No I'm not, I'm an ML and I think the USSR was a generally good society

If they had won the Cold War, we'd be living in a much more just and comfortable world

saged, hidden

Calm ur tits senpai...
Lets make an example.
Hitler and Stalin are by many considered the most evil guys ever.
Would you consider Lenin as bad as them? Does he even come close to guys like them?

he make you feel bad?

Agreed

Given how available the information is today how do you justify your statement?

Are you simply ignorant? Have you never bothered to read any of the first hand accounts of the people who lived in soviet Russia? Have you never spoken with people who escaped from there?

Here, read

englishrussia.com/2015/01/20/borist-yeltsin-in-american-supermarket/

Even in the early Stalin years the USSR was not "totalitarian". This is less because there was no want for it but for lack of means to do so. Russia is a big territory, shit ends up falling through the cracks unless you're bankrupting yourself on bureaucracy.
It's thought that the purges among non-participants and rank-and-file members were less politically motivated and more a convenient way of getting rid of unproductive employees. Stalin's having his party purge, and no one's going to investigate whether on is actually a political subversive, so you denounce them and have an easier time at work, maybe get their apartment for yourself.

He just wanted to avenge his brother.

I assure you that I have read more about Soviet Russia than you have. The USSR was not a perfect society, but was represented an important and necessary step in the path toward communism.

The Soviet Union certainly lacked the abundance of the most developed Western countries, but this is unsurprising considering how closed it was from much of the world market. More importantly, the Soviet economy was not based around unequal exchange with the third world. Outsourcing factory jobs to Vietnam or buying Congolese ore for a pittance may have withheld from Soviet people the excesses enjoyed in the West, but allowed for a comfortable lifestyle not predicated upon neo-colonialism.

In addition, state socialism as practiced in Russia offered a stability of economy and lifestyle never seen since 1991. The negation of a demand for unlimited growth prevented something as small as GDP stagnation grinding society to a halt, as it would in the West. Employment was guaranteed, healthcare was free, and high-quality education was readily available. Between 1945 and 1991,nobody went hungry. Why do you think most Russians today yearn for a return to socialism?

>I assure you that I have read more about Soviet Russia than you have.

Leftist fantasy novels do not count user. It is not a question that life was worse in the USSR than it was in the free world for the people. Your little talking points do not change history, nor do they excuse it, nor are they accurate.

Go spout your idiotic fantasies elsewhere.

His mother was.
>mfw he called Trotsky a juda and a swine but didn't know he himself had jewish blood when he wrote that
Pretty funny

I suppose he had good intentions, but he was a dumbass to unironically think that Commemeism would actually work.

also
>evil

His mother had a Jewish father but was raised Christian

COMMUNISM = SATANISM!
COMMUNISM = ABOLITION OF MONEY, WORKING FOR FREE AND ABOLITION OF ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS!

Wrong again, moron.

The was once a famous academic who sat in his office in Moscow and wrote about how bad the gulags were. Well, one day he actually visited the gulags, and he loved them so much he never returned.

i hope some day your dream will come true and you'll get to live (as a regular person) in a communist country

People starve in wars. All wars. Look at what's going on in Syria and Yemen right now.

It's not as if he was expropriating peasants for the lulz; WWI + a civil war led to a humanitarian catastrophe and Lenin did what he could to alleviate it.

He sertainly wasn't a saint. But he made the foundation for Russia to become one of the most powerful superpowers on the globe.

Russian Empire was already a superpower

Well that didn't really show in WW1

They starved in peacetime due to the insane policies of the state.

If you were a farmer you has a quota of grain to supply, if you did not meet that quota you were shot. If that quota left you with nothing and you starved, then you starved. If you tried to glean a little grain from the fields after it had been threshed to feed you starving family (In western nations it's left for the birds) you were guilty of theft and shot.

Again none of this should surprise anyone. There are thousands upon thousands of first hand accounts of people who lived in the USSR, anyone who claims it was a pretty good time is ignorant or insane.