Was OT God just fucking with Abraham for shits n giggles?

source: Freud "its cuz you want to fug ur mum lel" Sigmund (((Schlomo)))

God said Abraham that He would provide
It was a test of faith

>even slightly being a real character

I bet abraham still thought about killing the kid for just in case.

>at any time nearing the fictional world

Why would god need to test Abraham's fate if he is the arbiter of all things, including the preordained results of Abraham's test of fate.

>at any point being real

>Yahweh was only kidding guys!!!
>Yahweh wouldn't do that!!!!
>Yahweh makes Jephthah sacrifice his daughter

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness

>The existence of God means there's no free will
t. Calvinist

>Yawheh makes Jephthah sacrifice his daughter
My man, the entire point of that story was that Jephthah was reckless, it was his own choice to announce that sacrifice

>existing at all in the fiction section

lrn 2 Newcomb

Within the Biblical narrative, pretty much everything God put Abraham through led up to the whole promise about his spawning the Hebrew people. Gotta put a guy through the crucible before he's actually worthy of that.

>at all being a historical being

Every bad thing that happened to him was his fault because he was too impatient to trust God.

>silly Jephthah!

>ever being listed as a fictional being

>being more real than Santa

>being less real than the HRE

Hahahahahahah.

Touche, user.

Voltaire pls!

cheers mate have a good week

I don't get why people use the Binding of Isaac as an example of how evil God is. To me, it seems to be an example of how God is merciful to the devout.

God told Abraham to sacrifice his son. That's all the information Abraham had. But he was so devout that he was willing to go through with it. Of course, God could have let him go through with the sacrifice, but after Abraham had shown that he was willing to do anything for him, he stopped him.

Of course, God knew he would do it, so the story is for humanity. It is a display of how things will be good for you if you are obedient to the lord.

A truly malevolent God would have told him to kill Isaac and let him go through with it just because it was a command. But Abraham's God only wanted to give a demonstration of faith.

No he made a deal with God you Christtard, so it was God's choice too. And as if that excuses God allowing a girl to be murdered.

yeah but he also had him cut up his dick, his baby son's dick, and the dick of every man in his household forever more

i mean God had to be just taking the piss at that point

Pretty much this. People give God shit for stuff he did in the Old Testament while ignoring that he always fulfilled his end of the bargain. Guy was all about keeping promises. It's only when the other party tried to shortchange him or acted like retards/assholes that things got bad for them. No one forced these people to make covenants with God, and if they wanted out he let them out. But that also meant he was out too, and there were consequences to that.

>It was God's choice
At no point in the story is God involved. He didn't make a judgment against Jephthah
>And as if that excuses God allowing a girl to be murdered.
So he was supposed to let Jephthah get away with his rash vow? Are you stupid?

Then how did Jephthah wipeout the Amalacites? It was a real bargain you nitwit.

>merciful
Nah. You cant be merciful to someone when you are the one literally telling him to do shit

well child sacrifice is part of their canaanite religious heritage. of course they have a story where a god praises a man for not withholding his son from him. for more child sacrifice just turn to Judges for Jephthah. Jeremiah has to deny that Yahweh asked for these sacrifices, which implies that there were people who thought Yahweh did. For people who thought this you just have to go over to Ezekiel, who said that Yahweh did order a sacrifice of the first born, but he did it as a punishment

How is it possible to be merciful if you're not in a position of power over someone?

The Muslims are right on that bit; God is merciful in that he even allows us to live and go about our lives. We are his creation, and thus he can do what he pleases with us.

it's not whether you are in a position of power that's the problem, it's that he is putting Abraham in that position. It's truly disgusting that being willing to sacrifice a child, let alone your own son, is a virtue, even if your god doesn't require you to follow through.

Abraham knew God wasn't going to go through with it. The test of faith was for Isaac, not Abraham.

point to where this is in the text. it's not there. this apologetics exists solely because it is distasteful to modern readers. this is the same reason that rabbinic commentators came up with the idea that Jephthah didn't actually sacrifice his daughter

People don't care about cross-examination, historical precedents and proper academia here. Every thread, sooner or later is brigaded by either LARPers or real blind Christians who doesn't understand constructive criticism. Anything against "Western" Biblical scripture (which by the way is proven to be very inaccurate translation) and - "hurr-durr you're satanist atheist" or "Pseudoscientific facts [Yeah! It went there.]". Provide facts and the banter is circumnavigated, almost as if thread exists only for controversy and useless lengthening of thread. You start a proper thread, specifying that it is a historical not theological but the difference doesn't seem to be clear. Real-life and Online, I can't seem to properly discuss facts with these guys.

Exactly! Many uncomfortable histories from within the OT is glossed over - "But they were evil", the more contradictory the nature of Yahweh the more "God works in mysterious ways" [A line which isn't even Biblical". And in the end, "Well it doesn't matter, Christ died for our sins so it is all gone now." [Nicely dusted under the rag]

So you're telling me that God was supposed to not let the vow be fullfilled and let Jephthah get away with his rash vow? You're clinically retarded if you think so.

wtf i love god now

desu I'd more readily believe in & love a God that is a prankster and fucks with people for laughs than a stuck up jealous God like the Abrahamic God.

>Jephthah's daughter had die because Jephthah made the tiny mistake of making a vow with a vague wording
I hope you aren't the same user saying that God releasing Abraham from the need to sacrifice Isaac was an act of mercy. surely such a merciful God could similarly release jephthah from this problem with a ram too, or better yet make sure his daughter didn't come out first?

>vague wording
Nigga, Jhepthah knew himself what he was getting into, it was only after the battle that he realized how much he fucked up and was waiting for the dog to be the first one to receive him.

God allows evil to happen because it allows a greater good in the long run. The greater good that was allowed by Jhepthah realizing his retarded vow was that the Israelites would get away from making human sacrifices still common in the nearby populations.

also, God didn't order Jhepthah to make any sacrifice like he did with Abraham. It was of Jhepthah own volition that he did the rash vow. If Jhepthah was a little less retarded about his words he wouldn't have made that mistake.

oh please, it is quite clear that he didn't expect his daughter to come out of the tent first, he didn't promise specifically his daughter. furthermore why should she be punished for his mistake? Oh, a good time to remember that is actually in the scripture and in Christian doctrine that children are responsible for the sins of their fathers. see original sin and Num 14:18:
>‘The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’

No matter what apologetics you apply YHWH is a sick fuck

If you start looking at that part of the bible as desert sagas written by a tribal confederation in the early iron age, everything will be clearer to you.
It's just a window into that age and the cruel ways of early humans.
t. jew who actually reads this staff in original language

>YHWH is a sick fuck
Only if
1. You apply modern morality to it
and
2. You dare to apply YOUR morality to the Lord itself.

It's God's mercy that He allows us to exist. Even the smallest sin is a deep offense to God because He's infinitely perfect - any sin therefore is infinitely imperfect and an infinite offense. Yet he's still loving and released us from Death with the sacrifice of Jesus.

Oh hear it comes, Christians once again prove that they are moral relativists themselves. The only morality that you can apply to justify all of YHWH's actions and commands for others including but not limited to genocide down to the very last canaanite baby is Divine command morality, which is no absolute morality. for there to be an absolute morality it must be true at all times. divine command theory comes down to might makes right, YHWH is the strongest therefore what he says to do is always moral. there is no backbone to it, it simply is up to his whims. this is a truly abhorrent moral system. Even if I were to withhold all moral judgement, which as a human is near impossible to do as it is in my nature, I still would want nothing to do with this god. I wouldn't want to call someone with such little regard for all of humanity my Father, let alone have any form of relationship with him beyond groveling at his feet for personal gain.

I'm so jealous. I've always wanted to read the hebrew but I'm too lazy to take the effort to learn it

>They plagiarized the fuck out of Egypt and Babylon mythology, and made up the stories to suit their chosen people narrative.
You understand that having your own national god was the norm until the romans decided to plugerize the fuck out of Judaism to make it global (which is not surprising given the fact that they plagarized Hellenism before that.

Put in proper context the story has to aims:
>we are not less devout than those neighboring cultists that are ready to sacrifice their children to Molech
>It's just that our god doesn't require it (and even bans it)
But in modern context where child/human sacrifice was eradicated, in a large part due to both Hellenistic and Judean traditions taking over, what was a counter measure story aimed against human sacrifice now seems cruel and stupid just for mentioning the possibility of it.
That kind of out of context reading of historic texts is the definition of stupidity.

THIS
H
I
S

I tried to express it at my previous post but I'm not so good with words

having your own national god and worshiping no others was not the norm. Judaism had already moved in the direction of Yahweh being the only god and creator of the world long before christianity and Judaism actually sought out converts before it became impossible when the state religion of nearly every country where there were jews became either christianity or islam, which didn't allow proselytizing by other religions

It's has a real poetic ring to it and multiple meanings. It also has all kinds of concealed reading styles that were practiced by the priests that written it but it is now mainly lost and all we are left with is guesswork.

the binding of Isaac is not anti-child sacrifice, in fact it praises that level of dedication. Yahweh giving Abraham a ram instead on one occasion does not count as a ban on the practice. certainly the other mentions of Jephthah (in it's final form at least), Jeremiah and Ezekiel are against the practice. Also, the point of my post was not to make any judgement on this, just to point out that the OT shows roots in a religious tradition that did allow for child sacrifice.

>having your own national god and worshiping no others was not the norm.
You just added "worshiping no other" and changed the meaning of your post completely. It was very usual to have your own god and an ethos by which YOUR people are the special snowflake very best descendants of god or whatever. Worshiping no other god had developed gradually and in accordance with geopolitical needs.
If you are an Empire you would indulge the locals and let them believe in their thing but it doesn't mean that you think that your god that defeated them is worth as much a their defeated god (and you probably not even think their god exists).

Babylonian pantheon, Greek pantheon, Cnaanite pantheon, Egyptian pantheon are all national, every fucking city had it's own god.
>Judaism actually sought out converts before it became impossible when the state religion of nearly every country where there were jews became either christianity or islam, which didn't allow proselytizing by other religions
This happened way before that when Judaism became persecuted following the Judeo-Roman wars. Way before Islam came to exist and Christianity became prominent.
Also, this only proves that as the understanding of god as universal grew, so does the understanding that his religion should be spread and others included which is contrary to your claim of chosen people. If you want others to join the chosen, how are they exclusive?

>the binding of Isaac is not anti-child sacrifice in fact it praises that level of dedication.
I have already accounted for that in my post. Praising this level of dedication and being against it, is exactly the point of the story since it's supposed to counter this kind of practices without looking less devout.

The sacrifice was a story about the transition from paganism (in this case Canaanite paganism) to monotheism.

In the pagan world, the sacrifice of the first born was considered fairly normal, as you were supposed to give back when the gods gifted you with something. In the Abrahamic tradition, Abraham not sacrificing his son represents the realization of the brutality of this practice, and a slow shift from the divine as most strong to the divine as most merciful

The OT doesn't really come across as all that merciful, but that is also a refelction of the times they were living in. Moral progress is a slow and often painful affair, with all sorts of setbacks

>Wahhh I'm a weak, little baby that chooses to find fault with my understanding of "might makes right" and that makes me superior somehow
Lmao dude stop embarrassing yourself

Paganism doesn't presuppose human sacrifice and monotheism doesn't presuppose it's absence. .

>t. Freud

1. YHWH IS NOT GOD; YHWH IS A DJINNI/DEMON.

2. NO; YHWH WAS TESTING ABRAHAM'S OBEDIENCE.

Blasphemy. You're going to hell, Achmed.
Allah = Devil/Satan/Lucifer the Deceiver and Destroyer.

YHWH = Yahweh = Jehovah = Jesus.
I Am
The Most High
The Everlasting One
The Alpha and Omega
The Lord of Hosts
The Ancient of Days
The Creator of the Universe
The God of the Bible
The Loving Father
The Son of God