I thought it was a bubble, but now I'm not so sure.
Convince me one way or the other, Veeky Forums
Muh /bubble/ general
Anthony Hall
William Diaz
tbqh, not sure either. I think we need an east asian perspective on this matter. If it keeps getting adopted by people around the world, this shit won't be a bubble. Allegedly Korbit started seeing some major traffic. It won't be a bubble as long as there's more flow in from different places.
William Reed
There's no such thing as currency bubble you fool.
Currency is worth whatever people decide it's worth.
Bubble have to do with things that have intrinsic value. There can be a car bubble because you can say what a car costs to produce and then you can say it's overpriced and there is a bubble.
You can't say USD is "overpriced" USD is just a currency and it's price is whatever people decide it is. It has no intrinsic value, it's price is purely decided by trust and market.
Same with crypto. You can argue crypto should be worth more than USD because it has clear technological advantages, but you can't say it's ever in a bubble.
Jaxon Jones
You're basically using semantics to argue that it is impossible for crypto to be a bubble. Which is just true no matter the logical gymnastics you try to pull.
Nicholas Walker
just untrue*
Dylan Cox
In order for something to become a bubble it must be possible to know it's intrinsic value.
Currency has no intrinsic value.
Carson Brown
but crypto is more than just currency
Nolan Roberts
true
"Q-1: How is virtual currency
treated for federal tax purposes?
A-1:
For federal tax purposes,
virtual currency is treated
as property."
Zachary Rivera
Look at the price/earnings ratios of crypto. In many cases, these are infinite as the cryptos have zero earnings. Many don't even have a working product yet have multimillion dollar market caps.
But on the other hand, blockchain technology probably will revolutionise a lot of industries - just as the internet did.
The parallels with the dot com boom are pretty clear in my mind: websites were getting multimillion dollar IPOs just because investors were banking on the internet being the next big thing. They were right, of course, but wrong that this would mean all current websites were going to incredibly valuable in future.
It's the same with crypto: a handful of coins/blockchains are going to be huge players in future (just like Google and Amazon emerged from the dot com bubble) but the vast majority of coins are shitcoins and will end up like pets.com or any other dot com failure.
Landon Rivera
Which coins do you think will make it? I only see Eth and Monero right now
Camden Garcia
By the way Shrkeli did a calculation with a formula that supposedly works for currency and found that the market price of BTC is about where it should be aka not a bubble
Carter Stewart
People will say that anything new is a bubble or fad, many said the same about the internet when it was starting.
Did you ever heard stories about how easy it was to earn money with the internet when it started? Did you ever heard about how unregulated it was? Did you ever heard about how people from outside were skeptical about It but now everybody is using? Crypto is facing a similar scenario. The profits are good and no one is really sure of anything because the industry is new and people don't understand it yet. Crypto is very similar to the birth of the internet in a way, which is why many say that the rise of crypto will be the birth of the internet 3.0.
Nicholas Wood
BTC is the only sure thing. If BTC fails, the market will go with it.
Luis Hernandez
It's really hard to say, and desu I still don't fully understand the ins and outs of most of these.
I think you're right about Eth, but I'm less confident about Monero.
There are probably coins/blockchain technologies yet to be released that will emerge as big players.
I think the future valuations of the ones that eventually make it will offset any losses you make on coins that end up not making it.
I used to hate BTC when I first started trading crypto, but now I've come round to it. Even if it's not the best currency, it makes sense as a store of value and as a way of hedging against stock market fluctuations, housing bubbles, fiat currency inflation, etc.
I'm not sure what will happen with future forks though.
Aaron Young
People who are new to crypto or to economics in general don't like BTC or think it will fail because they only look at crypto as a piece of technology, they think the most advanced technology is the best investment, when it isn't. When investing, one has to look from a economical stand point
Like you said, BTC is basically the pillar that sustain all other currencies, it's the safest bet in an extremely unsafe and volatile market. The only reason we invest in Crypto at all is because BTC make sure that we can cash out on our gains. To know why BTC is king and will continue to be, one has to ask the following question:
What's the most important thing when it comes to attracting investors and having a healthy market?
Answer: Security/trust. Without trust, no one will invest in the market because they will have fear of losing money and getting scammed.
>I'm not sure what will happen with future forks though.
It will go up, obviously. The only thing holding BTC down are technical details that only exist because it was the first of its kind. Fix those details and it will only increase in value.
Joshua Bell
Like a ponzi scheme the bubble will pop when no one else wants to buy in
Why would you buy in at this point?
Jason Adams
>you can't say USD is "overpriced"
Economics 101 faggot, yes you can. And, anyway, many people see bitcoin as an asset (something like gold f.e.)
Mason Adams
>Why would you buy in at this point?
Why would you not?
Gavin Powell
Yes, and gold aka an useless piece of shit that only has value because people attach value to it remained a valuable asset for centuries, so why something with real use and objective utility like crypto wouldn't ?
Chase Ortiz
>hundreds of shitcoins with zero applications used exclusively as pump and dump schemes
>two cryptocurrencies that will never be adopted to any serious degree because big businesses and nations can use the same blockchain technology to make their own systems
no you're right something can definitely appreciate in value by thousands of percent and never ever go down ever
Xavier Cox
Is anyone actually using crypto to buy shit, besides drugs? The whole point of a currency is to use it to buy things, but crypto is so unstable that a gallon of milk might cost you 3 dollars one month then 30 dollars the next. Everyone is just buying this shit in hopes to get rich and not to facilitate online transactions
Kayden Taylor
Every new market ends up being volatile, crypto will have a correction, and it should, that's for sure.
Going down or slowing down isn't the same as being a bubble or crashing. Literally every industry and market in history has a booming phase and given that it doesn't die, a stable phase.
That's the point, crypto still can't be used to buy most things, if it could, you would never have the insane gains you have now, simply because the market would already be stabilized you retard moron.
Here's the thing though, China, Japan, South Korea, Russia and most countries besides the USA are going all in with crypto. In Japan you can already pay many things using BTC, including normie-tier shit. The time where all normies use crypto and can buy anything with it will be the time that's not that profitable anymore for people like us
Brandon Ward
some day 1btc = 1btc.
Mason Fisher
don't be ridiculous user
Tyler Cook
We were lucky because we were early adopters who paid pennies for this shit
Would you advise your family to invest in this "market"? Lol
This ponzi scheme only has one more leg and thats for the retail buyers
Beware
Cameron Thomas
Bubble is a meme
The Internet bubble gave us Google Amazon and Facebook
Nolan Cruz
Why the fuck would the average person bother converting dollars to crypto just to spend them at the grocery store or on Amazon? The only way for crypto to ever be stable is for the dollar to be fucked
Landon Smith
It also gave us Pets.com
Nicholas Ortiz
>Would you advise your family to invest in this "market"?
Yes, as someone who actually traded stocks in the past, it's infinitely easier more secure to trade crypto than it is with normal markets.
>This ponzi scheme
People have been saying that crypto is a ponzi scheme since 2012 newfriend. Actually, ponzi scheme is the biggest buzzword of economics, you will see thrown around to describe any market people don't understand.
>Why the fuck would the average person bother converting dollars to crypto just to spend them at the grocery store or on Amazon?
Because crypto is objectively superior to fiat? Only reason people don't do this is because of 1) Trust 2) Knowledge and 3) accessibility(people can't even if they want to).
Tell me, why would you use fiat over crypto in a scenario where all stores use crypto and crypto is considered a stable market?
Christian White
Why use fiat over crypto? Hmm probably because like everyone else in America I get my paycheck in fiat and probably will for the rest of my life if the country itself doesn't crash? Do you honestly think companies are going to start paying employees in crypto when the dollar exists? I honestly can't see a future with multiple stable currencies in society at once. I think you are betting against the dollar ultimately
Jordan Williams
Hmm should we just fork eth/btc and distribute coins in a fair manner or buy late into this Ponzi scheme when the top 1% already owns 90% of the value
If the USA adopts crypto this will be the choice they'll have to make
Think about it :^)
Julian Flores
You basically proved my point. You use fiat because fiat is the standard/only currency, if BTC was accepted on every store, like you said Amazon for example, what you are saying now wouldn't be an argument, because crypto would be as standard or at least close to how standard the dollar is.
You are proving that the only reason people don't use crypto is the same reasons I mentioned above.
>Do you honestly think companies are going to start paying employees in crypto when the dollar exists?
Honestly, the only obstacle for that is banks and the US government, because like I said, crypto is objectively superior to fiat. Why would people not want to have the option to receive their payment in crypto? Or to exchange their money for crypto so that they can buy their shit using it?
>I honestly can't see a future with multiple stable currencies in society at once. I think you are betting against the dollar ultimately
You are right in one thing, crypto is a real treat to the dollar, which is why the US is so afraid of it and Russia/China are giving so much support.
Jose Harris
>treat
threat*
Ethan Walker
but if it's a threat to the dollar isn't it worth investing for short term gains or mid term hodling?
Isaac Kelly
My point is that even if it was accepted at every store like Amazon why would I convert my dollars into crypto to buy things with it? I would pay a vastly different amount of crypto depending on when I bought the item.
You say the "only" obstacle is the banks and US govt like this is a trivial thing. You basically need a giant economic collapse before it is even possible to use crypto for its intended purpose, such as buying a tank of gas or gallon of milk. And in that scenario its not like this transition is going to be smooth, where a bunch of fucking nerds who bought the latest memecoin are going to come out on top. We're talking massive internal wars and extreme poverty. You really wanna bet on crypto being stable at that point?
The govt does not give up power once it has it.
Parker Lopez
Golds price is determined the same way as cryptocurrency. That's why markets exist. When buyer and seller can agree on a price. That's the market price
Nolan Morris
If it's treated as property, then can I give it as a gift to someone, have them sell it, and then have them gift me the money back?
Chase Morales
>My point is that even if it was accepted at every store like Amazon why would I convert my dollars into crypto to buy things with it?
Why wouldn't you? It's faster, doesn't need a middleman and is private. Take ebay as a example, why wouldn't you use a version of ebay that functions around crypto and smart contracts, without a need for any middleman/third part holding your money? Not to mention absurd taxes that sites like ebay charge for each item sold and also the chance of having your private information being sold.
>You basically need a giant economic
Not necessarily, at least not on the scale you are talking about. Take Japan as a example, they are already adopting crypto in many places, which is only the beginning, and that didn't suddenly killed national their currency.
Not to mention US isn't the center of the world, although it effects the economics of It in a significant way. Russia's biggest bank is already working on an national crypto currency.
>And in that scenario its not like this transition is going to be smooth,
The transition will not be abrupt like you are thinking. It will happen over time. More and more stores will adopt crypto as time goes on unless some really strong law against it takes place. Which may happen, but I don't think it would last.
>where a bunch of fucking nerds who bought the latest memecoin are going to come out on top
Except there's actually really big people interested in this, not just smelly nerds on Veeky Forums. Also, the internet was a threat to government centralization and control when it started, and guess what, it also started with a bunch of fucking nerds.
Owen Butler
The normies know
Reeeeeee
Today's nytimes mention of bitcoin on front page
Anthony Fisher
How so? If crypto overthrows the dollar wouldn't you consider It a really long term hold?
Asher Gonzalez
It's not a threat to the dollar. It doesn't even approach a rounding error in terms of market cap. You faggots need to stop thinking of the economy like it's a WWF fight
Parker Morgan
I wouldnt use crypto for its intended purpose of buying things because it isn't stable. If I go on ebay and look at a case for my phone, its value in terms of dollars is ~10 bucks, whether I buy it today or a year from now. With crypto it could be 1 coin or 0.001 coins over the course of that year.
Goods have to be priced relative to something stable otherwise the currency is useless. The dollar serves that role for use now and will for a very long time I bet. I cannot rationally invest in something that does not accomplish what it intends to do. Its not a real currency, its a speculative investment filled entirely with ppl that are waiting to get rich. Why else would there be so many lambo memes on this board?
Hudson Rivera
Jaxson Miller
It is fake though.
Ryder Gomez
When you start hearing everyone say it's not a bubble...you can bet your ass it's a bubble.
Carson Bell
I would argue accessibility to said asset as well. Most people will immediately lose interest once you start going into paper wallet/cold storage/hard wallet semantics. This industry will take off as an asset class once average investors can use an ETF as an investment vehicle.
John Sanchez
Crypto isn't a bubble, crypto is useful tech that, even just as a currency, will continue to grow for years
Shitcoins are in a bubble, 99% of Alts are pure dotcom-tier trash that will go to zero in the near future
