Imagine this situation
you have two reasonably armored samurai, both are stuck with their katanas, so no polearms or clubs, how do they proceed to take each other down? knights had half swording, but I doubt you can do anything of the sort with a katana, do you just go for an opening in the armor?
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Exchange sword blows until you can get a hold of them and use jujutsu to take them down and finish them. Much in the same way knights had a wrestling system for taking down other knights.
>Jujutsu first began during the Sengoku period of the Muromachi period combining various Japanesemartial artswhich were used on the battlefield for close combat in situations where weapons were ineffective. In contrast to the neighbouring nations ofChinaandOkinawawhose martial arts were centered aroundstrikingtechniques,Japanesehand-to-hand combat forms focused heavily uponthrowing, immobilizing,joint locksandchokingas striking techniques were ineffective towards someone wearing armor on the battlefield. The original forms of jujutsu such asTakenouchi-ryūalso extensively taught parrying and counterattacking long weapons such as swords or spears via a dagger or other small weapon.
>In the early 17th century during theEdo period, jujutsu would continue to evolve due to the strict laws which were imposed by theTokugawa shogunateto reduce war as influenced by the Chinese social philosophy ofNeo-Confucianismwhich was obtained duringHideyoshi's invasions of Koreaand spread throughout Japan via scholars such asFujiwara Seika.[5]During this new ideology weapons and armor became unused decorative items, so hand-to-hand combat flourished as a form of self-defense and new techniques were created to adapt to the changing situation of unarmored opponents.
I have no idea about Japanese swordplay but I'd imagine they'd go for typical weak spots like the neck or beneath the arm
Plus katanas are pretty heavy as far as swords go so even if your strike hits the opponent's armor it might knock them around a bit
* because the copy and paste fucked up. Fucking phone posting.
>Jujutsu first began during the Sengoku period of the Muromachi period combining various Japanese martial arts which were used on the battlefield for close combat in situations where weapons were ineffective. In contrast to the neighbouring nations of China and Okinawa whose martial arts were centered around striking techniques, Japanese hand-to-hand combat forms focused heavily upon throwing, immobilizing, joint locks and choking as striking techniques were ineffective towards someone wearing armor on the battlefield. The original forms of jujutsu such as Takenouchi-ryūalso extensively taught parrying and counterattacking long weapons such as swords or spears via a dagger or other small weapon.
>In the early 17th century during the Edo period, jujutsu would continue to evolve due to the strict laws which were imposed by the Tokugawa shogunate to reduce war as influenced by the Chinese social philosophy ofNeo-Confucianism which was obtained during Hideyoshi's invasions of Korea and spread throughout Japan via scholars such as Fujiwara Seika.[5] During this new ideology weapons and armor became unused decorative items, so hand-to-hand combat flourished as a form of self-defense and new techniques were created to adapt to the changing situation of unarmored opponents.
They make pleasantries until one subtly offends the other so he can cut him down in half a second from the draw.
Sit down for tea.
Begin to meditate.
Whosoever breaks the meditation pose first must commit seppuku.
The normal human-sized European knight punches the 4'8 Nip so hard in the jaw with his plate gauntlets that the impact can be heard across the globe.
knock the other guy over and kick his sword away.
In war, Samurai typically used nagintas (their version of the polearm), bows, were lance cavalry or guns
In a duel such as this, the Samurai often didnt wear armour but most duels weren't to the death.
The OP already established this was a theoretical scenario without polearms and with both combatants wearing armor and having a sword.
I'm going to assume its for understanding of japanese hand fighting methods but at least read the post m8.
Samurai armor has a lot of very large weakspots, it's not like European armor.
They'd just stab each other in the face and die, the masks weren't generally worn in combat.
If they were wearing the masks, they'd cut each other's upper arms, armpits, hands, and eyes, then see who bleeds to death first.
Or one of them might just hit the other in the head really fucking hard and break their neck.
OP posted
>you have two reasonably armored samurai
The primary slash is in the unsheathing; if that didn't deliver a fatal blow, they would proceed to battle with powerful - usually diagonal - cutting motions. Sometimes, the sheathe would be used as a secondary weapon.
Read the Book of Five Rings.
The book of five rings doesnt even discuss iaijutsu
There are (usually) certain gaps in Japanese armor such as the armpit, or the inner thigh that a skilled swordsman can target.
Trying to bash the other guy with a katana was never a popular strategy, though they did do this with pull arms because they could deliver enough power to break bones or knock someone out.
By European armor, do you mean full plate? That wasn't widely used until the late middle ages, and by then armor was becoming heavily outdated.
And when you stay "stab each other in the face" that means to me that you have very little idea of warfare or armor.
So, samurai dueling was a vidya boss fight where two samurai threw attack combos at each other until someone's head was chopped off?
Though Mushashi advances Nitōjutsu, iajutsu is implied.
I didn't say they would go swinging at each other nonsensically, did I? Of course they would be trying to exploit gaps in armor.
With their guns
Naginata are girl's weapons. You mean yari.
The video demonstrates where the gaps are (usually) in japanese armor.
And yes, just like in most European weapon arts Japanese arts involved pattern practice.
naginata only became a woman's weapon in the edo era. Early naginata were heavy war weapons up to nine feet long, with thick blades that could smash steel helms or cut through a horses leg.
Yari only became popular when massed formations became the norm and there was less room to swing massive weapons.
>The primary slash is in the unsheathing
Thats bullshit. Samurai did not go into a fight with the sword sheathed. When practicing drawing and striking in one smooth motion, samurai were preparing to defend against surprise attacks. You can't seriously think they went into a fight with their swords sheathed just so they could do some hollywood BS.
Underrated
>what is iaijutsu
On the battlefield it may be unlikely, but in this scenario OP specifically mentions two samurai with only their swords.
Stop making shit up. When people talk about samurai, they mean Sengoku or Edo period, not fucking Genpei war period.
Iaijutsu was about defending against surprise attacks. Why would you go into a duel with your weapon down?
>When people talk about samurai, they mean Sengoku or Edo period
They do?
>Genpei war period.
The naginata became less popular but it was still the perfered weapons of some warriors even up to sekigahara and Osaka.
occasionally mass formations would be armed with nagimaki or naginata as well, though as the period progressed this became more rare. Yari were cheaper, easier to manufacture and tended tow work better in tight formations
And also about surprise attacking. Do you seriously think two fighters would charge at each-other like animals?
OP is clearly describing a duel. Both fighters are clearly aware a fight is imminent.
/thread
Everything after this is nonsense
Yeah? Iajutsu is a starting technique.
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Samurai armor has lots of unprotected areas and also the famed mask was rarely ever used in combat, meaning the face was completely open.
To note, thrusting with a rigid sword deals hefty blunt impact, you can deliver serious blunt trauma with sword thrusts, which is why 99% of sidearm evidence in the late medieval period is swords instead of maces or warhammers.
>They do?
>>katana
>not fucking tachi
What do you think shithead?
>The naginata became less popular but it was still the perfered weapons of some warriors even up to sekigahara and Osaka.
In other words, not fucking typical.
Then why didn't Europeans do something similar? I mean, if its so great, why didn't Europeans come up with the Draw-and-slash-at-the-same-time technique? Could it be that it's fucking stupid to begin a duel without a guard up?
>Jujutsu
Keep in mind that what we know today as jujutsu, aikido, judo etc. are quite recent formations of the martial arts, the ones practiced centuries before were quite simplistic wrestling focused styles, not unlike what Europeans practiced.
> and by then armor was becoming heavily outdated.
lol no, plate armor was not being unfazed until the late 16th century.
The same reason cowboys quick draw instead of just keeping their gun out and taking steady aim.
Because it's fucking rad.
We are not talking about what Europeans did, and it is retarded to compare them because their strategies and equipment developed independently from one another.
I'm not expert, but I can say that European swords didn't have an emphasis on the slash so their unsheathing motion did not naturally capitalize on an opening attack. It is nonsensical to say "this other part of the world didn't do it, so it is useless".
>begin a duel without a guard up
The idea is that the practitioner is already guarding, though appears to be at a disadvantage.
The average person doesn't know the difference between a katana and a tachi. There is absolutely no reason to confine the discussion to post 1460 Japan when the samurai existed for hundreds of years prior.
>In other words, not fucking typical.
No, but it was used.
>The same reason cowboys quick draw instead of just keeping their gun out and taking steady aim.
But they don't. The whole "quick draw at high noon" thing is a myth; never happened.
>The idea is that the practitioner is already guarding, though appears to be at a disadvantage.
He appears to be at a disadvantage because he IS.
Don't be a retard, man.
The guy you posted is not well respected in classical japanese sword circles.
The fact is that 9/10 the Japanese would begin the fight with the sword out if he knew what was coming. iaijutsu was usually a situational technique for asymmetrical fights
Literally said the same thing in the post.
Jujutsu is an amalgamation of several different martial arts from around the Sengoku period that were developed for the exact reason OP described and is different than the modern iteration of jujutsu.
When you're up against an armored and armed opponent and you don't have your main weapon. What's been described here is fucking retarded. No samurai didn't engage in ebin one on one duels on the battlefield, accurately slashing at the armpits and face.
Much like Knights in Europe, if you were in that situation and didn't have a weapon you could get through the armor then you would wrestle them down using throws, locks, and chokes until you could get an advantageous position and stab or slash a weak point.
It developed almost the exact same way in Europe around the same time.
>>In war, Samurai typically used nagintas (their version of the polearm), bows, were lance cavalry or guns
hmm really makes you think fagget
>The average person doesn't know the difference between a katana and a tachi.
No shit, because the average person thinks of Sengoku/Edo period samurai and shit like bushido, dueling, 5 rings, samurai movies, etc.
Either way, it's baffling how you would claim naginata were common and place them above bows, or yari. Even during your supposed naginata glory years, the bow was the more common arm of choice for samurai.
Samurai certainly did train to attack the gaps in the armor with the sword, as well as grapple. There are dozens of surviving styles that taught this, including armored grappling styles
>>In war, Samurai typically used nagintas (their version of the polearm), bows, were lance cavalry or guns
This wasn't me. Naginata were more popular in the early days, records of battle wounds show spears were hardly used before the Onin War.
I would never argue that the naginata was more common than the yumi, there is no period of Japanese warfare where melee wounds surpassed projectile wounds in number.
>No shit, because the average person thinks of Sengoku/Edo period samurai and shit like bushido, dueling, 5 rings, samurai movies, etc.
Have you ever stopped to think this is a misconception we should be correcting in a history discussion?