Is /pol/ right about the holocaust? I'm an idiot so I don't pretend to know anything...

m8 there are scholars whose whole life is dedicated to studying the holocaust, there is mountains of evidence. We have Nazi documents, we have testimony of survivors, we have the testimony of the guards, we have the film footage of recently liberated camps, we have the testimony of allied agents who infiltrated Auschwitz then escaped to report on it.

It's also not illegal to deny it in Europe. It's illeagal in some countries, usually ones grappling with their stained history of participation in it.

All making it illegal does is lend credibility to it.

Cite the laws and statutes then.

>every single one of /pol/'s talking points has been debunked here

This isn't just /pol/ though. People have been rebelling against the holocaust history for like 30 years. Plus, the fact that you think the holocaust is "the worst genocide ever" just goes to show how little you really know about history. The holocaust is just one of many incidents of organized mass murder of innocent people. And it's not even the biggest. 20 million Russians were killed by the Soviet government during the same time period. And nobody even knows about that, or cares. It's the holocaust in particular that gets special attention, and that is forbidden from being questioned.

>>one of the most murderous ideologies in history
>>not criminalizing apologies for it
then why is being a communist legal?

Just like making rape and murder illegal lends credibility to them?

What kind of cuck makes free speech illegal? If the holocaust is as overtly true as you state, then there is no reason to fear outliers denouncing reality. IF the opposite is true however, then perhaps you have something to fear and making free speech illegal is your only out.

Fun fact: You can't actually get your hands on holocaust documentation without express written permission from several entities and even then you're likely to get a copy. On top of this, there's so much fabricated documentation floating around (according to the fabricators) who knows WHAT is real and what is fabricated.

Check the map.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

I agree that it should be, but there are more leftists in influential positions than Nazis.

Holodomor was a hoax. Didn't happen.

>asked for the laws a statutes
>gives a Wikipedia page

I thought Wikipedia was run by Jews and Communists?

You are whining, not arguing your point on the Holocaust being fake.

>I thought Wikipedia was run by Jews and Communists?
Not an argument. Either way, the page lists the precise laws and statutes for each country. Keep shucking and jiving though.

Those aren't ideas they're actions.

>Fun fact: You can't actually get your hands on holocaust documentation without express written permission from several entities and even then you're likely to get a copy. On top of this, there's so much fabricated documentation floating around (according to the fabricators) who knows WHAT is real and what is fabricated.
>Citation desperately needed

ushmm.org/research/research-in-collections/search-the-collections/bibliography/primary-sources

>you need permission to handle original documents

Standard archive procedure is part of the conspiracy now?

ok
what about the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution?
and the Khmer Rouge?
and I'm sure everyone in the GULAG were thieves and murders too of course

>Wikipedia is fine when it's backing up stormfaggotry
>Wikipedia is the tool of Jewish snakes for everything else
>not an argument

Wew lad

>there is mountains of evidence
>posts shoes

Prisoners at the camps had their clothes and possessions taken from them, and they were given uniforms. So why wouldn't there be a giant pile of shoes somewhere? The concentration camps in the US did the same stuff. That's not proof that 6 million people were killed in human gas chambers. You see what I'm saying?

>Eyewitness testimony
Notoriously unreliable as a rule of thumb, and especially so surrounding the holocaust. I'm not going to post /pol/ jpgs here, but even the slightest effort to dig into the eyewitness testimony reveals a completely ludicrous collection of transparently fabricated horror stories that are often either impossible, or that contradict one another, and often both. For example, all the claims surrounding human skin lampshades and human soap factories have recently been exposed as falsifications. What else about the holocaust isn't really true?

>film footage
There is film footage showing that there were concentration camps, like in the US. And there is film footage showing that there was a typhus epidemic that broke out in the camps. There is absolutely no film showing that 6,000,000 jews were murdered in human gas chambers by zyklon b. And furthermore, there's no physical evidence for it, either. Only eyewitness testimony and speculative patchwork of pedigreed experts. Oh, and if you're an expert who goes against the legally accepted holocaust narrative? You're fined to death, attacked and slandered by the media all over the world, and thrown into prison.

>first 5 sources are edited
Bravo.

Ordinarily, you only need to book an appointment with an archive and let them know the document you wish to see. You don't need to go through four or five separate entities.

I never made either claim. I only made the claim that holocaust denial is illegal in most European countries which you denied and were summarily proven wrong. You have no argument. Stop posting.

It's amusing the change from how OP started this thread to how his posts are after being challenged.

Almost as if he wasn't really asking a question, but actually just wanted to spread his demented /pol/ propaganda in an innocuous way.

Not him but I believe the law is something like "it's illegal to deny the findings of the Nuremberg Trials." which includes the holocaust.

Free speech is a meme and something being overtly wrong has never stopped it from being popular and even becoming a political force, e.g. communism, because the mob doesn't care.

>being overtly wrong has never stopped it from being popular and even becoming a political force
Such as the holocaust being true?

Maybe if you are looking up the records of your great uncles goat farm at your local town library. (Inter)nationally important archives and documents require more scrutiny than just casual interest.

>doesn't actually post the laws but what a den of leftists and Jewish vipers say the laws say

Wew lad

You didn't argue either. You just posted a literal 500 page document (that you certainly haven't read), and said "everything that disagrees with this is wrong." At least give me some examples to start with. I've only watched some documentaries about it, (some of which were made by jews, I hasten to add)

You can get into the Vatican archive for specific documents, we're talking 1000+ year old manuscripts simply by making an appointment with the Vatican for the document you wish to see. They approve it themselves. There's no other event where documents are so highly protected. Why? Because there are enough fabricated documents that the truth would come out.

Stop posting.

>expecting someone on Veeky Forums to be a legal expert

It's funny how high the standards get when these controversial threads get started lol. Everybody suddenly needs to be a harvard educated multi millionaire to even have the right to have an opinion

Because you provided no points, you dolt. You just said "watch this youtube documentary."

It's almost like reading "I'm not a stormnigger, but..." is an absolute guarantee that the poster is, in fact, a massive stormnigger. They obviously are trying to pretend to be normal people just asking questions, but they're so easily triggered that the mask drops almost instantly.

>And furthermore, there's no physical evidence for it, either.

Actually yes, there is physical and documental evidence for it.

The human hair in Auschwitz has Zyklon B traces in it. The Birkenau SS Building Office has written specs on five crematoria able to burn thousands of bodies a day. Ground photographs of open burning pits with plenty of bodies have been taken at Auschwitz, as well as undressing women near Krema V.

Your post is literally "It wasn't real in my mind".

>too many words reeeeeee

Millenials everyone.

>demented propaganda

What really ticks me off about anti-holocaust people is how sanctimonious you lot get that someone might dare even consider the other side. That's what's turned me off of the holocaust more than anything, really. It's like questioning God in the most stuck up, shitty mormon church that you can imagine. Everyone pretends to be your friend, until they realize you're not going to just come to their side. And then all the passive aggressive insults come out of the woodworks.

You should watch David Cole before making up your mind and looking down on other people. I get the feeling you haven't really given any effort to hearing the conspiracy theory side of the controversy.

>le Vatican archives

For their open collection maybe. There will be many thousands of documents that are inaccessible without permission and credentials. Just like every other archive.

>not denying that you haven't read it either

Hmmm. Really gets the gears cranking

>actually posting the text of a law or statute instead of Wikipedia is expecting people to be a legal expert

Well FUCK. I kind of had assumed that history buffs had already seen it, you know? It's seems like it'd be kind of famous.

>jewish kid makes convincing documentary about there being no gas chambers in the holocaust
>has to change his name and go into hiding for 30 years

If you people know so much about the holocaust, you'd think you would already be familiar with this documentary in particular. I'm looking for opinions from people who actually know things, not from elitist pricks who think "reeee everbody who denies the holocaust is satan"

Getting acess to Holocaust documentation is the easiest thing in the world, holy shit. Much of it is on the Internet already and the rest you can freely photograph at placea like the Auschwitz museum.

>Much of it is on the Internet already and the rest you can freely photograph at placea like the Auschwitz museum.
>I don't know anything for sure but I know that the culturally accepted narrative cannot be wrong because experts and authority figures support it

reeeeeee this is not an argument. In the documentary I watched, David Cole literally GOES to a holocaust museum and debunks alot of their displays, and talks to the experts there, and catches them contradicting themselves and stuff.

Yes.

Which points of David Cole's documentary do you feel are valid?

I think the most compelling evidence is that the people who were tried for the holocaust in the Nuremberg trails never denied it. They never came out and said, "this is all false, this never happened, there never were any gas chambers".

>low level museum staff not being that good at history is proof of a massive conspiracy

Oh, it's THIS thread again...

>low level museum staff

Nope. Making opinions without actually seeing evidence again, I see...

They also stuck by it to their last breaths too. You'd think they'd have been screaming "It's all a lie! They made me say it! It's all false! I'm innocent!" all the way to gallows. But nope, they stuck with it right to the end.

>in before some shit like "Missed agents shot all the nazis on the spot after capturing them. The people on trial and being hanged at Nuremburg are all just Jewish actors wearing prosthetics" or similar.

You mean the curator? The one who openly tells them that it's a reconstruction?

The question I always have about this is who /pol/ thinks orchestrated the conspiracy.

The Jews definitely took advantage of it after the fact to form Isreal, but I dont see how they would be able to manipulate the Germans as it was happening considering the Nazi's opposition to them is well recorded.

Probably, but you'd think they would have denied it with all their hearts in some form or another whether it was true or not, considering that the allies were certainly going to execute them no matter what they actually did or said.

>who /pol/ thinks orchestrated the conspiracy
The allied powers, primarily the Soviets and the UK with the U.S. coming along later.

Khmer Rouge was literally CIA backed. (Not socialist)

Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution are heavily exaggerated, and mostly due to environmental calamities and some errors, yes. But capitalist states commit not just errors, but major war crimes and crimes againat humanity of a premeditated nature and dwarfing any so called "crimes of communism" in total death toll over the years to increase the profit-making interests of the capitalist ruling class.

Gulags had nowhere near the "millions" of prisoners that capitalist and fascist-propagandists claim.

And, in fact, gulags were much more humane than capitalist prison systems, certainly way more than the U.S. especially.

If there were really millions of Soviets starving in gulag, why did not anybody see a mass exodus of these supposed "millions of Gulag suffering prisoners" after the traitor US-backed Yeltsin clique finished off the Soviet Union with the coup after the perestroika?

Hmmm....

espressostalinist.com/the-real-stalin-series/gulag/

Start your own thread bro, only one denialist per time

>and mostly due to environmental calamities and some errors
>some errors

Learn yourself, Burger.
quora.com/How-did-Mao-manage-to-kill-78-million-people/answer/Godfree-Roberts

If they had enough influence to make the Germans to build the camps, why can't we see this imbedded influence in other areas? Ir they were that close to the major decision makers why not cut the head off the Axis war effort?

What would the Allies gain from the Holocaust? Facism was already strongly opposed in their countries so they wouldn't need a genocide for propaganda purposes.

>78 million deaths is some error
A communist apologist about other incidents does not excuse Mao of his own "some errors." Jesus, even the Chinese don't deny that the Great Leap Forward was fucked up.

>What would the Allies gain from the Holocaust?

Powerful jews in USA and UK had a fuck ton to gain. They actually got Israel for it, and still get paid billions of Euro per year by Germany in apology money.

Allies get social narrative to demonize the badguys, and to hide the original economic motive of the war. The explosive success and prosperity of German fascism presented an economic threat to the previously UK dominated Europe. They would, in tolerating Germany's rise to power, have to accept a bipolar Europe.

the holocaust conveniently created an excuse for their own war crimes.

>The explosive success and prosperity of German fascism

Reminder that neckbeards and sand niggers that to try deny basic history all resort to the same "arguments"

1.) Circumstantial nonsense. "A newspaper article in 1929 made a reference to 6 million Jews". This doesn't prove anything, but their argument is so weak to them they think it's the holy grail.

2.) Falsified claims/lies. "Zyklon-B isn't deadly to humans", "They never found any mass graves", etc. Things that are simply false, but are true to them because of feels or because they're so gullible they'll believe anything they see as long as it's from some conspiracy blog.

3.) Poorly-made MS paint pics that make a bunch of circumstantial claims then connects them together. For instance, a German general mentions a number in 1943 inconsistent with x study done in 1953. Clearly the numbers are false then! The concept of empirical evidence doesn't exist to these people, so they think this actually proves something.

4.) Stupidity arguments derived from low IQ's. For instance, the claim given in this thread that since a lot of people died and a death camp wasn't that large an area, they couldn't have been buried there, the furnaces didn't burn hot enough to dispose of bodies, etc... It's arguing from ignorance/stupidity, simply because they're so uninformed that it makes sense to them. "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams".

5.) Simple denial. This is an important one. While this poorly made MS paint jpeg with quotes from the Talmud and Ayatollah Khomeini is the gospel truth, all these endless studies are false propaganda. All the memoirs and records are forged. All the eye witness accounts are lies. This is the key part of their argument, to simply deny all contrary evidence and prop up your own weak arguments as a counter.

This is why /pol/beards are a cancer, not because they're doing anything harmful (nobody takes holocaust denial seriously unless you live in Sudan or Afghanistan), but because they promote anti-intellectualism and irrational thought processes.

If so, how did they actually set it up?

And Facism was already hated before the war began. You can clearly see it in public reactions to the Spanish Civil War.

>1.) Circumstantial nonsense. "A newspaper article in 1929 made a reference to 6 million Jews". This doesn't prove anything, but their argument is so weak to them they think it's the holy grail.

Wasn't it like 100 newspapers and other stuff from pre WWII?

War crimes like?

The point is that 78 million dead number is not true.
It's Fake News.

monthlyreview.org/commentary/did-mao-really-kill-millions-in-the-great-leap-forward/

millions of civilians bombed to death?

That was in retaliation for the London Blitz.

In Palestine? Nigga what?

Nothing the Axis hadn't already done to the Allies.

>it's millions now

Kek

Now that's a rubbish statistic.

doesn't change the fact that intentionally targetting civilians is a war crime.

>Joseph Ball lives in England and has been involved in political activism and trade union activism for twenty years
Yeah, that's not a commie propagandist at all.

>The point is that 78 million dead number is not true
In the Great Leap Forward alone maybe, but in his tenure it's easily true.

Except it's not. In fact, it's probably exaggerated for the Axis side. There were no genocidal policies against Germans or the Japanese.

The point is they already had Axis war crimes in doing the exact thing you describe to justify their own.

>Free speech is a meme
HE SAYS WHILE FREELY SPEAKING ON A MONGOLIAN PAPER FOLDING WEBSITE

Go fucking kill yourself you giant fucking hypocrite.

>Strategic bombing
>War crime in WW2

It was common tactic.

>le Gommie propaganda!
>avoids the exhaustive primary and secondary source documentation to corroborate the article
>doesn't engage with the evidence or facts

Hmmm

He ignores mountains of primary source evidence and handwaves it away as capitalist propaganda. It's quite fair to do the same since he uses official PRC sources which we all know are Fair and Balanced.

I'm a smug self righteous liberal piece of shit haha these holocaust deniers really are stupid haha who listens to /pol/ any its for stormfags haha conspiracy theorists are idiots anyway

>I'm a massive stormnigger who thinks is being clever, please rape my face

So, Holocaust believers of Veeky Forums. What do you think of Cole's documentary? I find it very convincing.

So you'll reject or heavily scrutinize sources from socialist country censuses and production data because that's "Gommie propaganda" while accepting without question the numbers that capitalist states and pro-capitalist academics (who have an inherent material incentive to lie about these topics in order to continue to ride the parasitic gravy train where the capitalist classes monopolizes the wealth created by the working class and attacks any country that dares to refuse to be a slave to the West, like Syria or Libya or Iraq or Iran or DPRK etc, ans chooses instead to be socialist or economic nationalist) pull out of their ass or heavily distort while avoiding evidence that contradicts their pre-existing class interests.

K

Why do leftists always gravitate to sexual degradation? It's like the first thing they say, every time

You're wrong [insert dehumanizing pornographic insinuation or insult] hahaha

kind of hypocritical... The right didn't have anything like that until this recent "cuck" bullshit. But the left has been obsessed with the right's penises and sexuality since the 60's.

So Russian civilians killed by their own governments count as allied deaths, then?

>he thinks ">I'm X, please rape my face" is a lefty thing and not just a Veeky Forums meme

How new are you?

Go suck a dick you political flag waving wanker.

>hello fellow oldfaggots i am not new and did not come straight from reddit to Veeky Forums
fuck off

Why would Stalin kill their own people during WW2? Most deaths are clearly from the actions of the Germans and their allies.

wasnt that guy a spy?

how could no one notice his deceiving ears? he has elf ears ffs. id get him executed right when i saw him.

What are you talking about?

He's a /pol/tard, so can't be more than 2 years

>stab a dude in a boxing match
>dude grabs knife that someone threw into the ring
>stabs the dude who stabbed him
>"WOW that's pretty fucked up dude, i can't believe that you could even possibly do that!"
Brill.

>liberal

It's hillarious considering holocaust deniers almost always defend themselves by liberal morality.