Why is despotic empire formed by horseniggers who coudn't even make their own agriculture, didn't have a printing press until the late 19th century, didn't have any literature of note in its entire history(except perhaps rewriting qurans and some mullahs writing worthless hadiths), had a feudal economy until the mid 19th century, had absolutely no centers of higher education(the only colleges in the empire were in Konstantinople, and were created by foreigners) considered a great civilisation.
>inb4 they conquered A horde butchering women and children to force islamisation isn't civilisation.
As a Bulgarian, I wish we were under austrohungary, at least their subjugated peoples were under european civilisation and were in an industrialized nation, not a clusterfuck Islamic gangs, beys and brainwashed slave soldiers.
>As a Bulgarian, I wish we were under austrohungary, at least their subjugated peoples were under european civilisation and were in an industrialized nation, not a clusterfuck Islamic gangs, beys and brainwashed slave soldiers You were already under the fucking Byzantine empire. But then you decided to throw a hissy fit and fight for independance only to later declare war on everyone in the region weakening them and allowing Osman to start expanding Westwards.
Hell, while Constantinople was being conquered by the Ottomans you took the opportunity to secure the Black sea for yourselves instead of sending aid.
Ayden Flores
But I will credit the Bulgarian Momchii, who was the first person to realize the Turk threat and pleaded for an Balkan alliance against the Ottomans, but instead the Bulgarians, Byzantine and Serbs were just going for eachother throats in the civil war.
Dylan Bailey
>You were already under the fucking Byzantine empire. That also fucked us over by trying to assimilate us. And that was more than 150 years before Ottomans had a presence in the Balkans.
If only the 2nd Bulgarian Empire hadn't fractured,...
Can we agree that the balkans should never have been touched by Islam or Catholicism?
It was the Byzantines who started using ottoman mercenaries, which later rebelled and fucked the region over.
Nathaniel Perry
But that's not . . .
>As a Bulgarian Ah, I see.
Lincoln Garcia
>As a Bulgarian,
Ah alright, just a butthurt Balkanshit thread, move along.
Colton Hughes
>That also fucked us over by trying to assimilate us. Good. It's not like Bulgarian culture is in any way valuable anyway.
Adam Reyes
>as a Bulgarian
really makes you think...
Nathaniel Torres
>As a Bulgarian A what?
Asher Bennett
>The Ottoman empire was objectively shit >A bunch of roaches spam ad hominems due insecurity about their shit tier empire
Jace Russell
>Insecurity So . . . this . . . is the power . . . of Bulgarian projection.
Gavin Carter
Who is this traveller from an antique land?
Nicholas Martin
Completely agree. Pic related. Try to find the old border between Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman empire. Also try to find the 1878 border between them and Serbia.
Ethan Diaz
>Serbia has been independent for over a century >It's the Turk's fault we're a shithole
Classic Balkanshits I also love how you ignore how Serbia was literally decimated in WW1, hence the low population.
Oliver Allen
No, these are literacy rates. And Serbia's been independent for little over 30 years when WW1 happened. The point are territories that were under the Ottomans longer, look at Bosnia and Kosovo. I'm a Slovene.
Nathan Bell
It wasn't. Serbia revolted from the Ottoman Empire in 1804 and won in 1817.
>I'm a [balkanshit] I know.
Ian Ortiz
It was under Turkish administration until like 1865 (circa), and gained complete independence in 1878 alongside Romania.
Michael Adams
It was under autonomous administration, it was however occupied by Turkish forces and didn't have a separate foreign policy to the Ottoman Empire.
Justin Howard
Ottomans had printing press durin the tulip period which is still late but still. Also there is a reason austrohungary imploded you faggot.
Nicholas Robinson
How the fuck are the Ottomans at fault for low literacy in Yugoslavia? The Ottomans used neither the latin nor the cyrillic fonts, so why should they have taught the populace to read and write them? In contrast, the Austro-Hungarians benefitted from Slovenians and Croats being literate in latin, since both used the same writing system.
Austin Jenkins
Also christian millets had autonomy in how they arranged schooling for their people.
Xavier Martin
>arguing on the merit of empires by using "objectively" and knowledge gained from memes This board is a shithole
Julian Scott
Then you're no better than roaches...
>value Just because your burgershit education didn't bother to mention it doesn't make something less valuable.
Robert Myers
Read a book, turklet. You have more to be proud of in your Ottoman heritage, than in your bulgarian one.
Kayden Reed
Show me single ottoman printed book(quran or other durkascripture doesn't count)
Jayden Robinson
You are under the false impression that printed books are inherently superior to handwritten ones. The Ottoman empire did in fact have printing houses, but only Jews and Armenians used them. The Turks did not like books that were printed in the printing houses, but rather preferred hand-written ones. The published books lacked the art and grace of hand-written books. Ottoman intellectuals, who were keen on aesthetics, enjoyed books written with elegant handwriting and whose ink shined, along with edges that were ornamented with golden gilt and covers that were made with care. Reading books was not only a necessity, but also a pleasure. Besides, there were many calligraphy artists who copied plenty of books rapidly. All these people could be out of a job. On top of that, those who were keen on books belonged to a certain class, just as today.
Wyatt Hall
You know, just because your education system is full of nationalist WE WUZery doesn't make it true.
The entirety Bulgarian """history""" is put to shame by a single western meme-country like Belgium or Ireland. Had the entire place been levelled to the ground by the Byzantines or the Ottomans the world would be no worse off to do without Bulgaria.
Now this is not a bad thing in itself, there's plenty of irrelevant shitholes in the world. The problem is Balkanshits have convinced themselves that were it not for the big bad Ottoman Empire they would be western and relevant.
They wouldn't, their own indigenous culture is just as backwards and unremarkable as the Ottoman's if not more so. Rather than constantly blaming all their shortcomings on the Turk like niggers maybe they should fess up to the fact that their history and culture is, in reality, nothing to be proud of.
Lincoln Evans
>Had the entire place been levelled to the ground by the Byzantines or the Ottomans the world would be no worse off to do without Bulgaria.
Spread Christianity to Moravia, created and spread the Cyrillic alphabet, lifted the Arabian siege of Constantinople. Not even butterfly effect, tangible major events that shaped history.
Alexander Rogers
Excuse me, you said "major events" but appear to have listed utter trivialities
Parker Bailey
You are making a fool of yourself in an attempt to win an internet argument. Reconsider your values. I won't respond further.
Wyatt Lewis
Yeah, after the Greeks already introduced you to those things to begin with. Not to mention that's no more of an accomplishment than Turks boasting of spreading Islam and Arabic script to Europe.
> lifted the Arabian siege of Constantinople. In between trying to take it themselves.
Adrian Gomez
I'm not , I just agree with him. If Bulgaria disappeared overnight, nobody would notice.
Jackson Bailey
Greater then Bulgaria ever was or will be
Nolan Hall
Absolutely disgusting.
Hunter Anderson
name me Turkish inventions. the only two I know about are cigaretes and yogurt
Austin Myers
Adding to this, Ottomans had higher literacy rate than European contemporaries before printing press became widespread because they had big clergy that translated and written books.
Ian White
What do you expect? It's a shithole with 80 million people but only 2 (two) nobel prize laureates.
Alexander Morgan
the Nobel price do give some biash from politics so I still want to give them a chance.
Jack Williams
That's more than enough, desu
Justin Diaz
>cigarettes and yogurt Those are major and widely relevant ones, though, unlike many of the padding inventions of other peoples. They also brought coffee and dessert to Europe, again two relevant and still important things. And the military band, not relevant today, but very relevant in the past. The whole military parade and presentation was a turkish invention brought to Europe.
They also have a bunch of unique string instruments and dishes that are less important, and types of swords, bows, etc.
Leo Reed
>As a Bulgarian
kekstra
Adrian Bell
When will the Sultan make a move to reclaim Thrace?
Jonathan Brown
>Introduced How has Ireland been more relevant? Does the British Isles use a Gaelic scripts and speak gaelic dialects? Did Irish stop a foreign invasion into the British Isles? Was english influenced by Gaelic, was there a gaelic empire?
Anyway instead of using Bulgaria as an ad hominem, prove to me that Turks were as civilized as europeans.
Lucas Lewis
> Having your own country instead of being genocided, forced into serfdom, and being subject to consntant islamic pogroms and jannisery kidnappings until the late 19th century is kinda necessary for the prosperity of your culture.
>They wouldn't, their own indigenous culture is just as backwards and unremarkable as the Ottoman's if not more so If you don't know what you're talking about, then don't.
Luis Stewart
Brought, not invented. Yoghurt is not an invention BTW, it has been used by many different culture before there were turks.
Adrian Powell
If there were printing houses, then why the fuck would balkan intellectuals have to go to Austria or Russia to print their books?
Jose Hughes
as that guy said, only jews and armenians had their own presses
Logan Roberts
Popularizing something only used by very, very few people very far away, to the center of the civilized world, is akin to inventing it. You are only arbitrarily choosing to reward the first innovator and ignore everyone who followed and perfected a thing, and influenced its spread.
Ian Johnson
Jews and Armenians didn't own them iirc, they just used them. Those still had to be owned by muslims, even if they were just token muslims for the sake of owning it. Keep in mind pre-reformation Turkey used the arabic script, as well. This is notoriously hard for a printing press to work with.
Nathan King
Kek.
Thomas Moore
i'm just dropping by to leave this astute observation by a fellow /balk/anlar here
Jaxson Bell
>can't prove him wrong so ill use ad hominem to win the argument
everything he said is 100% correct
Thomas Turner
Protip: its not IQ these measure, its another point scoring system, aggregating a few things in education. Read the survey that the author used to make the map to find out for yourself.
Kayden Edwards
>first printed book in turkish: Vankulu, year: 1727 >first printed book in bulgarian: Abagar, year: 1651
why are turks so useless? an enslaved people were more literate then the so called great empire
Ian Fisher
>Hell, while Constantinople was being conquered by the Ottomans you took the opportunity to secure the Black sea for yourselves instead of sending aid.
Nigger Bulgaria fell before Constantinople. And while all of Eastern Europe came to the aid of Bulgaria during the Crusade of Varna, the Eastern Roman Empire was trading with the Ottomans, and didn't engage them.
Aiden Roberts
>pieces needed to print in bulgarian ~ 100 >pieces needed to print in ottoman arabic > 9001
Also see
Aiden Moore
yes yes, amazon tribes can fly rocket ships if they wanted, they just prefer to live in dung huts
Nathaniel Adams
No, you turkish turk, its just simply easier to print in bulgarian than it is in the arabic script ottomans used. You need less, much much less pieces.
If bulgarians had to used arabic to print, they'd still be trying to figure it out.
Hudson Reed
>As a Bulgarian filthy backstabbing turkgypsy
Jaxon Parker
that's because bulgaria was part of a superior civilization that created technology to accommodate it's own needs
turks were stuck in the middle ages with the rest of islam
Benjamin Jones
The printing press was in fact not invented by bulgarians. Bulgaria didn't exist when the printing press was created, and the people who we historically call bulgarians were ottoman citizens and subjects of the sultan.
Cameron Wilson
and yet still bulgarians printed books before turks
Xavier Diaz
Because its easier to print in cyrillic compared to arabic. You are arguing in circles.
Hunter Roberts
And bulgarians used cyrillic because they were part of a superior civilization. Turks were stuck in the middle ages(most bulgarians were stuck too, because they were part of this backward barbaric empire)
James Parker
quit promoting your shithole of a country on this board you gypsies
Owen Ward
are you some kind of turk-admirer?
Austin Wood
The world would be a better place if the Ottomans retained control of the Balkans.
Nothing good comes out of that shithole
Aaron Bailey
Except, you know, democracy, republics, philosophy, and western civilization?
Luke Garcia
>all these turk lovers and roaches
god this board is trash
Nolan Sanchez
Roach love is fuelled by eternal Balkan asspain.
Keep it coming
Xavier Perry
more like Balkanposting is terrible and defending the Turks is the best way to trigger you Balkanshits
Josiah King
>And bulgarians used cyrillic because they were part of a superior civilization.
balkanshits actually believe this
James Carter
Linear algebra
Jeremiah White
Why are people still posting in a thread made by a butthurt balkanigger?
John Peterson
The fuck is this and why is Macedonia green? Good or bad?
Anthony Brown
meh, it's more of the fact that roaches are the only ones who can stop the turd threat
Ethan Bailey
Honestly it probably was a shithole at some point but imagine how much of a shithole bulgaria must've been to be conquered by literal roaches?
Christian Nguyen
Why did they not conquer the Adriatic coast?
Oliver Robinson
fuck off with the racism
Aiden Richardson
Its green because the albanian "minority" is allowed into the same schools, at the same rates, as the ethnic macedonians. I am explaining why countries in the east have low scores, two of the parameters for this study (which measures score, not IQ) are gender equality and ethnic equality, based on how many people enter and graduate school from the different genders and minorities.
Carter Taylor
>a great civilisation Never. They were considered a great power, which for much of their life they were, but no one ever looked to emulate the Turk.
Jacob Myers
>country is a shithole because it got taken over by an endless horde rlly made me think
Juan Edwards
France ad Britain had high opinion of the Turk between 15th and 17th century. There was much use for it to fight the Germanics and Russia, and there was much state propaganda to raise public opinion of Turks. Coffee and sweets helped.
It wasn't really until Gladstone that Britain got cured of its pro-Ottoman views.
Connor Myers
>endless hordes
During the battle of Varna, which was when it was decided that Bulgaria is now Ottoman clay, the armies were well matched. Some sources even say that the European-Bulgarian army had more dudes than the Turkish-Serbian one.
Brandon Ross
Slovenia isn't Balkan by any stretch of imagination.
They could just teach them to write Serbo-Croatian using arabic script, you knoe?
Kevin Phillips
Yeah I know the video, I'm also not that Slovenian guy. Anyway, to be culturally/historically Balkan a country has to be ex-Ottoman, Orthodox and poor. Slovenia is none of those.
Easton Sanchez
Since when does Veeky Forums hate the Balkan countries so much? Did /int/ and /pol/ invade?
Thomas Lopez
It's just Turks.
Isaiah Hernandez
The term "balkan" is retarded, all of those labels are retarded and we should only use them in context. The cultural cluster in the area is different to the economic cluster in the area, for example.
Anyways, based on what a peninsula is, this is the Balkan Peninsula, without the political border fixing to make things nicer to understand. In the very raw, basic, no strings attached definition, some of Slovenia is in the Balkan Peninsula, because some of Slovenia is in the land that sticks into the seas surrounding on three sides.
Again, when I talk about Balkan, I just mean Yugoslavia and Bulgaria, and I don't like the term at all, but if I had to I can make a case for Slovenia being Balkan geographically, culturally, and historically, based on slav linguistic group, based on ex-Yugo, based on what a peninsula is.
Camden Kelly
You're reffering to the battle of Nicopolis and I'm not really sure about the size of the armies, there are a lot of conflicting accounts on the number of combatants
Jonathan Baker
Balkans don't record their history, don't have enlightenment, and are always on the wrong side of history.
Robert Howard
Slavs have nothing to do with it, there's several Balkan countries that aren't Slav, such as Greece, Albania, Romania or even Turkey itself (partially).
Isaac Peterson
>don't have enlightenment wtf I love Balkans now
Samuel Rodriguez
As I said, I don't consider Greece to be a "Balkan" country in the cultural or economic sense of the word, which is how its mostly used. It is in the geographic area, and thats that. Slovenia is more Balkan than Greece is, when you consider the stereotype of what Balkan has come to mean.
Thomas Baker
>cultural Greece is the most culturally Balkan country that exists, other than perhaps Bulgaria.