Don't you sometimes wish Moors were allowed to retain certain parts of its culture after reconquista, simillar to how Rum nations were more-less left alone in Ottoman Empire?
Tbh we could have ended up with the most civillized version of Islam and even more interesting culture in Iberia.
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Al Andalus as a single culture is a meme. They were multiple dinasties controling the region with different rules and customs
Wouldn't it just be north morocco?
I do not claim otherwise, but I think that their culture is overlooked due to LE DEUS VULT XDD and LE EPIC RECONQUISTA memers. Crossroads of cultures are always more interesting than your average homogenic society (take Britain for example).
Does Morocco have any significant Christian influence?
I wish Arian Christianity could have survived.
>ywn spread your own truth amongst the g*rmans
To what purpose besides leading more men away from the true church?
Lol, yeah I tried to oost something very simular to this here. Too bad Veeky Forums is mostly hardcore Christianity. This thread is doomed dude, try talking to actual scholars instead.
why dont you explain further
>but I think that their culture is overlooked due to LE DEUS VULT XDD and LE EPIC RECONQUISTA memers.
But whom? It is overlooked and extremelly overrated if anything.
>Crossroads of cultures are always more interesting than your average homogenic society (take Britain for example).
This is what I was talking about. This might have been the case during the Taifas or during the caliphate but after that it was nothing like that and even Castille was more of a crossroads of cultures than Granada or the Almohad period. Overall you are either a muslim or just don't know much about the topic
There us a theory that people that followed Arianism in Spain converted to Islam as Islam doesn't acceot the divinity of Jesus while catholics remain catholic.
You say that Castille was a crossroads of cultures, but I don't mean it that I wish reconquista did not happen, I mean that muslims and jews in Spain were quickly forced to convert and abandon their unique traditions, which is pretty sad considering that christians and muslims living together to that day would make iberian cultures even more diverse, somewhat akin to a multicultural ottoman empire, rather than strictly catholic.
If you don't understand, I meant muslim culture under a catholic rule after 1492 and not ebin grossal-andalusiums.
Grand Mufti Misiewicz is WHITE and BASED
didn't Franco have a boner for Andalusian culture and attempt to push it on the rest of Spain during his reign. I'm pretty sure Bullfighting is only an Andalusian thing.
Yeah look how well that worked in the Balkans...
Integration was the best possible option specially when the Ottomans are one of your biggest rivals and the muslims preffer them over your rule
>didn't Franco have a boner for Andalusian culture
He had a boner for tourism money and Andalucian culture was the most exotic by far. He usually preffered Castillian culture and promoted lots of films based around the middle ages and Castille
> and attempt to push it on the rest of Spain during his reign.
Not really
> I'm pretty sure Bullfighting is only an Andalusian thing.
Nope. Bullfughting is a tradition that comes from the Carthaginians that settled mostly on the mediteranean cost.
>Don't you sometimes wish Moors were allowed to retain certain parts of its culture after Reconquista
Nope
But it wasn't it based specifically on the crusade myth?
muslims don't do well under the control of others. The Catholics only began expelling/forcibly converting them when they revolted.
Other way around, the rebellions started after a wave of forced conversions in Granada
>Other way around
If you want to be a revisionist... The muslims in Granada were plotting with the Ottomans since they got annexed. The forced conversions were just a way to solve a huge problem that could destroy the entire country.
>when you're such a real Christian and not a heretic at all that you convert to Islam
>If you want to be a revisionist
Revisionist how? I'm pretty sure the long standing view was that a fanatical cleric went rogue and started imprisoning people left and right in order to induce more conversions, sparking the whole affair just a few years after the fall of the emirate, and a full half century before the Ottomans were ever considered a threat in the Western Mediterranean.
>The muslims in Granada
Source? And even if it was true you can't generalize to say all muslims were complicit in a sinister plot to revolt.
>If you want to be a revisionist
/pol/ detected. Historical revisionism is inherent to historical scholarship, idiot. Just come out and accuse that user of being "liberal" or "sjw" or "kike" so you can spare us all the trouble of arguing with you.
the ottomans were a threat since the get-go and the merchants of the mediterranean knew this.
>you can't generalize to say all muslims were complicit in a sinister plot to revolt.
you never know where people's loyalties lies. it was a precaution really.
Not in 1499, and not especially to Spain on the other side of the Mediterranean, when the more than century long rebellion got started. The Ottomans were one of many reasons for their eventual expulsion from the Iberian peninsula, but the actual rebellions and forced conversions before that had nothing to do with Eastern Mediterranean politics, and everything to do with the policies of the Bishop of Toledo, Cisneros.
Oh yeah the peaceful and tolerant muslims just wanted to have a peaceful life and the catholics just forced them to convert and beat them. Just ignore the 3 rebellions that they organized in an spam of 50 years. They never had any intention to support the Ottomans. They were true patriots
Funny you should meme that, because in 1495 Ferdinand and Isabel entered Granada to cheering crowds with absolutely no notices or hints of rebellion in the region from eyewitness accounts.
>Not in 1499
When the Ottomans were raiding Naples? Who could have seen them as a threat?
>and not especially to Spain on the other side of the Mediterranean
With berber client states pretty close to their borders
>when the more than century long rebellion got started. The Ottomans were one of many reasons for their eventual expulsion from the Iberian peninsula, but the actual rebellions and forced conversions before that had nothing to do with Eastern Mediterranean politics, and everything to do with the policies of the Bishop of Toledo, Cisneros.
Simply false. Putting all the blame on one side while the Ottomans and berberiscs pirates were at its height is pretty retarded. You are probably a goat fucker. I can't believe how someone can be this retarded
>because in 1495 Ferdinand and Isabel entered Granada to cheering crowds with absolutely no notices or hints of rebellion in the region from eyewitness accounts.
And Robespierre recited a poem to Louis XVI and North Koreans """""cried""" for 2 days when their ruler died. What is your point?
>There's a Muslim empire spanning the old Byzantine lands and fighting in the Adriatic
>Better start persecuting our Moorish subjects for over a century because we can predict that they'll conquer Egypt and nearly all of North Africa before it actually happens.
Listen. I'm not "putting all the blame on one side." I'm saying what happened and what anyone who seriously studies this time period knows what happened based on primary sources. Unless you can find me one source that says Cisneros convinced the Catholic monarchs that Granada needed to be forcibly converted to a Christian city and the Alpurajjas Rebellions that sparked off in the same year because of some Ottoman threat, I might actually respect anything you have to say and believe.
But we both know you can't, because all you are is some faggot that can only argue in /int/ memes.
That you should meme less, and read more.
>Listen. I'm not "putting all the blame on one side." I'm saying what happened and what anyone who seriously studies this time period knows what happened based on primary sources.
What happened was that Cisneros was stricter and punished false converts pretty harshly. Then all muslims chimped out
> Unless you can find me one source that says Cisneros convinced the Catholic monarchs that Granada needed to be forcibly converted to a Christian city
They sent Cisneros because Talavera wasn't achieving anything and most of the muslims that converted were just false converts
>and the Alpurajjas Rebellions that sparked off in the same year because of some Ottoman threat, I might actually respect anything you have to say and believe.
The Alpujarras was started because Cisneros was harsher. But Talavera was just a dumbass. The Ottoman invasion was a serious problem back then and the Pope was pushing them to expell all the muslims from the Peninsula.
>But we both know you can't, because all you are is some faggot that can only argue in /int/ memes.
No. It is just pointless to debate with a dumb goat fucker that his main primary source is probably a TV series.
>That you should meme less, and read more.
>Made totally retarded argument
>Hurr hurr you are memeing. Those things that happened uhmmm I will just ignore them and tell you to read more. How about that?
Moron. Stop calling people misinformed when you have clearly just watched a TV series and are trying to look like someone that had any knowledge of what happened in that period
So you went from >the moors started it to >Cisneros did nothing wrong.
Glad we got that cleared up. Now go read a book, son.