Is it true that when Christians took power in the Roman Empire they killed 6 gorillion pagans?

I can't think of a more well-meaning, yet destructive force than Protestants.

God's will is the most powerful force in the universe.

It's not that big a deal.

Because one religion has been more thoroughly neutered of it's archaic bullshit than the other and east vs west is an underlying theme of human civilization

Except I've seen atheists with that POV too. I think that christians are delusional for believing it, but at least that have a genuine train of thought.

>Because one religion has been more thoroughly neutered of it's archaic bullshit
Yeah, in the last 300 years at mos. It was archaic af for the majority of its history and to think any differently of its history now just because it happened to change is nonsensical.
>east vs west is an underlying theme of human civilization
No it's fucking not. Human history is not something so basic that you can neatly tie it up with your shitty cold war tier blanket terms.

Ironic and unironic deus vult LARPers have an ideological crossover where Islam as a threat to western civilization stands.

Is Islam not a threat to western civilization?

>Yeah, in the last 300 years at mos.
With the explosion of record keeping, literacy and the speed at which people and information travel this relatively short time was transformative for the identity of the faith.

Archaic necessarily must be applied backwards because at many points in Christianity's history, it could be considered progressive.

>cold war
I wasn't even thinking of the cold war, but of over a millennia of cultural diffusion and trade between what were in their times and are similarly categorized contemporaneously as "eastern" and "western" peoples.

It is, but I disagree with the answer being to inflame and justify violence on either side.

The faith just needs to be neutered until it's a vestigial cultural practice in a form similar to nominally christian America's practice of Christianity.

>christian America's practice of Christianity.
Christianity in America is absolutely shit though.

What they really need is instruction on the correct way to have faith.

>Archaic necessarily must be applied backwards because at many points in Christianity's history, it could be considered progressive
So could Islam, but I conveniently find that people don't tend to see it that way for everything. Christianity and Islam have been moral equals for far longer than Christianity has been on the far higher moral ground. Even so, none of that addresses the problem which is that people are still making a false dichotomy. Why do people delude themselves into thinking that Christians didn't spread their faith through use of force like Muslims did. How progressive either of them were for their time is irrelevant in this context since the arguments of people today don't even hinge on the relative progressiveness of either for their time.
>but of over a millennia of cultural diffusion and trade between what were in their times and are similarly categorized contemporaneously as "eastern" and "western" peoples
What counts as "eastern" and "western" is subjective, meaning that of course history is going to look like that if your subjective POV frames it that way. To many other people though it doesn't look like that. To the Greeks the Persians were the "eastern" people. To the Persians the Indians were the "eastern" people. Looking through history with such a lens is a fairly modern concept in comparison to the totality of human history and the many different ways its been viewed over the years.

Shit how? The "supply-side" Jesus aspects? Prosperity gospel? Doomsday cultishness? Mega churches?

Personally, I was thinking of those who claim faith while seldom practicing or professing it. Otherwise non-religious Americans who might go to church on a major holiday, fill in the dot the says "Christian" if asked and get married in a church.

>christian America's practice of Christianity
You mean the practice that has managed to somehow make Africa even more fucked up than it already was? I'll take European Catholicism any day, thank you.

God's ways are not man's ways, user.

What's funny is that Catholicism is now romping all over Africa. The continent has produced some quality bishops and cardinals.

Reddit might be more your speed, mon ami

>what counts as...
Of course, but that's very easily accounted for between the records available to us and the understanding that it's being spoken of from the perspective of the modern west.

Modern lensing doesn't have to leave nuance behind.

>Why do people delude...
Binary thinking is easy and a serviceable tool to introduce and discuss a broad topic senpai

You missed nominally and vestigial

>Modern lensing doesn't have to leave nuance behind
No, but it doesn't make it inherently objective or consistent either. Even today what could be construed as "East" or "West" throughout history is subject to debate, especially when citing historical records. Again, Greek account, the Persian account, the Phoenician account, the Indian account, and the Chinese account all differ and one is not necessarily for objective than the others. Through a modern lens of Korean history, considering Arabia to be part of the "east" while making Greece part of the West would feel ridiculous and arbitrary.
>Binary thinking is easy and a serviceable tool to introduce and discuss a broad topic senpai
That doesn't make it any less illogical. That's the kind of thinking that gets people to believe that Columbus was the only guy who thought the earth was round. It's a quick and straightforward way to get the topic across to grade schoolers, but that doesn't make it correct in the slightest.

European Catholicism still seems like the better choice in this regard though. Americans are still far less nominal about their faith than western Europeans are, and are probably the most die hard religious 1st world country on the planet. If we're talking about the ideal, than we shouldn't settle for something like American Christianity, even if it is far better than what Islam currently has going.

>Personally, I was thinking of those who claim faith while seldom practicing or professing it.
And thats the problem with American Protestants. I mean I could imagine that being ideal for a secular society but the problem is, despite being some of the lamest and laziest branches of Christianity, their faith still manages to find a place in politics and culture even though it seldom matters to them on a day to day basis.

Even if you acknowledge Christianity was spread through force that doesn't mean you need to accept another forceful religion spreading.

I'm not talking about modern Islam. I'm talking about medieval Islam. People shit on medieval Islam for being spread through force, but conveniently forget about shit like the Northern Crusades. I don't give a shit about modern Islam, but going along with this narrative is blatant hypocrisy.

If narrative is that Christianity is comparatively less violent then Islam then that narrative is true.

*than Islam

There's a necessary acceptance of the arbitrary when discussing anything, especially history. What turns the arbitrary into not is simply authoritative recognition. The ethnic diversity of the Balkans weren't wholly accounted for in the rebordering done after WWI, but Yugoslavia persisted.

I just don't think it's so much of an issue to say, when discussing "easts" and "wests" as well in broad to mention or enter with a common understanding what the perspectives of the people situated in these areas were.

>That's the kind of thinking that gets people...Columbus
That's more elementary than what I had in mind, but maybe you've identified an issue with my thinking.

I tend to speak in binary for the good of the uninitiated listener and in writing, for ease of presentation (unless it's a term paper...anything being read by someone who knows what they're talking about).

Fair enough. I don't know much about modern European Catholicism, but my idea of nominally christian and vestigial cultural practices stem from American Catholic schooling.

I applied that experience to the whole of America's lapsed and cultural "faithful."

>The faith just needs to be neutered until it's a vestigial cultural practice in a form similar to nominally christian America's practice of Christianity.
Oh is that all?
We JUST need to clip Islam's balls off!
I feel so relieved, that all we have to do is convince several billion people their religion is incompatible with Western civilization in it's current form while simultaneously being forbidden from telling them their religion is incompatible with Western civilization in it's current form.

Thanks for straightening that out for me user!

de nada

Also a dove named "the holy spirit" flew into the room and perched atop the flag, and everyone held hands and sang "Kyrie Eleison".

For the first few centuries yeah, as opposed to Islam that began spreading by the sword and continued to do so.

Except that isn't true. Most people converted voluntarily

Except it is true and those who converted "voluntarily" were still pressured to do so.

Except they weren't. Millions of people were Christian before the empire made it the state religion btw.

>mug 6 gorillion pagans were forced to convert
Pick up a history book not written by varg.

And Christians didn't pressure people? The go to policy in most medieval catholic kingdoms was convert or gtfo. Non christians or jews literally weren't allowed to live in the country. That seems like a lot more pressure than the jizya.

estimates for the Christian population of the Roman empire in 300 are about 10% of the population. this was almost entirely in major cities and large towns. Christianity had barely touched rural areas before 400. Most "churches" before Constantine began building them were simply people meeting at someone's home. this is a far cry from "most people"

If that were the case, there wouldn't be any christians.

No one said most people were Christians. I millions of people were Christians.

mmm this person right here did. "millions" isn't too significant if it's only 10% of the population. I wouldn't be surprised if manichaeism had a similar number of followers. also don't forget that this 10% estimate is including all the groups that have long since been derided as heretics and rooted out by "orthodox" christianity

meant to give

Well "conversion" is different from "they were already converted."

By its nature the conversion of the empire couldn't have been a very violent affair. Besides sporadic drama like hestia (which was political based) I doubt most of the converting was done painfully.

A Vandal magister with known Arian tendencies was holding a symposium in honour of Demophilus, a known schismatic.
"Before the toasts begin, you must get on your knees and worship God and accept that he was the most divine entity the ecumene has ever known, even greater than Christus whom he created!"

At this moment, a venerable Praepositus Limitis who had served on the frontiers for decades and understood the necessity of taming the Barbaricum and fully supported the creed promulgated by the Great Constantinus rose from his couch and held up a crucifix.

"Who does this represent?"

The Rhenian cur smirked quite devilishly and smugly replied "the created child of an indivisible God"

"You miss the point. Jesus Christ our Dominus is of the same substance as God and thus equal to God."

The heretic was visibly shaken, and dropped his wine krater and copy of Eusebius' Onomastikon. He stormed out of the banquet hall crying those laetus crocodile tears. The same tears Donatists and Priscillians cry for the "poor" (who today are so holy that saints vie to kiss their feet) as they flee Roman territory to the outrage-committing Bacaudae in Armorica. There is no doubt that at this point the "learned" Vandal wished he had truly studied the work of the Holy Apostles and become more than a ludicrous teacher of rhetoric. He wished so much that he had a spatha to disembowel himself with due to the shame but he had sold all the city's arms for Gaiseric's ransom pay!

The party-goers politely clapped and all ceased their apostasy that day and accepted Jesus as the true Son of God. An divine light suddenly shone into the room and blazed upon the bust of Augustine and the statue wept miraculously. The Nicene Creed was recited, and Jesus Monogenes himself descended and banished the barbarians to the hellish wastes beyond the limes.

The magister lost his tongue and was castrated the following day. He was exiled to Troesmis, far from from God's Light.

Praise Jesus Consubstantialis

Muslims detected.

Where's this pic from?