My dumb hick friend keeps refferring to himself as a Nihilist and it's cringey and terrible

This.

It's what happens when you discover that all the assholes thinking they have some basis for meaning are full of shit. You naturally just assume that the whole project is full of shit and that there is just NO meaning.

This is analogous to people discovering that science makes most religious claims look retarded and becomming logical positivists or denying subjectivity or some other stupid reaction.

The "truth" is that meaning-claims, like origin-of-the-universe-claims, are metaphysical, and we don't have the tools to investigate them at this point.

Saying that there is No meaning is just as unjustified as saying that there is Some particular meaning. In reality we just don't know anything about the fundamental nature or origin of the universe, so we don't know if it has any meaning or not.

>Saying that there is No meaning is just as unjustified as saying that there is Some particular meaning.
Bullshit. One can be reasonably argued against, the other cannot. I agree that an absolute no-value/meaning claim is unprovable and unfalsifiable, but that doesn't make it "just as unjustified" as claims that *can* be demonstrated to be false, inconsistent or too weak to carry their implications.

Why not just go read The Ego and Its Own and find out for yourself?

Is that not what I touched on when differentiating meaning and values?
And more or less, it's just semiotic meaning that goes through semiosis again with abstract thought to form values.
But there is a distinction, so let's act like value has nothing to do with semiotics to keep things simple.
I'm talking about the semiotic meaning that the values nihilism deals with emerge from. I'm not saying that values are a product of semiosis, I'm saying values are the product of conceptualizing meaning that is brought about by semiosis.
Thats what I attempted to communicate, particularly in that last bit, maybe I didn't make myself clear, maybe you like to argue.

>don't get the breadth of semiotics
>wikiphilosophers

No, just because I don't believe in some metaphysical being who presides over all of existence doesn't mean I cannot find some other meaning for life. Don't make such generalizations.

I mean, its stupid but hes pretty much right. "Nothing matters or has meaning".

I know nothing about philosophy. When people say that nihilism is the belief that meaning exists and nothing has it (in which case, how does one know it exists?) or that reason does not exist?

that's a semantical argument. I don't think you're aware.

I agree with the spirit of your claim, but I think you're slightly misinterpreting in a mostly unimportant way.

I can construct arbitrarily many unjustified claims, each less likely than the last, by just adding more and more specifics, each of which is unlikely.
You can graduate these claims by unlikelyness, but they can all still just be in the giant circle of "unjustified" opposite the "justified" claims. And then all the claims in that circle, despite having different likelyhoods, are all equally "unjustified".

thank you to taking some time out of your day to attempt to explain fundamental reason to some of the retards wandering this website(my home).

as resident fundamental reason explain-man I am just filled with glee when I stumble upon posts like these.

Broadly speaking, nihilism refers to a negation of an idea otherwise held to be fundamental in philosophy and it's exact meaning depends on the topic or context.

Epistemological nihilism: 'knowledge' in absolute or Cartesian sense is meaningless or unobtainable.

Metaphysical nihilism: nothing exists or the idea of existence itself is meaningless.

Moral nihilism: morality, including notions of right and wrong, are meaningless. This should be distinguished with existentialism, which it often gets conflated with, which states that there is no objective morality but that the subjective values and morality are legitimate and meaningful.

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What a dumb retard you are

>all life is minded btw
HA! Tell me another one!

Any meaning you find by your own definition is a lie. It's ridiculously hypocritical to cling to naturalism and objectivism then say you're allowed to make up some bullshit about how your life has meaning. Have the courage to follow your beliefs all the way to the end, don't get halfway then decide the implications of what you preach are too scary for you

You can acknowledge that there's no inherent meaning to life, but that your life has 'meaning' in the sense that you have goals, ambitions and loved ones. It's not a meaning in the sense that it matters in the grand scheme of things, it's a kind of meaning that makes life worthwile for yourself. It's a very different meaning from the religious interpretation, and it's cool if you find the word 'meaning' unfitting for this idea.

Nihilism is a philosophy that can destroy humanity

>as resident fundamental reason explain-man I am just filled with glee when I stumble upon posts like these.
Goddammit, fucking end yourself.

Real nihilism: Life has no meaning, therefore it is necessary to create our own. In Nietzsche's case, the ubermensch.

Babby's first nihilism: life has no meaning so fuck it lol #yolo.

Except nobody would know Nietzsche said to make a purpose for yourself since all anyone focuses on is the lack of purpose, not the proposed solution he came up with.

>therefore it is necessary to create our own

Why?

Because I misinterpreted everything I've ever read about nihilism.

Because that is how human brains work. Without one we turn to self destructive or suicidal behavior. Much like the mice in Calhoun's experiments.

Early on, our purpose was finding food, fucking, and travel. Then as we advanced we found new and more complex things to drive us on.

But the human brain doesn't work well when there is nothing to drive forward to. Whether it be a job, hedonism, god, some general goal, etc. Once all our basic needs are met and that is no longer a purpose to strive for, we need other things. Without that we have no real motivation or necessity to exist and that leads to shitloads of suicidal thoughts or destructive behavior.

The same way people living in slums won't be as depressed or pop as many pills as the person in the suburbs. The suburbanites typically have all basic needs met, and little else to strive for. While a slum dweller has to struggle and has a purpose, strong familial ties, etc.

Of course there are always exceptions, but in general that will be the case and has been the case. It's like asking why people wanna fuck when the desire for reproduction is just evolutionarily ingrained in us.

Get your fucking ass back to le plebbit, you misinformed cancerous cunt.

You clearly didn't read Nietzsche. You know, the guy who fucking came up with nihilism as we know it. Go back to Spencer's, you edgy faggot.

>Because that is how human brains work. Without one we turn to self destructive or suicidal behavior.
And why is one preferable over the other?

Because for living beings propogation matters. Why? Because the ones who didn't have that trait died out. So, in all living things reproduction and survival matter and it has been selected for for billions of years now. From the smallest proto-life to the most complex life forms we know of.

but in the end it's meaningless

And in the end you drinking water or eating is meaningless because you will shit and piss it out. Meaningless or not, it is a vital component of survival. And to that end, it is not meaningless and has a clear purpose just as eating and drinking do. Even you don't believe it is without meaning because if you did you would have killed yourself a long time ago by ceasing to do such meaningless things that continue to make you exist.

>Even you don't believe it is without meaning because if you did you would have killed yourself a long time ago by ceasing to do such meaningless things that continue to make you exist.
That's a complete non sequitur. Acknowledging the lack of meaning in something doesn't logically necessitate refraining from it, especially not in this specific case where starving yourself to death would actually be less preferable on a whole different level, due to it being much more *painful* than the alternative.

This is the same insipid line of reasoning some present against secular ethics. "If you don't have divine morality, then what's stopping you from raping babies to death???". Fucking retarded.

Yes, nothing to do is a killer as bad as fear. The only possibility society has is finding something "positive" to do. It has to be meaningful (fake approval by parents towards their children has been shown to be negative; meaningful can't be fake or faked). Our minds may be able to believe a lie, but our feelings--or our future feelings--cannot. Our bodies will use substitute chemicials to survive, but not thrive.

A study reference to your claims on drug use is needed, however.

Your comment was the non sequitur. Because whether it has meaning or not changes nothing. What matters is that we need such purpose for survival. And, as you mentioned, it is less painful than the alternative.

And if something serves a function, it is no longer meaningless anyway.

And my point about dying was that if it was truly meaningless to you, you would off yourself. There are painless ways to do it and even the pain itself would be meaningless to you. What is a few moments of pain to a lifetime of emptiness?

google.com/search?q=rich people use more antidepressants&oq=rich people use more antidepressants&aqs=chrome..69i57.9545j0j4&client=ms-android-americamovil-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

There are a shitload and this is far from an unknown trend. Take your pick. Searching up similar terms will bring up similar results.

You clearly didn't read Nietzsche. Nihilism is merely a stage on the journey of evolution to ubermensch, with some of the most potentially dramatic pitfalls in said journey. By Nietzsche's reasoning, it's something to be accepted, and then overcome, not an end destination.

Ya gotta go all the way back to the stoics and sophists for the source of nihilism. Descartes and his dragon would be better described as the father of the modern variant, even if he didn't advocate it.

>Your comment was the non sequitur.
In what way? It was in *direct reference* to the faulty logic in the part of your post I quoted.

>And my point about dying was that if it was truly meaningless to you, you would off yourself.
And this is exactly what I called a non sequitur. To spell it out more explicitly: It does not follow logically that X should be dropped, refrained from, counteracted or in any way negated *just because X has no "meaning"*. A lack of meaning is a *description* with no prescriptive implications whatsoever, let alone logically necessary ones. This is why I'm calling your line of reasoning a non sequitur. Do you understand my objection now or is further, more in-depth elaboration required?

>What is a few moments of pain to a lifetime of emptiness?
Meaninglessness and "emptiness" are hardly synonymous in this existential context. One could very well acknowledge a lack of meaning in X ("meaning" in the sense of an answer to the question of "Why?") while still enjoying X on a purely reductionist "stimulus/response" level (I don't mean "stimulus-response" in the behavioral psychology sense, I just mean a literal pleasure-sensation-generating biochemical response to a stimulus). In a word: It is not necessary to attribute actual meaning to something in order to prefer it to its negation.

Besides, this question is self-defeating to begin with, because if someone sees literally no value in anything, then they wouldn't see a value in ending their "lifetime of emptiness" instead of living it out either. Again, there is no prescriptive power in the acknowledgment of a lack of meaning. None whatsoever. You haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary yet. You've just repeated over and over again that if someone believed there to be no meaning to life, they would end it. Repetition doesn't suffice; elaborate on the logical steps. Tell me how you go from the descriptive "X has no meaning" to the prescriptive "I *should* quit X".

Plants move their leaves after interpreting where the sun is.
Bees learn where pollen be and communicate that to their buddy bees who understand.
Complex stable state ecological systems
interpret and respond to disturbance with a casual mind.
The earth is roughly spherical and mindedness is intrinsic to life, it's what allows life to live. You probably have some Cartesian dogma lying around your conceptualization of the mind.
Get with the times
link.springer.com/journal/12304

>DUDE MORALITY IS A SPOOK LMAO FOLLOW YOUR OWN PATH!

>but also, you need to subscribe to my cookie cutter leftist world view or you are morally a bad person

Stirner a shit

>humanity
Gr8 sp00k m8

what did he mean by this?

Your friend is a more rigorous, a more intellectually honest, and a more thoroughgoing nihlist than what anyone else in this thread is likely to have replied with, or to suggest as "better" (lol!) nihilists, or nihilistic programs, OP.

Your buddy, as you have described him, is the paragon of nihilism. Don't let anyone ITT dissuade you from that simple truth.

>nothing matters
you would sing a very different tune if everybody in your country thought this way and society fell

>when they're mad because they aren't you

Tell him his philosophy is filled with brownies and furries. If he believes you, end the relationship betwist the two of you. If he knows better, he's capable of being properly trained.

Give him estrogen and make him your bitch

Not him but I've done the thought experiment where every Emergency Room worker and every Doctor everywhere in the world just up and gets convinced of Nihilism, so they immediately stop treating everyone because Why Not. Many of them are killed by families in the immediate aftermath, out of sheer rage.

Even in this case, Nothing Really Mattress still holds good as a general principle. Even in the case where the animal naturally squeals and remembers its urge to self-preservation, the principle still holds good. That animals just plain do what they do is no sort of a disproof of it, as you and most "appeal to common-sense" adults falsely believe to be the case.

Cognitive Nihilist.

Things come and go and past. Other things stay for eternity. Sometimes beings with superior powers of moral judgement appear. But not yet.

The smell of hay has more merit than all religious tenets and moralities combined.