How accurate is this show Veeky Forums? Would this be at all how it would play out...

How is it in any way Marxist?

It's not even remotely historically accurate though? It's just alt-history. In fact alt-history is one of the themes.

>is this totally counter-factual piece of science fiction accurate?

This is not an answerable question.

>everything looks like cookie cutter cheesy version of 50s America except everything is draped in swastikas and people are throwing nazi salutes every five seconds like cartoon characters
It's fucking pulp. The only thing it lacks are those nazi dominatrixes with whips or Holocaust mechs.

world war thread #9543098453899874538453843589435793457854

>everything looks like cookie cutter cheesy version of 50s America

You'd forget that the author actually lived in the 50s and is a better source on this than you are. Not to mention it's actually set in the 60s. Not that you would know the difference.

>It's not even remotely historically accurate though? It's just alt-history. In fact alt-history is one of the themes.

I don't even have to post this, since no one has actually given proof, nor I believe knows what the definition of proof is. Nevertheless, PKD spent years reading the old SS archives, he knows a great deal about the subject, even the most fantastic of projects (desalinating the mediterranean) were real policy proposals during the Reich.

In logic sometimes one takes a series of statements and assumes them to be true. All PKD did was take the well documented statements that the nazis did in fact make, and assumes them to occur. It's an accurate portrayal of the goals and philosophy of the Reich. Which is to say it is as accurate as it is possible to be accurate for a hypothetical scenario.

Wrong
I can give lots of answers

japan occupying half of america somehow

It is fiction, set in an alternate timeline. The only accuracy we can verify is whether the showrunners stay true to the source material.

And how close was Nazi Germany to making the bomb? It's alt-history. And it's not minor tweak alt-history. It's pulp-alt-history. What the fuck does accurate even mean to you?

If the USA were defeated in war, occupation seems par for the course. You've declared the statement illogical while simultaneously ignoring the premise.

that never could have happened

>You'd forget that the author actually lived in the 50s and is a better source on this than you are.
The author is a fucking retard bar none and all of his "work" would be completely forgotten if Scott didn't decide to film Blade Runner.

>how historically accurate is a show about something that never happened
You tell me lol

It was a legitimate enough threat to warrant the massive expenditure of the Manhattan Project.

PKD got all Slavs genocided for some reason even though the bullshit Generalplan Ost didn't target the nazi Slavic allies.

When they announced this show I was hoping for at least one episode where they go into how the Axis managed to pull it off and the state of the world as it is in their timeline. Instead it divulges into some bullshit about films showing the allies winning the war and for some reason Hitler wants to see them despite never really divulging into exactly why.

Also the actor for trudy the main character is utter garbage.

And Red Alert is fucking awesome.

PKD was a literary phenomenon before Blade Runner. If you must blather on, try not to immediately blow your load on something that can be easily and definitively refuted. The Man in the High Castle won the Hugo award in 1963. Maybe movie watching normies wouldn't have read it, but in due fairness, they didn't read to begin with.

That's because that's generalplan Ost. The policy referred to was the Hungerplan.

It shows that a USA vs Soviet Union cold war was equally incomprehensible to people living in a Japanese-German cold war, and that the crises of the modern era would not disappear had different actors taken part.

This. It's soft science fiction, using the setting to explore concepts through character interaction. People who argue over the "inaccurate" setting are missing the point.

The war ended before the Germans were able to develop the bomb, and that was without America using the bomb.

If you definition of "accurate" is things loosely based on historical things instead of straight up made up, then you need to get your head checked.

The book is self-reflexive about being alt history. That's why the McGuffin is "The Grasshopper Lies Heavy" a work of alt-history fiction within a work of alt-history fiction.

>While the early 1942 west coast air strength looked impressive on paper, it was actually subject to many qualifications, the most important of which was that only 39 of the bombers and 239 of the pursuit planes were ready for combat action.15 Rather acute bomb and ammunition shortages continued, and the deficiencies in personnel qualified to operate the planes were even more serious. On 12 March the Fourth Air Force commander noted that his bombardment squadrons were "all dangerously short of experienced pilots and navigators, and almost totally lacking in bombardiers and trained gunners." 16 On 24 May the IV Interceptor Command reported that nearly half of its assigned pilots were not qualified to fly the planes with which its four groups were equipped-one of the four having more planes than qualified pilots. This report concluded with the observation, "Considering the handicaps imposed by lack of sufficient suitable airdromes, inadequate housing facilities, unsuitable aircraft radio equipment, [and] mass replacement of fighter units by new units with less than two weeks training, the efficiency of the Command is excellent.17 The continued preoccupation of the Fourth Air Force with training was both inevitable and proper under the circumstances, but it certainly reduced its efficiency as a defense force.

>As in the cases of Hawaii and Panama, one of the most puzzling problems in air defense along the west coast was how to provide enough forces to detect an enemy carrier force many hundred miles from the coast and to attack it before it could launch its planes. The problem on the Pacific coast was complicated by much fog, and by the prospect of a Japanese carrier force sailing in behind one of the normal succession of storm fronts that moved from the northern Pacific toward the west coast. The best defense against carriers was to find and strike at them within a belt 700 to 1,100 miles offshore. The only planes that could do this were Army heavy bombers and Navy patrol bombers. The Fourth Air Force in January estimated that it would require 162 Army and 180 Navy planes of these types to perform this mission, but usually in the first five months of 1942 neither service had more than a tenth of these strengths available.

tl;dr Military planners knew that a defeat in Asia meant the west coast was vulnerable to attack, forward defense works in principle, but carries with it a risk of catastrophe if the expeditionary force is defeated and cannot maintain critical mass of carrier strength to deter attacks against the drydocks and aircraft factories.

I probably read more of his books than you did. Hipsters still keep fawning over Time out of Joint for example even though it's absolute garbage.

It's assuming an alternate-timeline
>In the novel's parallel history, U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt was assassinated by Giuseppe Zangara on February 15, 1933, leading to the continuation of the Great Depression and U.S. isolationism during the opening of World War II.
>Adolf Hitler led Nazi Germany to conquer most of Europe and the Soviet Union, murdering Jews, Roma, Slavs, and other groups. Meanwhile, Imperial Japan occupied China, before taking control of India and Oceania.
>The Nazis then helped Italy conquer most of Africa. As Japan invaded the U.S. West Coast, Germany invaded the U.S. East Coast and most of South America.
>By 1947, the U.S. and the remaining Allies surrendered to the Axis, ending the war.
It also has another alternate history book within it, about the Allies winning, called The Grasshopper Lies Heavy.
>President Roosevelt survives an assassination attempt but forgoes re-election in 1940, honoring George Washington's two-term limit.
>The next president, Rexford Tugwell, removes the Pacific fleet from Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, saving it from Japanese attack, which ensures that the U.S. enters the conflict a well-equipped naval power.
>The United Kingdom retains most of its military-industrial strength, contributing more to the Allied war effort, leading to Rommel's defeat in North Africa; the British advance through the Caucasus to fight alongside the Soviets to victory in the Battle of Stalingrad
>Italy reneges on its membership in the Axis Powers and betrays them
>Nazi leaders—including Adolf Hitler—are tried for their war crimes, wherein the Führer's last words are Deutsche, hier steh' ich ("Germans, here I stand" in imitation of Martin Luther.
>After the war, the British Empire does not collapse. The Soviet Union, crippled by war losses, collapses. The U.S. establishes strong business relations with Chiang Kai-shek's right-wing regime in China
>The British Empire becomes more expansionist post-war
>Cold War with the US

>If you definition of "accurate" is things loosely based on historical things instead of straight up made up, then you need to get your head checked.

I've already stated it is as accurate as a hypothetical scenario is possible to be accurate. Which is to say I am talking about the work itself, the deductive validity of events stemming from predefined parameters. You are talking strictly about the premise. You aren't even talking about the book. It boggles the mind that you even bother to mention the author, then.

>Hating on PKD
Found the contarian

>there are actually people who seriously believe the Axis could have invaded and occupied the United States
And on a history board no less

>germans still using KAR 98's and MP40's in 1960
>japs having the military might to take over the west coast
>japs having enough influence in the axis to get the west coast from Germany
>Italy being absorbed into Germany for no reason

Are you an idiot? New to the thread, but holy shit

>Military planners knew that a defeat in Asiameant the west coast was vulnerable to attack, forward defense works in principle, but carries with it a risk of catastrophe if the expeditionary force is defeated and cannot maintain critical mass of carrier strength to deter attacks against the drydocks and aircraft factories.

This is the stupidest thing I've read in days

First off, "Military defeat in Asia", should it even happen, wouldn't be instantaneous. It took months for the Japanese to subdue the Philippines, and they were cut off, in the heartland of Japanaese ability to project power, and surprised. It would take months more to defeat the Pacific Fleets decisiviely, hope you can invade Hawaii, and start projecting force to the West Coast.

In this time, I'm pretty sure the Americans wouldn't have their thumbs so far up their collective asses as to be unable to build more planes or send them to the coast.

Then there's the fact that Hawaii itself had pretty significant air defenses, and would almost certainly have to be subdued before strikes at the mainland would be possible, and by the start of 1942, you had over 100,000 soldiers on the islands.

history.army.mil/books/wwii/Guard-US/ch8.htm

1/2

But say you do all of that somehow, and you start having Japanese raiders buzzing the West Coast. So fucking what? Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to keep shit down on WW2 strategic bombing? This is a pic related about the bombs dropped on Germany. Despite dropping literally over a million tons, not pounds, TONS of bombs on Germany in 1944, German aircraft production went up.

For comparison, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the first wave attacked with 89 B5Ns Which can carry at most (1760 lbs of bombs), and 51 D3As, (550 pounds apiece), for 169,339 lbs. Then there was a second wave, of 54 B5Ns, and 78 D3As, which would get you around 137,940, for a grand total of 307,279 pounds, or a bit over 153 tons.

For comparison, the normal complement of a B-17 was about 8,000 pounds, meaning you could match the tonnage with one sortie of less than 40 strategic bombers, which would be a relatively small raid in 1943. You will never, ever succeed in doing large scale strategic bombing damage with tiny little carrier planes. And that's ignoring the fact that the bulk of the American aircraft factories would be located far out of range of the stupid things anyway.

The U.S. was at 0 existential risk from the Japanese, even if the war goes impossibly badly.

2/2

>How accurate is this show Veeky Forums? Would this be at all how it would play out
Remember you're posting a board of pure-autism, so you are not allowed to ask how "accurate" an alt-history show is, as by definition, it is not at all.

But at least you didn't ask how "historically accurate" Game of Thrones is, as even I'm autistic enough to jump all over you at that point.

As for the PKD haters here - one should remember that this show and the original book have nothing to do with each other. The similarities between the book and this production begin and end with the US being divided between Japan and Germany after WWII. ...and that's pretty much it. The original book offers no alternate universe traveling, or anything supernatural at all, and offers an entirely different premise as to how this all came to be, as well very different view as to the nature of the cultural makeup of both the occupying nations.

Then again, in the book, the German's seem to have more or less sterilized Africa with nuclear carpet bombing, and are performing their first manned mission to mars. So...

>or is this just Marxist masturbation?
Wut?

From what I've read about the book (haven't read the actual book) the story is kind of Lost esc as well. It's really a story that happens to takes place in an alternative history timeline as opposed to the alternate history being the main theme of the plot.

This being said, calling it "greater nazi Reich" is infuriating political correctness.

That's nice, but that's not how alt-history works, ya damned autistic fuck.

Just change shit until you have the scenario presented - doesn't much matter if you have to go back and change how the fall of Rome happened or the prehistoric evolution of man to do so, or just change the exact moment at which one person winked at another. A retroactive hand of god is involved in any case.

Granted, it's partly OP's fault for phrasing it the way he did. You can't really ask how accurate alt-history is. You can't even really ask how plausible it is, beyond asking much you'd need to change for a particular scenario to occur (which, in this case, would be quite a lot).

You might be able to ask how accurate a presentation the actions of the factions in this scenario might be, given the various cultural outlooks at the time. In this case, I'd say "not very" as, in addition to the fact that these seem to be cookie-cutter cardboard cut-outs of the cultures involved, the cultures don't seem to be in anyway impacted by the fact that they've won their wars and been at peace for nearly twenty years. Becoming world dominant powers would have radically changed the look out of both Japan and Germany, and yet what you see here is merely a continuation of rhetoric that they spawned out of desperation in desperate times.

>Bring quote from 1964 civil defense report
>Point out how even in the worst case scenario it posits, of Japanese carriers launching raids against the West Coast, wouldn't mean jack shit
>It's alt-his, so it doesn't matter.

In addition, the problem is that the shit that the author changed isn't anything near enough to produce the result claimed. Could additional, further changes have yielded a alt-his where Gemany and Japan carving up the U.S. in 40s and 50s? Sure. But claiming that FDR gets assassinated and the U.S. enters an isolationary period is nowhere fucking close to enough to get anywhere near that point. Especially in the geopolitics of Asia and the Pacific arenas, where American interest long predated FDR, and you had influential lobbies pressing for American involvement in China all the way back to the late 19th century.

That's what makes it stupid, not the idea of alt-his in general.

They would be utterly meaningless.

Actually its pretty sympathetic to the Nazis and Japanese.

Himmler is actually competent too.

I suspect they will ruin it eventually and let the "good guys" win, but so far in the second season is pretty based.

There is the a few scenes that gave me shivers.

Also the ending credit song to the second season finale is also the best song ever. Listen all the way through.

youtu.be/HlPv13rG6sE

The show is hilariously inaccurate for so many reasons that's it's hard to explain exactly how hilariously inaccurate it is without degenerating into pure autism.

The Nazis were nowhere near building a nuclear weapon* and completely incapable of building a bomb while simultaneously fighting a war, they lacked the manpower to ever actually occupy the US, lacked the bombers to even hit Washington, the Japanese didn't even have the manpower to occupy China, let alone the US, the Nazi economy and political system was entirely unsustainable, carrying out Hitler's plans in Eastern Europe alone would have bled them white, did I mention they were nowhere near building a nuke?...the whole thing is absurd.

Just treat it as a goofy story about a fictional world where Nazis rule. Not a "historical fiction" type story by any stretch of the imagination, just pure fantasy and maybe an interesting exploration of the "it could never happen here" fallacy.

*Heisenber thought there wasn't enough uranium/plutonium on earth to build a nuke, and the Nazis lacked the resources to undertake something as massive as a bomb without simultaneously gutting their army and air force (which would have, of course, cost them the war).

Another sane person, thank god. Anyone who thinks this is even remotely realistic, please read that post.

Look. It's not supposed to a goddamn documentary.

Its science fiction. Maybe some random schnubb got born instead of having his mother fall down the stairs that helped Hitler build the goddamn bomb. *spoiler* [spoiler]Maybe it was one of the people who could transfer from world to world that was a Nazi sympathizer.[/spoiler]

The point is. Iron Sky is a pretty good movie too, but at no time does it claim to be a documentary.

If you want historical accuracy go back in time and watch the Hitler Channel.

Its premise is an alternate timeline. Plus it's soft science fiction, as said. The setting isn't the point, rather it is using the setting to create circumstances in which themes can be explored. The book is pretty good, didn't watch the show though.

for a second there I thought u were posting that scene from the finale. Does anyone have one? With sound?

>The setting isn't the point, rather it is using the setting to create circumstances in which themes can be explored.

I know. That's exactly what I'm saying. Look at my post again.

>"Not a "historical fiction" type story by any stretch of the imagination, just pure fantasy and maybe an interesting exploration of the "it could never happen here" fallacy."

But some people do seem to believe that it's meant to be realistic, and that's what I'm criticizing. The scenario requires more than a "random schnubb got born", as the other user puts it, it would require full-blown divine or alien intervention.

Yeah, but it spoils the whole goddamn two seasons so you have been warned!

Here it is:

youtu.be/HW-C8KJ5Pr8

Not that guy, but you're missing the magnitude of how big something like atomic warfare is. You add in some random genius that didn't exist historically, and I dunno, he licks the theoretical problems that plagued the German nuclear program and has a theoretical working of a bomb.

In real life, it took the Americans from the close of 1942 till July of 1945 to be able to go from that to actually building a working bomb, and that's with enormously more access to things like uranium, as well as just general wealth to throw around on superweapon projects like this.

THEN, once you have a bomb, you still need to deploy it, which is going to be tough because

A) The Luftwaffe is badly losing the war in the air from about 1942 onwards
B) They never focused on strategic bombing and didn't have an airframe capable of transporting a nuke, let alone through enemy defenses.

Then, assuming you get the nuke, you're left with the issue that 1st gen nuclear weapons were "only" about as powerful as very large scale bombing raids. Attacks on Tokyo or Hamburg killed more people than the nukes did, and that was done with just a lot of planes dropping bombs. Japan was already prostrate and nearly defenseless when the atomic weapons were launched at them, and it's a hell of a difference between postulating their surrender was due to the nukes (which, if you've spent any time here, is hardly an uncontested theory, even though I do lean to it myself), and to say that America would give up the second a nuclear bomb went off, assuming the Germans could even get one there.

It's science fiction, but it's stupid science fiction. The changes it postulates to the timeline aren't enough to yield the outcome asserted.

I blame the History Channel and its endless stream of "NAZI SUPERWEAPONS: HITLER WAS *THIS* CLOSE" programming for the misconception that the Nazis could have built a bomb.

That, and the way the US and USSR churned them out by the thousands between 1950 and whenever the hell SALT II was signed (1980?). It's really minimized how difficult of an undertaking building one of those things was in the early 1940s.

Look. I'm going into spoilers here, but ... You are aware in this universe people have the ability to transfer from one universe to another and there appears to be many unviverses (not just two).

Sometimes the Germans lose, sometimes win, sometimes San Fran gets nuked, sometimes not. So these films are from many universes and not just two.

So given that. It's sci-fi. It could be possible a Nazi sympathizer found out how to make the bomb and transferred universe. Hitler is aware of the films and its meaning so its something he had knowledge of so it could be possible they achieved their nuclear supremacy through this.

But that's not the point. Its the point that German had the bomb whether by Heisenberg or sci-fi trope.

If you are troping around reality and documentary, you are dumb because inter dimensional travel is not a thing in reality.

>First off, "Military defeat in Asia", should it even happen, wouldn't be instantaneous.

Literally defined as failure to maintain critical mass of carriers, without which the Pacific fleet could not operate. It's hinted that Japan won the battle of the Coral Sea, possibly depriving the US of three carriers without which it cannot launch the ambush at Midway. Japan doesn't have to single handedly win the war, no one has suggested this, but there are some things it can do to turn its overall contribution from a minus to a plus.

>Its science fiction
There is nothing scientific about it, it's pure fantasy on par with Tolkien and Star Wars.

Well, first off, I only read the book, and that was years ago, I haven't seen the show.

Secondly, the point I'm making, is that even IF Germany gets the bomb first, or Germany gets the bomb and America doesn't, THAT ISN'T ENOUGH TO OVERCOME THE ODDS.

So I will say for about the third time, the stupidity is that the changes in the timeline don't go far enough to lead to the outcome asserted.

ITT High Castle babby getting rekt left and right

Ok. I was going to argue you about the Star Wars thing, but I guess interdimensional travel is kind of fantasy.

So ok its Science Fantasy just like Star Wars.

It doesn't make Star Wars a shitty movie because its not grounded in reality.

>Literally defined as failure to maintain critical mass of carriers, without which the Pacific fleet could not operate

The Pacific fleet being unable to effectively operate does not mean that the West Coast is vulnerable, given the range limitations on Japanese carriers.

>. It's hinted that Japan won the battle of the Coral Sea, possibly depriving the US of three carriers without which it cannot launch the ambush at Midway.

Ok, so what? Hawaii is still essentially unassaible from the sea, with troop counts in the 6 digits and hundreds of land based planes. The U.S. builds more Essexes and 6 months to a year later than they did historically, they crush the Japanese with those. Meanwhile, if they're really, absurdly lucky, the Japanese can launch a few pinprick strikes on whatever's on the West Coast, doing about as much damage as 40 B-17s each time they send pretty much their entire carrier fleet out per raid.

By the way, this assumes that these CVP make it inland without being shot down by land based planes or aren't shredded by flak or anything and have the intelligence capability to even know where critical American facilities within reach of their carriers are.

Don't be absurd. Tolkien draws real life mythological parallels into how stories get corrupted over time into his fictional mythology, which is why, for instance, the exploits of the Rohirrim are exaggerated in a book that's largely penned by people who feel a kinship to the men of the Mark and not to the Gondorians.

So autistic over fantasy and science fiction movies! OMG! I can't watch good movies cause elves and aliens not a real thing!

Not him but OP is asking whether the show is historically accurate and it obviously is not. It's Captain America tier.

That's still better than getting their asses kicked and allows themselves to develop a self sufficient economic base while the US is busy wasting time building land based air power that doesn't project anywhere else.

Are you literally illiterate? Or are you simply stupid? I enormously enjoy good fantasy or sci-fi. But they too, need internal consistency. This does not, the world it creates doesn't work from its own stated premises.

Of course it's not historical accurate, but its still worth watching.

If you are an autist that watches only historically accurate movies, then you don't watch any movies.

>still worth watching
Well no, it has pretty shit production values and generally comes off as cheap. Pretty mediocre plebeian entertainment overall.

>can't even get dubs

No. Your a goddamn autist if you can't watch movies without suspension of disbelief.

Yes there are some movies that are unwatchable and would make you rage to watch, but Man in the High Castle is not on of them.

>That's still better than getting their asses kicked

Well, I guess.

>and allows themselves to develop a self sufficient economic base

That is extremely unlikely. The U.S., come the end of 1942, was completing an Essex class carrier roughly one every 2 months. Even if the entire carrier fleet has to be reconstructed from scratch, they'll still have a carrier advantage by the close of 1944, and be able to resume the offensive. That's not enough time to get Japan economically self-sustaining.

> while the US is busy wasting time building land based air power that doesn't project anywhere else.

The problem is that the U.S. is so wealthy they can afford to build 8 carriers for every one the Japanese build AND spam out land based planes AND conduct a war in Europe AND assemble marines, troop transports, supplies, etc. simultaneously. Losing initiative in 1942 doesn't mean much since the Japanese don't really have the means to capitalize on their initial successes.

>reddit spacing
>defending a reddit show
Like pottery

>No. Your a goddamn autist if you can't watch movies without suspension of disbelief.

You are a goddamn imbecile who doesn't understand how "internal consistency" is different from "willing suspension of disbelief".

Let me reiterate. I like Tolkien quite a bit. I like Star Wars, (Well, the first trilogy anyway), even read quite a bit of Zahn's expanded universe stuff. I'm an enormous fan of Stephen Donaldson, and on occasion correspond with him, and he wrote some serious fantasy stuff.

What I don't like are fictional works that state the premises of X, Y, and Z, and then don't follow logically where those premises lead them.

Please, consider going back to the 3rd grade and learning basic literacy.

This show is fantasy, and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that it seems to have spawned a legion of weaboos/wehraboos who now have a horribly distorted view of history.

Look at it this way: imagine that Netflix made a show about Black Romans. Called it "the Black Empire". The backstory is that the Nubians maintain their control of Egypt and manage to conquer all of Europe.

Absurd, right? It's just fantasy. But wouldn't you get really annoyed by the inevitable explosion of "we wuz kangz" black people who treat it like a fucking documentary?

This show is really fucking annoying desu, just muh Jews. What really gets under my skin is how they show 'Nazi America' as having a swastika on every square inch of the country.

I would totally watch a "WE WUZ" alternative history of Europe.

>nazis in real life were white
>nazis in the show are white

>romans in real life weren't black
>romans in your show are black

find the odd one out

I know right. The triggering.

Oh for fuck's sake. I bet you hated Iron Sky.

You're missing my point. I'm talking about a "historical fantasy" scenario where blacks conquer Europe. You know, kind of like how Man in the High Castle has Germans and Japanese conquering the US?

Yeah, I have to admit it would be funny as fuck.

>"Black Eagle"
>Directed by Shaun "I swear I'm black you guys!" King
>Executive Producers: Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Spike Lee

>How accurate is this show Veeky Forums?
Completely inaccurate lol, the Nazis didn't even win WWII.

that's nice but it implies Japan wanted American mainland soil

Two additional years to prepare defenses, seize Rabaul and Australia, and train new crews, was the exact Japanese plan. From the beginning the wanted to seize enough territory to form an impenetrable defense and blockade allied supplies. Taking australia means supplies can only go in one direction either way.

Not all naval raids need to destroy factories. A few well place submarine groups can blockade shipments of strategic minerals, notably around South America, and South Africa. The most common steel production method requires Manganese, which the US does not produce at all. Although nitrogen fixing from the air was done, it could not supply more than 25% of the massive wartime nitrogen consumption, given that it is the main component of explosives, as well as agricultural fertilizer - an industry that can't be skimped out on because people need to eat.

Literally Babby's first alt-history.

>Two additional years to prepare defenses

user, the Ameircans are outproducing the Japanese roughly 8:1, and that's with shouldering burdens on other theaters which can theoretically be dropped should the need arise.

No amount of fortification will overcome those odds.

>seize Rabaul

They did seize Rabaul. It wasn't nearly enough to win them the war.

>and Australia

How the hell, even if the Pacific Fleet is obliterated, are the Japanese going to take Australia? Do you have any idea what a massive undertaking that would be, stretching their already weak supply lines another couple of thousand kilometers, and trying to fight a large, overland camapign that they did so badly, and this time not even in the jungles, but in flat, open terrain where their lighter euqipment really hurts them?

>From the beginning the wanted to seize enough territory to form an impenetrable defense and blockade allied supplies

There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. An. Impenetrable. Defense. If you hit any point hard enough, it'll break eventually.

>Taking australia means supplies can only go in one direction either way.

Taking Australia is non-feasible. Australia fielded almost half a million men by 1942, and to transport a force big enough to fight that and win was beyond the capbilities of the Japanese, even if they completely control the seas. Given that you did have rail connection on both ends of the dwarf continent, you run into additional problems that you can't blockade both the east coast and the west simultaneously, giving the British or the Americans the chance to run in reinforcements or supplies, should that even be necessary.

1/2

>. A few well place submarine groups can blockade shipments of strategic minerals, notably around South America, and South Africa.

user, they couldn't even blockade Hawaii in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor, in large part because it took about 2/3 of the fuel load of a type KD7, the most modern type available at the outbreak of war, just to get there and back. I don't even think they can reach south America unless they want it to be a one way trip, and if they did, well, good luck blockading a coastline that's tens of thousands of miles long.

Do you remember the Battle of the Atlantic? Where the Germans were way more successful than the Japanese ever were? Yeah, some 80-90% of all shipments still got through.

> The most common steel production method requires Manganese, which the US does not produce at all.

And primarily imported from Mexico. Please explain how the fuck the Japanese fleet stops overland transport.

2/2

Oh yeah, and by the way, the U.S. was still producing Manganese in WW2

encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=4315

You don't have to block the whole coast, just the tip.

>And primarily imported from Mexico.

Wrong.

>You don't have to block the whole coast, just the tip.

So, when the cargo ships go to somewhere that has a port (ports are all over) and that's not at the tip of a continent, you'll...... do nothing I guess.

>Wrong

>United States Net Import Reliance on Selected Strategic Minerals as a Percent of Apparent Consumption 1984
>1984

They were still fighting WW2 in nineteen eighty four? Gee user, thanks. I had no idea that WW2 lasted for that long. Didn't come up in any of the history books I've read on the subject. Truly, you are a saint among men for dispensing such valuable information!

You're wasting your time. You're fighting Wehraboos or Weaboos. Think of them like a religious cult. The Nazis/Japs were always *this* close to winning, and no amount of actual facts will convince them otherwise.

>So, when the cargo ships go to somewhere that has a port (ports are all over) and that's not at the tip of a continent, you'll...... do nothing I guess.

You catch them when they go around the tip.

I sure did.

Read Foucault.

the song is from the movie Cabaret.

Not sure why everyone is arguing from the position of a couple of things changing during the war.
he two timelines diverge back in 1933 with FDR being assassinated and the resulting policies leaving USA stuck in the great depression and by the time of that universe's WW2 equivalent, not a military superpower like they were here.
You can't just say oh the US could outproduce the Japs 8:1 it's impossible they could lose. We're talking about a radically different US which is already industrially crippled and unprepared for

Well for one, the Axis lost WW2. I'm not sure how they messed that fact up. Still a good show though.

Japan attacking the US was already a last ditch effort because they were overextended in Manchuria. An invasion of the West Coast was POSSIBLE, but not realistic on the Japanese side of things.

Oooh fuck didn't know the second season is already out

user, the Great Depression wasn't a result of insufficient manufacturing capability, it was a result of insufficient demand and prices falling through the floor.

That manufacturing capability is still there; it's one of the reasons why the military buildup is one of the things that put America back on the road to prosperity. The U.S. wasn't exactly a military superpower in 1939 either, it had a land army smaller than fucking Portugal's. But the industrial potential was there, and wasn't built by FDR.

Defending an argument along that line just shows you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

>Marxist masturbation
Why are you under the impression that anything that has Nazis as the antagonist is communist?